Whoops! Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 (edited) LAX airport police officers setup random checkpoints at the main road entrances to the airport. They will have random cars pull over and do searches of them. They randomly pulled me over on Century Blvd. I completely cooperated until the police officer asked me to open the trunk. I said "I'm sorry sir, I'm not willing to allow my car to be unconstitutionally searched. You guys are welcome to look through the windows." He said I had to let them search the vehicle. I asked, is there any law which requires me to allow you to unconstitutionally search my vehicle? He said, TSA policy requires the search. I asked again, is there any law? He again said, TSA policy. He did not work for the TSA. This was not a regularly established TSA security checkpoint, it was operated by airport police. He would not let me use century blvd in order to get to my job at the airport until I allowed them to search the vehicle. I had less of an issue with it when he gave me the option to have the search and continue, or be escorted around and leave the vicinity of the airport without a search. Keep in mind, this is in a state where having a loaded handgun in a locked container in the trunk of your vehicle will send you to jail. If the handgun is unregistered because, as an example, you moved here from a state without registration and no one ever informed you registration was required, a loaded handgun will send you to prison and you will lose your chance of leading a good life as a proper American or properly supporting your family. That being said, the car was empty. They searched it and I continued to my job at the airport. I have read of other instances where people were arrested at this checkpoint for having firearms in their vehicles. At what point did forced vehicle searches on public roadways become legal in America without any "reasonable suspicion" or "due cause"? Edited January 1, 2014 by Whoops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glocktogo Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 This is not current TSA policy. The officer lied to you (which is legal btw). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 LAX airport police officers setup random checkpoints at the main road entrances to the airport. They will have random cars pull over and do searches of them. They randomly pulled me over on Century Blvd. I completely cooperated until the police officer asked me to open the trunk. I said "I'm sorry sir, I'm not willing to allow my car to be unconstitutionally searched. You guys are welcome to look through the windows." He said I had to let them search the vehicle. I asked, is there any law which requires me to allow you to unconstitutionally search my vehicle? He said, TSA policy requires the search. I asked again, is there any law? He again said, TSA policy. He did not work for the TSA. This was not a regularly established TSA security checkpoint, it was operated by airport police. He would not let me use century blvd in order to get to my job at the airport until I allowed them to search the vehicle. I had less of an issue with it when he gave me the option to have the search and continue, or be escorted around and leave the vicinity of the airport without a search. Keep in mind, this is in a state where having a loaded handgun in a locked container in the trunk of your vehicle will send you to jail. If the handgun is unregistered because, as an example, you moved here from a state without registration and no one ever informed you registration was required, a loaded handgun will send you to prison and you will lose your chance of leading a good life as a proper American or properly supporting your family. That being said, the car was empty. They searched it and I continued to my job at the airport. I have read of other instances where people were arrested at this checkpoint for having firearms in their vehicles. At what point did forced vehicle searches on public roadways become legal in America without any "reasonable suspicion" or "due cause"? At the point where mayors of cities decided it was legal for cops to stop and search random people walking down the sidewalk without any probably cause. In case you didn't notice, the bill of rights got shredded right after 9/11 and it will take a while to get those rights back... if ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 This is not current TSA policy. The officer lied to you (which is legal btw). Not just legal.... it's standard operating procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Yea, They created a group more hated than anyone with the TSA. Bunch of pompous jerks without a high scholl ed. Should have opened the trunk and shoved his ars in it and drove away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullauto_Shooter Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 It will continue to be this way until we decide to take back our rights, by any means necessary. Yet another reason why I live in Texas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I knew I liked you for a reason Whoops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoops! Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 This is not current TSA policy. The officer lied to you (which is legal btw). I'm quite aware of the later half of this. I attended an academy at a major police department and know how police work. This was a group of officers . . . the sergeant was the one talking to me. Interestingly, I was wearing multiple airport security badges at the time. My vehicle was also completely empty. Apparently however, the officer may have thought it was necessary to lie to me in order to gain an unconstitutional search of my vehicle. However, also quite possibly not . . . http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/transportation/cars/tsa-claims-it-doesnt-mandate-car-searches-birmingham-airport-parking http://www.flexyourrights.org/faqs/my-rights-at-checkpoints/ Due to this roads proximity to the terminals at the airport, it is quite possible the TSA security plan supports these unconstitutional searches on the roads in the airport proximity. It is also quite possible they believe the public roads are solely airport property and they, as a result, have complete control over them. Regardless of the reasoning, it is wrong in this country and does little to protect the general public, while simultaneously criminalizing a percentage which should not be criminalized and acting as a nuisance to all drivers who have to waste time and fuel to slow down or stop at the checkpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I got stopped arriving at Phoenix Intl (Sky Harbour??) in 2003, some orange alert, as I was arriving