D__ Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Snake oil? Any negatives? Cost the only reason they are not popular in 3G? Do they last as long as a "fuller" profile barrel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PursuitSS Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 There was a "Group Purchase" of ABS Carbon Fiber wrapped barrels on AR15.com. A lot of issues, long delivery time, the delivered barrels had several issues including accuracy, the wrap shrinking away from the ends so the barrel, poorly rifled, etc. IF I was going to purchase one I would look to Christensen Arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D__ Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 Was looking at Proof Research in Montana as The barrel to try. I shot a night match with one of the guys and he sparked an interest. In a hunting rig for sure I'll go with carbon as an option but was wondering why we don't see it in 3G at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceman2733 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I know with a lot of precision rigs people stay away from them due to heating issues mainly which I would think would be worse with a 3gun AR<br /><br />Sent From Mobile Land<br /><br /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana3gunner Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Sorry, just found this near dead thread...and I'm sorry for resurrecting it, but a few recent updates to the above. D__ you need to come back to our matches, we miss you! I know you saw Greg's 16" carbon, I've been shooting an 18" carbon. I have switched to Proof's carbon barrels in both my AR's and my long range guns, and for the record, I am a member of their Pro Staff Competitive Shooting Team. 1) Top 3 gun shooters are switching to Proof's Carbon Barrels on their AR's. Daniel Horner just switched and won both the 3 Gun Nation finale and the Surefire World Championships. Brian Nelson has now switched and is on the Proof Shooting team. He is reporting very good results with his carbon barrel. We will be announcing more adds to the Proof Shooting Team in the near future, those will be some of the top shooters in the U.S. There is a growing interest from shooters on the 3 Gun Nation series. http://soldiersystems.net/2014/11/10/daniel-horner-wins-3-gun-nation-pro-series-championship-proof-research-carbon-fiber-barrel/ 2) Proof's barrels should last as long as a similar steel barrel, whether you are comparing AR barrels or bolt gun barrels. 3) I haven't noticed POI shifts in any of my barrels (AR, .260 gas gun, 6.5-284, .260 LR gun) with extended strings. I only have one barrel that has shot as well as my carbon fiber barrel and that was one of my JP barrels (the other does not). My Proof barrel will out shoot any of the other AR barrels I've owned, hot or cold, and will shoot with the Bartleins I've owned. I think the expectation is that they should shoot with similar accuracy to the higher quality barrels. If it doesn't, I would bet they would fix it. 4) The real advantage of a carbon fiber AR barrel is that it weighs what a pencil barrel would, but really acts and shoots like a much bigger barrel. This is especially handy if you like a longer barrel (like an 18"), which a lot of shooters are moving to for Outlaw style 3 gun matches or those with longer shots. The rifle length gas system is nice too. 5) I use my carbon fiber barreled AR for all kinds of matches. I shoot it in matches that involve close up shooting, fast shooting, long range shooting, you name it.... I love the light weight. It's fast in and out of transitions. The Seekins brake and JP LMOS carrier/adjustable gas block take care of any recoil. 6) Proof also makes steel barrels. They are the same barrel, minus the carbon wrap, shoot the same. Hope this helps and feel free to shoot me any questions you have. I'm not an employee, or an engineer, but I'll do my best find the answers. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apetrulis01 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Holy cow.....$950 for a barrel puts it out of my price range...I can put together a good AR for that money (with a good barrel). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Just shot the SureFire WMG match this weekend with Brian Nelson and Daniel Horner. Both are running the Proof Research barrels. I know from talking to Brian before the match that he really likes his... a lot. I also talked to Daniel about his and he's a fan as well. Overheard him several times talking about his barrel. Watching him shoot the long range stage, targets out to 500, and missing one shot was pretty impressive. I brought two different uppers to the match, one for the short fast stages and one for the long range, accuracy needed stages. Daniel only had and needed one. Not sure if I'll ever be able to afford one, but they look like high quality barrels and they work very well for 3 Gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana3gunner Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Thanks Chuck, appreciate the clarification and it's consistent with what I'm hearing from both Daniel and Brian so far as well. $950 is a big investment, but many people won't ever burn out an AR barrel, or if they do, it will take them an awfully long time. High quality barrels like JPs will run you around $400-$500. Many of the better barrels have a wait time, and Proof's might be less - not sure right now but that's worth checking. I do think we'll see the price start to come down as they sell more barrels. Again, Proof makes steel barrels too. Not sure what their steel AR barrels run but I would think they would be comparable to a JP/Noveske etc. in both price and accuracy. BTW - I have several thousand rounds through mine right now with no noticeable issues. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Actually I might end up needing a new barrel sooner than I thought anyway. My primary match rifle is about three years old. Took it to the range before the SF match and it was spraying bullets into 9 inches at 300 yards. Need to do a little diagnostics to be sure but I'm pretty sure that barrel is about done. Been fighting it all year. Finally said screw it and took my back up this weekend. Glad I did, it was nice to actually hit the targets without needing 100 rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaZeNuTZ33 Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I've looked at the Proof barrels a few times and had a little more information on them at the beginning of this year. I wasn't surprised to hear Horner was running one after all the info I received on the barrels. The $950 price tag has always kept me away....but honestly, when you start comparing in the world of $3500-5500 custom pistols, $2500 custom shotguns, and rifles that easily push $2500-3000 is anyone really surprised that the best of the best are running a $950 barrel? I'm not sure I'll have the budget for a Proof barrel for 2015, but I'm not prepared to rule it out at this time either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 If it offers better performance than what I'm using, I'm buying it. Yeah, 950 is a lot, but I spend an awful lot going to matches as well. If I can buy a better finish in a match I'm going to. And if it does last longer than what I'm using it might end up a bit cheaper in the long run anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I have not shot a carbon fiber barrel, I don't own a carbon fiber barrel. With that said, 950.00 is going to keep me away from that barrel. I am confident that you will have the rigidity of a bull barrel with a light weight barrel. What I don't see are the weights of the barrels listed. I don't think that you are going to get more life out of one of these barrels then you will with a quality cut rifle barrel like Krieger. you are still burning lots of powder in short order down that throat and I don't think that your going to get an longer life with the carbon fiber wrapping. There are lots of good results coming from the lightweight barrels that are out there and run sub 400 like the Voodoo. For my money I would rather have 3-5 other barrels then I would like to have on 950 barrel. I think your weights will be comparable and accuracy requirements for three gun are not extreme. I would consider it a waste of a good barrel to turn a Krieger down for three gun use, but if I wanted to do so a custom thin profile barrel would be 400-450 out the door ready to install. In the high-power rifle Krieger is the gold standard even though there are many other good cut rifle SS barrels out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troupe Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Mike was ABS Barrels, then he sold to Proof. He moved to Montana and started to work for Proof. The accuracy is like any other barrels, you can get a shooter or you may get one that doesn't shoot well. I have had some personal issues that I will not post about the barrels, but I can say that I had a couple of AR-15 barrels that shot OK. An AR-10 in 7mm-08 that I used to hunt with. If the price would come down to a reasonable price, they may sell better. The carbon wrap will not give extended life on a barrel, since it has nothing to do with the internals. It does give a heavier profile a little less weight. Just remember how much Daniel pays for his barrels, or should I say how much we pay for Daniels barrels. The claimed advantage is just not worth the extra price, but if the barrels were in the 400 range it may be worth considering. Proof is catered to a certain client base, not the average shooter that will win local matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 And oddly enough, I can't think of anyone that uses a Krieger in 3 Gun. I'm sure someone does, just no one I can think of at the top. Having a fast moving but accurate rifle barrel that holds POI/POA for a higher number of rounds is good enough for me. I've heard good things about the light JP barrels, but shooting 30 rounds off quickly then settling in for a 500 yard shot just seems beyonds the capability of a thin barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaZeNuTZ33 Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Light profile barrel doesn't scare me too much for a 3-Gun capacity stage. The ironman stage at Surefire last weekend, my raw time was 154 (I forgot to double tap the pistol steel vs. one hitting them for an added 40sec in penalties ), 2nd fastest raw time behind Horner in TO and 5th-6th compared to Open. My current barrel is a 16.5" rifle gas Voodoo Evo Ultralite barrel.....when I dumped the shotgun, I pulled the rifle, took a step right to hose the paper on the left side of the bay, shot the two paper on the right side of the bay, then shot the spinner before moving on to the long range out to almost 500 without many missed shots at all. I understand what you're saying, I just don't see it being as big of an issue