FN SLP Mark 1 (new): Jam Nightmare, 1 Bronze Piston

[compulsion1984]

Sierra77 and Perry you captured my thoughts exactly. I feel lied to. If there was a disclosure on their website, then all is fair. If they said they might not work then I would be venturing into dangerous waters knowingly, not buying a ~$1100 gun that performs worse than my $300 870. However, when information that common ammo won't work is not mentioned explicitly it's a pretty shady move.

I understand that long stages are demanding in hot dirty environments, but when I load 9 into a cold gun and it jams several times I'm not abusing it. I should be able to shoot a tube without jams period. I'm afraid of what's going to happen when I DO abuse it in a 3 gun event.

One of the reasons I wrote so much here is to try and help people who are considering buying this thing. I was under the impression that after a good cleaning and oiling it was flawless out of the box with all shells based on most other posts. I would have rather paid more for a gun that #@#&ing shoots from a company that isn't rude to me.

[HadleyOwens]

Has anyone at FNH asked you to send the gun in for testing?

Hadley O.

[perrysho]

Mr Hadley O,

I got the feeling that FN didn't want to talk to customers.

Answer NO !

I tried to be nice, thanked them for their time and hung - up the phone.

Perry Shockley

PS - Here's kinda the way I see this, legal action is out, Great White Shark Lawyers want $500 retainer fee then time and expenses on top of that. Will eat up several $1000 Shotguns quickly. FN knows this, therefore is gonna sit there quiet as a church house mouse and discorage Phone Calls.

If you have a thick wallet and go legal, Your gonna run smack into all Hard Core REPUB Judges. LOL Not enough Liberal Demos in Tennessee to fill a Blue Bird School Bus. Now we're back to that dead horse. Hillbilly Opinion !

Edited September 8, 2013 by perrysho

[compulsion1984]

I didn't bring it up (return for repair) with FN. If I still have issues after running the high velocity stuff I'll send it in. The 2 customer / tech support people I talked to offered no knowledge or troubleshooting, just rudely answered questions. They didn't say, did you try A B or C? I would hope they would take the gun back for warranty, but based on their responses so far I am strongly concerned they will shoot hi brass through it, say it's fine and only meant for that, and send it back unchanged.

[HadleyOwens]

I understand your frustrations..I was there at one point myself. It took me a couple months of trial and error to get the right combo of things down in my gun to get it to work flawlessy. And it does...I realize that at this point it may sound unbelievable but its true. All of the advice I have offered above is what works...no ifs and or buts....it works. If you need anymore help feel free to call or message me.

870-926-5401

Thanks, Hadley O.

[compulsion1984]

Another update. Left the action locked back for 10 or 11 more days. Did a thorough cleaning and re-oiled. I very lightly oiled the inside contact portions of the piston and used Slip 2000 EWL 30 on moving receiver rails / bolt parts.

Went to the range again. I started off by shooting and patterning slugs with a Briley light modified extended choke. I shot 15 1500-1600fps Winchester bulk 2 ¾ slugs, 5 magnum Remington 2 ¾ slugs, 5 1560fps Remington regular slugs 2 ¾ slugs, and 5 reduced recoil win lites. The regular Remingtons and win lites patterned the best. The win lites cycled and felt very light on my sore shoulder (since I shot those last).

I let the gun cool, then moved onto the regular shotgun range with a wider variety of ammo. The results worst to best:

• Win AA super sport sporting clays 2.75, 1350, 1 oz, #7.5: 13/25 fail, 52% failure
• Federal cheapo multi purpose 2.75, 3 dram, 1 1/8, #7.5 1200: 6/25 fail, 24% failure. (Previously I had 6.7% failure).
• Remington Premier nitro sporting clays 2.75, 1300fps, 1 1/8oz, #7.5, exceeds ATA velocity limits: 1/25 fail, 4% failure. The extra velocity made little / no recoil difference.
• Fiocchi Helice nickel plates 2.75, 1350fps, 1 1/4oz, #7.5: 0/25 fail, 0% failure. This stuff was hot and made follow up shots difficult. These shells had a “deep” crimp that hung up slightly when loading.

