S&W Model SW1911 PC for CDP or ESP

[40S&W]

CDP & ESP slide lightening cuts are illegal per the old & new 2013 rules. S&W says in this video that this particular gun (from the performance center) with slide lightening cuts is legal for IDPA Competition. Watch this video: http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_814072_-1_775654_757900_757896_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

If this is actually the case then slide lightening cuts are legal.

Slide lightening is already legal i.e High Power Cuts (a lot of material removal to remove front cocking serrations and reshape) Flat Top of Slide, or Tri-Top Slide (both require a lot of material removal and lighten the slide).

So my question is, are slide lightening cuts legal or illegal?

[v1911]

Slide lightening is already legal i.e High Power Cuts (a lot of material removal to remove front cocking serrations and reshape) Flat Top of Slide, or Tri-Top Slide (both require a lot of material removal and lighten the slide).

The slide lightening options you stated are considered aesthetics by the IDPA.

Correct me if I'm mistaken but the Glock G34 has a huge hunk of metal milled out on top. Under normal circumstances, that would be considered slide lightening. But because it leaves the factory in that state, it's stock and legal.

I'd be interested to see what the actual weight is from the S&W PC slide. It may still be heavier than a tri-topped 1911 slide with serrations.

[jlamphere]

8.2.2.3.2. Removal of material from the exterior of the slide other than front cocking serrations, tri-top, engraving, carry melts, and high power cuts.

Not sure how to get around the wording of the rule. The fact that the gun comes that way from the factory is a good argument, but not one that I think would prevail. I would be interested to know what the rational for the Glock 34 was when it came out.

[Steve RA]

Don't know anything about a 34, but, when the 17Ls first came out the slot in top of slide was to make it weigh the same as the standard length one. Also, the barrel had a couple of slots in it. Later replacement barrels did not have the slots.

[tiger49931]

I believe what they are referring to is if you take a stock gun and remove more to lighten the slide to help speed the cycle. Most 1911/2011 have cocking serrations/ Lightening cuts in them when they leave the factory. Now you look at a gans open gun or brazos or similiar open race gun they have slide lightening cuts in them. I.E. the removal of material beyond the way it left the factory.

But similar argument goes to the fact they say no competition equipment but the glock 34 is clearly listed as a competition pistol. its semantics. and glock is a great supporter so its ok. Just like when they first said no weighted magazines then someone was caught with a brass base plate that weight more than stock then all of a sudden it was no weighted base pads that weighed more than >>> what ever it was.

Just remember its a game like hockey or football somethings legal and others are not find the rules read them and play within them.

[40S&W]

From my perspective if a factory gun has slide lightening cuts such as those on the slide of the S&W Model SW1911 ( performance center), then I should not be prohibited from having slide cuts on my 1911. Otherwise, it would be an unfair advantage to those using a S&W Model SW1911 .45 ACP in CDP, or for that matter in ESP. As for Glocks, IDPA makes special rules for them, since Glock is one of the owners of IDPA if I am not mistaken. Glock definitely, has very much input into the IDPA rules to make all the Glocks legal (special rules) so they can be shot.

[v1911]

Looks to be a traditional round top slide with no front cocking serrations. I'd wager that it doesn't weigh any less than a tri-top slide with carry cuts. Hence, no mechanical advantage.

[40S&W]

Looks to be a traditional round top slide with no front cocking serrations. I'd wager that it doesn't weigh any less than a tri-top slide with carry cuts. Hence, no mechanical advantage.

Where does it say in the 2013 rules or earlier rules that carry cutouts are legal on a slide? Would have to assume any gun that is being used in IDPA is legal?

[v1911]

Carry cuts aren't much different than high power cuts and are considered aesthetic.

IDPA legal 2011 built by Gans Guns.

[lc2hl]

Maybe I'll ask at the town hall meeting the night before Nationals.

[cyberiad]

As for Glocks, IDPA makes special rules for them, since Glock is one of the owners of IDPA..... Glock definitely, has very much input into the IDPA rules to make all the Glocks legal (special rules) so they can be shot.

Neither of these statements is correct.

[Jim Watson]

That is in the same vein as the common claim that Bill Wilson writes IDPA rules to sell Wilson guns.

He makes numerous models and variations not allowed in "his own game."

And he shot a Beretta the first year to show he was not just advertising his wares.

[Bones]

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Edited September 17, 2013 by Bones

[dafdov368]

Its always seemed unclear to me how the Glock 34/35's have been legal with those coffin cuts and how they're marketed as "competition" pistols. Makes me look like this ----->

[Joe A]

Found this older topic while searching something else.

I wanted to reply that the SW1911PC with cuts in the slide is IDPA legal. I sent that question to Robert Ray and included a photo of the round butt commander-sized model. If you look for the most recent update to the rules book, section 8.2.3.3.2 it shows this gun and states it's legal.

Tried to attach a link to the rule but don't have enough posts so you'll have to look it up.

[Craig N]

It's good to be Smith and Wesson and get a gun deemed legal right before the big S&W match.

[awfaxis]

I bought the SW 1911PC last year, and ran it a couple times in IDPA. I was told by an SO that it was not legal. I asked for clarification last year, and in this years 1st qtr clarifications, I was able to dust it off for some work.

The criteria as stated below is the production numbers. Similar reasons for the Glocks.