in 3-gun. The Proof barrel would offer similar weight with hopefully a little reassurance on any potential stringing as the barrels heats up, and maybe a little more rigidity in case I accidently have the barrel touching a barricade instead of the handguard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troupe Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Chuck, you just met a Krieger barrel shooter. I now shoot a White Oak and am as happy as the Krieger. I had the ABS/Proof barrels and they will not do any better than any other quality barrel under the circumstances that you just mentioned , no matter the sales pitch. I also have shot Kriegers , Lilja's, and even Schneiders and also have a Saturn that I may turn down. If a shooter can afford the barrel and in his or her mind, they become a more accurate shooter, then the money was well spent. I fell into sales pitch myself and learned from it. The older I get, the more aware I become of the BS levels, not saying that Chuck is BS in any way. It is all in the mind, shoot well and have fun. Well said EaZeNuTZ33. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaZeNuTZ33 Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I may still end up with a Proof barrel at the end of everything, and my Voodoo barrel only has about 5000 rds thru it right now and still shoots great. The added confidence in my head of having some wiggle room if that barrels touches something or gets hot may be enough for me. Hell....I paid to have an SVI sight tracker installed in my 9mm custom STI, because it might be better, but won't be any worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troupe Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 You are on the money, if the mind is convinced, you are that much closer. Wish my wallet could afford them, but I do know what I can get for less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haraise Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I was really pumped about Proof Barrels... then I asked someone who works there what they weigh. I didn't see much of a weight savings, if any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troupe Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Sales Hype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MstngLX50 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I was interested until my buddy was quoted 16 weeks for a Proof barrel. In a world that includes Nordic and JP barrels tomorrow for a quarter and half their price respectively I became way less intrigued and settled in to cautiously optimistic. Negligible weight savings over my current setup and fixing a stringing issue my current barrel doesn't have isn't high up on my list of things to spend money on right now. I think the cost difference spent on ammo will have significantly more effect on scores and placement. That said if they stick around and perform as advertised I'll probably get one some day. At this point, barring exotic metals, it's the only possible way my rifle could be more expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haraise Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Actually, I'm looking back at this... Proof Research does offer very good weight savings... but it's better in a bolt gun (steel in the middle for the gas block), better when longer (the front and rear ends are steel) , and better when thicker (more percentage of carbon fiber). If we're talking 6.5 Grendel (what I'm most interested in) as a baseline... A 20" heavy (.875" diameter) barrel from Proof weighs what an 18" MEDIUM profile FLUTED barrel weighs. That's a pretty good savings. If I were going with a bolt gun? Hands down Proof. Even in gas that's a good bonus (no fluting-accuracy, longer barrel-better gas system and velocity, heavier profile- accuracy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I just bought a Nordic 18" barrel for my 2nd build. How do you guys rate the Nordic barrels? Just curious as I already have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solidgun Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I just bought a Nordic 18" barrel for my 2nd build. How do you guys rate the Nordic barrels? Just curious as I already have it. They are good mid-range barrels for the price. Great company too. I have been wanting to try Proof Research barrels for a while to try to create a lighter barrel. However, I am more concerned about sustained accuracy and have had accuracy issues with Christiansen Arms rifle. I know Proof Research barrels are designed to be better, but I don't know of heat dissipation effectiveness as my concern is sustained accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haraise Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I just bought a Nordic 18" barrel for my 2nd build. How do you guys rate the Nordic barrels? Just curious as I already have it. They are good mid-range barrels for the price. Great company too. I have been wanting to try Proof Research barrels for a while to try to create a lighter barrel. However, I am more concerned about sustained accuracy and have had accuracy issues with Christiansen Arms rifle. I know Proof Research barrels are designed to be better, but I don't know of heat dissipation effectiveness as my concern is sustained accuracy. What accuracy issues? How many rounds through? What caliber? When was the barrel made? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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