As you can see the faster Nitro sporting clays and hotter Fiocchi worked well. I’ve got a few others I’m going to try soon. I was hoping after locking the thing open for a couple of weeks, shooting slugs, and shooting heavy loads it would work better.

The higher fail rate with cheap federal leaves me to believe the thick viscosity of the Slip 2000 EWL 30 is detrimental in the receiver, I’m going to try regular EWL from now on. The thickness may be slowing parts down rather than lubricating as desired. I’m going to (sigh) thoroughly clean the gun again, oil it the same way with the thinner slip 2000, and go shooting again later this week. I have more 1 1/4oz loads to try. I didn’t want to shoot any more today because the gun was incredibly hot by the time I finished. My shoulder also has a nasty looking bruise.

On a side note. Mechanixs covert gloves work great (with the load 2 method) on my left hand since I grab the barrel. I tried the vented and non-vented. The vented felt better (less stagnant and sweaty) at first, but after shooting 60-75 the glove became uncomfortably hot and I went back to the regular coverts. I imagine the vented will work the vast majority of the time in actual competition since stages aren’t 50+ rounds.

In case anyone is still reading this. For the people who still have stock lifters / remember how the originals looked. Is the left fork of the lifter shorter than the right (when looking from below)? Mine is noticeably shorter, maybe 1/8" or 3/16".

Edited September 16, 2013 by compulsion1984

[Shadowrider]

I don't remember which side was shorter, but yea the lifter points weren't even in mine. Dropping the trigger group revealed that the thing looked downright medieval too! Some engineer did that on purpose, I just know it.

Hope you get yours running. I did the storing it with the bolt locked open thing and shot 25 00 buck rounds and 25 slugs through mine right off the bat. Mine runs 1 1/8 oz 3 dram loads with the red piston. You do need to watch the crimps on cheapo shells. I don't even bother with anything Winchester unless it's AA. The cheap walmart federal bulk works fine but stay with the heaviest shot charge you can find. I'm running mostly Estate now because I and the gun likes their crimp better. Good luck.

[MetropolisLake]

I've got one and had some of the same problems, but after at least 3 years it's finally reliable with softer loads. I never knew to lock the bolt back for a long time, I should have done that. In the meantime anytime I wanted to shoot I just used high velocity game loads. That stuff cycles great but recoil is a little higher.

It became my turkey hunting gun last year. It would be a great turkey gun but the dowel rod to make the tube legal is insanely large. Took it squirrel hunting too but unfortunately the finish scratches much easier than it looks once you get in thick woods.

Biggest continuing problem is that anytime I shoot slugs with the light piston, I shoot way to the right. That baffles me. I can pattern it on paper and my point of aim is perfect. I can shoot a slug at 10 yards away and I'm 8" off or more. How am I supposed to hit a silhouette target at 50-60 yards like that?

Mine also prevents me from using the load 2 method just as described here. I don't really want to get into all those modifications like welding the lifter but I may have to. Works fine with weak hand reloads but I still get my thumb eaten sometimes.

[compulsion1984]

Update on my ongoing drama. I received the FN manual in the mail (which I requested). It had a half page printout inserted which talked about the awesome new bronze piston. It states it only works with loads 1 1/4oz and above and that it's, as said before, totally awesome and life changing. I'm pretty sure there were references about it curing terminal diseases.

Anyways, I went shooting yesterday with the intent to get more data to provide for future buyers or anyone who wants to see what shells work well with this bronze piston. Didn't go so well. During load 2 I got my thumb completely trapped and bit by the lifter, which I again can't have welded for 2 months because of upcoming competitions. It was the worst one yet. It was one of those instinctual reactions like touching a hot stove where I tried to pull my thumb back, which made it worse. I had to put the (loaded) shotgun muzzle down on the bench and use my non trapped hand to put the safety on and then dislodge my strong side thumb. I wasn't too pleased about that. Luckily it didn't rip off the nail or cause more than a little bleeding. Boy is it sore though.