to go home after my 2003 Bianchi Trip. So up to the window comes the officer and asks if there is anything he should know about in the car. I went "yes Sir, three handguns and 300 rounds of ammo". That stopped him short. I think he was expecting something else. It did cause a little confusion to say the least. He politely asked me to pull to the side, called 3 of his best friends over to sort it out. I just handed him a folder with all the State Department paperwork in it and my passport. Told them the full story of why I had the guns. They figured out real quick that they wanted me gone and I had a ticket to help with that. He jumped in the car with me, his partner followed, off to the rental return, got to the front of that queue, they put my gear in their car, me in the back (nice and clean thanks) off to the Terminal, they collared a trolley and man to push it, dumped all my gear in that, straight to the front of the queue again, guns checked clear and checked in all the way home. A nice thank you from the guys for being co-operative and I was sitting at the gate within 25 minutes of arriving at the airport. Now I had 2 hours to wait for the plane. Somewhat different these days as you say. Something I learned a long time ago is get their name and number and make an official complaint. Better yet, when you have their name and number, start a law suit. You don't have to follow through, but it will tie them up for days trying to fight off the reporters and local civil liberties group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Somewhat different these days as you say. You can say that again! In '95 coming home from the Pan American Games trials the shuttle dropped me at the airport eight hours before my flight, not wanting my checked bags to sit all day I just kept them with me and hung out at the airport. There I was: alone in the Atlanta airport three guns in my gun case and 5000 rounds of .22 short ammo in my suitcase (a gift from CCI). I was 13 at the time... how things wave changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowrider Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 This is not current TSA policy. The officer lied to you (which is legal btw). ...snipped However, also quite possibly not . . . Due to this roads proximity to the terminals at the airport, it is quite possible the TSA security plan supports these unconstitutional searches on the roads in the airport proximity. It is also quite possible they believe the public roads are solely airport property and they, as a result, have complete control over them. I do land title research for a living, and yes it is possible that that strip of road does in fact belong to the airport. I could dream up several means of conveyance that the city may have used to give it to them. It could also be that some obscure federal regulation (which may or may not have statutory basis) provided it to the airport at the behest of the city. I like gm iprod's suggestion of filing suit, even if you don't follow through though I think that such a suit would go absolutely nowhere in L.A. or any other large PC city. We have to start somewhere. At some point precedent will be set. I'm sooooo glad to be out of that hell hole. And yes as others have stated, this will go on as long as we allow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I have worked at a facility that is listed as some "homeland security port". I have no idea what that means exactly, but this place is vitally important to the US economy. I am sure the rules are different there for 4A issues. I suspect the same is true for LAX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RammerJammer Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 If it makes you feel any better the minimum security club fed "prison" I am currently working at is slam full of TSA agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retarmyaviator Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) Actually that does make me feel a lot better, only hoping there is another similar facility slam full of lawyers. If it makes you feel any better the minimum security club fed "prison" I am currently working at is slam full of TSA agents. Edited January 2, 2014 by retarmyaviator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RammerJammer Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Actually that does make me feel a lot better, only hoping there is another similar facility slam full of lawyers. If it makes you feel any better the minimum security club fed "prison" I am currently working at is slam full of TSA agents. The rest of our population is accountants, lawyers, and half of the Puerto Rican police force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoops! Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 Actually that does make me feel a lot better, only hoping there is another similar facility slam full of lawyers. If it makes you feel any better the minimum security club fed "prison" I am currently working at is slam full of TSA agents. The rest of our population is accountants, lawyers, and half of the Puerto Rican police force. That cracked me up. I am unable to file suit because of the nature of my job and that's pretty much all I can say about it . I just thought I'd share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltdmstr Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) Not sure about the current situation, but similar searches have been done at the direction of TSA. If it's city property, and for many airports that includes access roads, perimeter, etc., they can mandate searches. It's just like having to go through a metal detector and consent to search at a courthouse. As long as you have the ability to opt out (and not enter the premises), it will probably withstand a challenge. As mentioned above, misleading statements and outright lies are SOP for TSA and many cops. Not much you can do about that. Edited January 2, 2014 by ltdmstr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoops! Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) Not sure about the current situation, but similar searches have been done at the direction of TSA. If it's city property, and for many airports that includes access roads, perimeter, etc., they can mandate searches. It's just like having to go through a metal detector and consent to search at a courthouse. As long as you have the ability to opt out (and not enter the premises), it will probably withstand a challenge. As mentioned above, misleading statements and outright lies are SOP for TSA and many cops. Not much you can do about that. This is my thought as well; however, I believe mandated vehicle searches take it to another level, especially when they are done on regular roads with no other forms of protection around them. I could easily use other roads to circumvent the checkpoint and get to the exact same area without the mandated search. Will they start doing mandated vehicle searches in school zones as well? Or the roads going by courthouses? Or the road that goes around the military base? Anyone who intends to break the law on any serious level knows not to go through them. As a result, it criminalizes only those who don't believe they're breaking the law and in reality won't and probably never will hurt anyone - especially in a place like California that makes just about everything illegal. Edited January 2, 2014 by Whoops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltdmstr Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 It's no secret that the feds and cops use the appearance of authority and general public's ignorance of the law to get away with a LOT of stuff that's pretty outrageous. There was a checkpoint setup recently (think it was PA) where local cops were forcing drivers to submit to a swab test with no probable cause. I'm constantly amazed at what the general population is willing to tolerate. There are a lot of sheep out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glocktogo Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 This is not current TSA policy. The officer lied to you (which is legal btw). I'm quite aware of the later half of this. I attended an academy at a major police department and know how police work. This was a group of officers . . . the sergeant was the one talking to me. Interestingly, I was wearing multiple airport security badges at the time. My vehicle was also completely empty. Apparently however, the officer may have thought it was necessary to lie to me in order to gain an unconstitutional search of my vehicle. However, also quite possibly not . . . http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/transportation/cars/tsa-claims-it-doesnt-mandate-car-searches-birmingham-airport-parking http://www.flexyourrights.org/faqs/my-rights-at-checkpoints/ Due to this roads proximity to the terminals at the airport, it is quite possible the TSA security plan supports these unconstitutional searches on the roads in the airport proximity. It is also quite possible they believe the public roads are solely airport property and they, as a result, have complete control over them. Regardless of the reasoning, it is wrong in this country and does little to protect the general public, while simultaneously criminalizing a percentage which should not be criminalized and acting as a nuisance to all drivers who have to waste time and fuel to slow down or stop at the checkpoint. Unless you were entering a Secured Area, the answer is still no on the TSA requirement. TSA does not regulate outside the Sterile/Secured/Air Operations Area unless an NTAS Advisory is in effect. I have worked at a facility that is listed as some "homeland security port". I have no idea what that means exactly, but this place is vitally important to the US economy. I am sure the rules are different there for 4A issues. I suspect the same is true for LAX. You're probably referring to facilities regulated under the Maritime Transportation Security Act of 2002. Airports are covered separately and don't require a TWIC card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltdmstr Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 TSA can't do it, that's why they're relying on the local cops. Several cities have been pressured by TSA to do these searches and have refused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gose Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 LAX airport police officers setup random checkpoints at the main road entrances to the airport. They will have random cars pull over and do searches of them. They randomly pulled me over on Century Blvd. I completely cooperated until the police officer asked me to open the trunk. I said "I'm sorry sir, I'm not willing to allow my car to be unconstitutionally searched. You guys are welcome to look through the windows." He said I had to let them search the vehicle. I asked, is there any law which requires me to allow you to unconstitutionally search my vehicle? He said, TSA policy requires the search. I asked again, is there any law? He again said, TSA policy. He did not work for the TSA. This was not a regularly established TSA security checkpoint, it was operated by airport police. He would not let me use century blvd in order to get to my job at the airport until I allowed them to search the vehicle. I had less of an issue with it when he gave me the option to have the search and continue, or be escorted around and leave the vicinity of the airport without a search. Keep in mind, this is in a state where having a loaded handgun in a locked container in the trunk of your vehicle will send you to jail. If the handgun is unregistered because, as an example, you moved here from a state without registration and no one ever informed you registration was required, a loaded handgun will send you to prison and you will lose your chance of leading a good life as a proper American or properly supporting your family. That being said, the car was empty. They searched it and I continued to my job at the airport. I have read of other instances where people were arrested at this checkpoint for having firearms in their vehicles. At what point did forced vehicle searches on public roadways become legal in America without any "reasonable suspicion" or "due cause"? Havent seen any of those at SFO yet, but I guess it's just matter of time. Not looking forward to that :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I wonder what would happen if like 90% of the people going to the checkpoints told them tostuff it and turned around and drove the other way. The airport might suddenly panic because they realize the stupid searches are hurting their business to gouge people for air fares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Havent seen any of those at SFO yet, but I guess it's just matter of time. Not looking forward to that :/So... lets set up places that stop traffic going in and out of the busiest airport on earth and see if we can back traffic up all the way to the Pacific ocean? What could go wrong with that plan.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckaroo45 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 With Looney Tunes decisions like these it's becoming VERY clear why big government is not in the peoples' best interest. This can be cured at the ballot box. ok, I'm off the soap box ....... Ron Viet Nam Vet NRA Life etc ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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