Sparky Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 You hear a lot about reducing the weight of your slide, especially in a full profile slide (I'm referring to a STI/SVI). Is it really necessary and what are the advantages? Is it better to have a standard frame and slide? Thanks - Sparky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmark Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 I'm no expert on the matter, but are you trying to speed up the cycling of the action, or trying to reduce recoil? I have lightened one slide, on my Para-Ord open gun. 4- .375" chamfered popple holes per side. I was trying to get the gun to cycle faster. It was the best modification I ever did on any of my guns. It made a world of difference in cycling time. The gun settled quicker, and faster follow up shots were way easier. However, it is possible to get a gun to cycle too fast. I felt no difference in the amount of recoil, but the type of recoil changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberkid Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 Id sorta have to agree with Madmark. I recently had my .38 super Kimber lightened quite a bit, for no other reason than I wanted to try it. The gun now seems way way quicker. The recoil feels much less, though that may be because now it comes straight back and shoots very flat, whereas it used to be much more up and and down. The downside is that I will no longer shoot anything hotter than maybe 135 or 140 pf in it due to the amount of metal that was removed. However, seeing some of Benny Hill's Fat Free line makes it obvious that you can lose a lot of wieght and still have strength. Now that I have 1 light slide, I dont think I'll ever have another full wieght slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 I think the main advantage is that it changes the feel of the gun.. It will make the slide cycle quicker, thus probably a snappier feel that when set up properly will feel flatter, quicker, dot settles quicker..etc.. it is possible to make a slide too light..as the cycle of the slide and the timing of the magazine to feed rounds is pretty important relation... also it is possible to take metal from the wrong places...thus making a slide weak and prone to cracking. somewhere is a thread where I think the ideal slide weight was given.. It probably isn't a necessary modification...as guns had metal on them for many years and they functioned just fine... a lot will depend on what feel you like and with what type of gun do you shoot best, and at what level do you shoot.. the most important thing to remember to doing well..is a gun that is reliable and accurate and a shooter that is consistent and efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 The biggest danger I found in going to lighter slide was the amplification of "pilot induced oscillations" at the front of the gun. Any imperfection in your techique gets amplified as the mass goes down. I found the lighter slide demanded more finesse. I also thought trade off was worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 If you get the slide to lite, you will not get the barrel to stay in battery long enough. Per-mature unlocking will peen the top lugs down & ruin the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Benny can you compensate by using a more square FP stop or stronger hammer spring? Or by doing the "compensation" you've already negated the "benefits" of the lightening? I recently had my slide lightened. I have yet to shoot it this week end. Will report back how I felt the changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 For me, a lightened slide produced more (perceived) muzzle flip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Certain features are of no use until you reach the level where you can use them effectively. If you cannot call shots and read the timing of your gun, then all the lightening cuts in the world won't help you. How many times have you seen the long time D shooter buy the latest gadget and it not help one bit? A perfect example of this is my problem with outrunning my gun cycle time, even with a good sight picture. I couldn't always do this. It was when my eyes and shooting got faster that I needed to adjust. Lightening changes the way the slide reacts to rearward and forward motion during the cycle mainly because of reciprocating mass. Timing can be changed with springs and loads, but the mass is still the same as it settles. Lightnening the mass of the moving part makes sense, whether it is a pistol slide, or AR bolt carrier. Now with that said, doesn't it look really awesome when when you see a Brazos, Triangle, Bedell, or xyz gun with geometrically radical cuts in it? Style points for sure, but form follows function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Lightening changes the way the slide reacts to rearward and forward motion during the cycle mainly because of reciprocating mass. Timing can be changed with springs and loads, but the mass is still the same as it settles. Lightnening the mass of the moving part makes sense, whether it is a pistol slide, or AR bolt carrier.Now with that said, doesn't it look really awesome when when you see a Brazos, Triangle, Bedell, or xyz gun with geometrically radical cuts in it? Style points for sure, but form follows function. Excesive lightening can have the effect of when the slide comes forward it doesn't have the force to come back on target as quickly for me. That is the most important thing for me, how the gun returns to the target. I use a setup that cycles slower than most setup, but it is smother returning to target than a violent lighter gun, which some prefer. For me the smoother the gun shoots, the more relaxed I shoot it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Benny, How can one tell if the gun is unlocking prematurely? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 The biggest advantage to me using a lighter gun was the way the gun tracked. Shaving a couple hundredths off of a split on a target was not that important to me. The advantage I found was tracking between targets. I could get the gun swinging and stopped faster. I was shaving several hundreds to a tenth off my target to target transitions. I have a fairly light gun but nothing radical. Short dust cover, stirrup cut slide, bushing barrel and EGW lightening cuts. The gun returns perfect for me with a 12.5 lb ISMI recoil spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulm540 Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Benny,How can one tell if the gun is unlocking prematurely? Thanks in advance. tear drop marks on your primer. firing pin dragging against primer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulm540 Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 opps , sorry I didn't realize that your question was addressed to Benny. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 bulm5, thanks for answering. I have seen that before on several guns, does any teardrop primer hit mean this is the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulm540 Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 From what my local gunsmith said , yes but I am no gunsmith maybe Benny could chime in on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Tear drop marks on the primer means the slide is unlocking to fast and/or weak f.p. spring. Fitting of the barrel can effect this also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 FYI FWIW, I just measured my stock Edge slide stripped against a Bedell Spitfire slide stripped, and the difference is about 1oz. or 20g. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Shot my newly lightened slide last weekend. There is a noticeable change in the recoil impulse, the gun now shoots really soft. And that's even after I shot only 9mm while the gun was with the smith. It's really soft that I'm doubting if my old loads are still making major (they usually run above 175PF). I'll chrono them this weekend to take this variable out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Benny,How can one tell if the gun is unlocking prematurely? Thanks in advance. This is interesting... what happens when the slide unlocks prematurely and what causes this? Long term and short term damage we should look for? Much thanks.. this got me thinking... Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulm540 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 When you run a lite slide, you usually run a lite recoil spring also. This will not hold the slide in battery long enough. The gun is recoil orp. Light stuff will not stay in battery as long as heavy stuff. The slide will still have pressure against it & when unlocking will roll the top lugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Thanks Benny... I run a light slide with a light recoil master... on my primers (38super), I normally see the firing pin indentation with another very little indentation right next to it on my shells. The thread made me think... I have a limcat extended firing pin. I'll try and switch out the firing pin spring with a stronger one. See if this fixes it. What's the best solution to this problem? Is it a barrel fit issue? Thanks & Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chp5 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Benny lightened the slide on my Edge. It made the gun feel flatter and lighter, with no premature unlocking. The trick is to get a knowledgable gunsmith to do the work and not just have a local garage smith start milling off metal from your slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Years ago when a few people were trying to hang on to .45 open guns a friend of mine built a para with a cut down caspian slide( something like 9oz). Running major loads with 155s at the old power factor the thing cut the lugs out of the slide and ruined the barrel in less than 200 rds. You can get too light.---Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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