I tried Winchester high brass #4 with 1220 or 1250 fps. I don't have the box, but they failed about 50%. All winchester stuff I've shot, including AA, just doesn't work well. The only 90% success shells are still Remington Nitro 1300fps. I shot some more of the trial loads. Remington Heavy dove loads not only cycled badly, but the 6th-7th became lodged in the barrel after firing causing a complete failure. I messed with the bolt, re situated the shell that didn't load and had became ghost loaded, and tried everything I could. Eventually the bolt moved and ripped off the bottom metal part of the case. The plastic shell was still lodged in the barrel / chamber. I didn't have a gun cleaning rod, so that was it for shooting the shotgun yesterday. Luckily it came out easy with a tap or two today. I should change my name to Murphy. More updates to follow next weekend.

I've had several shells stuck in the chamber so far, just not this bad. Is there anything that can specifically done to alleviate this? I'm thinking I might have something wrong there that is causing excess friction and may be amplifying all the failures to cycle. I could try to throw up a picture later if anyone thinks that might help.

Edited September 22, 2013 by compulsion1984

[Heshin]

Try disassembling the gun, removing the stock then installing your bolt and carrier without the handle to see how smoothly it slides back and forth. May have a spot hanging up?

[Vespid_Wasp]

How many ports are there in your barrel where the gas is bled back into the piston. Can you run a pipe cleaner through to confirm that one isn't blocked or perhaps wasn't completely drilled through?

My SLP was finicky for about 200 rounds but then ran great with everything but the lightest loads for many thousands of rounds until I broke a piston spring. (It kept running and I discovered the broken spring while cleaning.)

Replaced the factory piston with a briley stainless piston, and it just runs and runs......

[kurtm]

Wrong topic sorry.

Edited September 23, 2013 by kurtm

[MetropolisLake]

I've had several shells stuck in the chamber so far, just not this bad. Is there anything that can specifically done to alleviate this?

Get a new "light" piston, shoot the hell out of it, and go through a whole bunch of that Remington spray-on shotgun cleaning solvent.

As stated before mine did the same thing. The only thing that is shocking that you mentioned is that high brass #4 going 1250 fps fails 50% of the time. That ain't right but it may be the piston. It ought to be more like 80-90% with the cheap Wal-Mart Federal value packs, with high brass cycling it pretty easily.

[sx2gl35]

Get the SC Piston: MGW

[compulsion1984]

Get the SC Piston: MGW

I ordered that piston yesterday.

I shot a multi gun event in MA on Saturday and had pretty good results. I had the heavy Fiocchi 1 1/4oz 1350 Helice stuff for 90% of the shooting. That stuff is solid with the stupid bronze piston. I ran completely out of the Fiocchi stuff and the last 5-8 shells were the Remington 1300fps nitro. When I broke the last clay of the day the last (rem) shell didn't eject and lock the bolt back. Thankfully I was done and I only had to pull the bolt before abandoning it. I've got the shotgun only match in about 3 weeks. I was about to order more $13/box Fiocchi stuff off Midway, but they wanted about $20 to ship 6-10 boxes. Factored into the per box increased cost ($4 over nitro, ~$6 over federal cheapo) with the shipping this piston will pay for itself in a match and one range trip. I was planning to wait for the FN light piston to show up, but that could be months and I only have 3 weeks.

I've got a ton of data. I blew through a bunch more shells two days ago when I was prepping for the match. More data's better. The Percentages are successful cycling numbers with bronze piston, light Slip 2000 EWL on the 2 smallest ID metal parts of the piston. After I get the new piston I'll clean and lube the gun similarly, then run win AA 1300, Remington nitro, and federal cheapo to compare. When I do the comparisons I'll average in the earlier day's data to get a larger round count.

Shell Brand Shell Model Shot Weight Shot Size Velocity Dram Ribbed? # Failures # Shells Shot Perctentage Cycled

Winchester Super X High Brass 1 1/4 4 1220 - 15 25 40.00%

Winchester Super X Heavy Game Load 1 1/8 6 1255 - 27 32 15.63%

Remington Premier Target Load Nitro 27 1 1/8 8 1235 HDCP 15 25 40.00%

Fiocchi Helice Nickel Plated 1 1/4 7 1/2 1350 - 0 25 100.00%

Federal Field & Target Multi Purpose 1 1/8 7 1/2 1200 3 Light 2 25 92.00%

Winchester Super X Xpert High velocity steel shot 1 1/8 4 1400 Yes 0 25 100.00%

Federal Heavy Field Load (high brass) 1 1/4 5 1220 3 1/4 Light 0 25 100.00%

Remington Premier Nitro Sporting Clays 1 1/8 7 1/2 1300 - None 1 32 96.88%

Fiocchi Spreader 1 1/8 8 1/2 1200 3 1 25 96.00%

Winchester AA Super Sport Sporting Clays 1 1/8 8 1300 - 22 25 12.00%

Edited October 8, 2013 by compulsion1984

[compulsion1984]

I installed the clays piston and shot the gun a bunch. I went to the range 3 times and shot a match yesterday. Tons of data. The gun works the vast majority of the time now. It appears to be flawless with Remington Nitro 1300FPS, I use that for matches. Pretty much anything that's 1 1/8 oz 1200 FPS+ works fine. I will say I don't trust heavy dove loads. I don't know if I got crap boxes, but I had 2 shells rip the bottoms off, one in chamber one in action. It's really amazing that ammo that barely worked before (like AA) works flawlessly now.

If you plan to buy an SLP, include $80-100 to buy the Browning clays piston. I shot some 1 1/4 helice Fiocchi 1350 FPS stuff with the clay piston and the gun bucked pretty hard. I'm a bit afraid to shoot full power slugs through it. I had good results with the few low recoil slugs I had. Until I can buy a lot of slugs in bulk I'll use the bronze piston for full power slugs and if the stages are mixed, I'll use bronze piston w/ helice bird and FP slugs.

1 1/8 oz or less Clay's Piston

Date Shell Brand Shell Model Shot Weight Shot Size Velocity Dram # Failures # Shells Shot Perctentage Cycled

10/26/2013 Winchester AA Super Sport Sporting Clays 1 1/8 8 1300 - 0 50 100.00%

10/26/2013 Federal Ultra clay & Field 1 1/8 6 1255 3 1/4 0 25 100.00%

10/26/2013 Remington Gun Club Target Loads 1 1/8 8 - 2 3/4 1 25 96.00%

10/26/2013 Estate Game and Target Loads 1 6 - 3 1/4 0 25 100.00%

10/26/2013 Remington Gun Club Target Loads 1 1/8 7 1/2 1200 - 0 25 100.00%

10/26/2013 Federal Field & Target Multi Purpose Load 1 1/8 7 1/2 1200 3 1 25 96.00%

10/26/2013 Remington heavy dove 1 1/8 8 1255 - 1 20 95.00%

10/26/2013 Remington Game Loads (rabbit) 1 6 1290 - 0 16 100.00%

10/26/2013 Remington Premier Nitro Sporting Clays 1 1/8 7 1/2 1300 - 0 100 100.00%

10/4/2013 Fiocchi Helice Nickel Plated 1 1/4 7 1/2 1350 - 0 8 100.00%

10/27/2013 Remington Managed Recoil Slugs 1 slug 1200 0 10 100.00%

10/27/2013 Fiocchi Low recoil aero rifled slug, 12LRSL 1 slug 1150 - 0 8 100.00%

I actually enjoy my gun now and it makes the whole purchase sting a bit less. I'm still pissed at FN and their lack of disclosure. I hope my experiences at least help future buyers out so they don't get the same hassle. Ordered a +2 nordic extension for the 3 gun @ Bass River this Sunday. After that, no more shotgun matches and the lifter will get sent to C-Rums for slot cut / weld up. Hopefully that doesn't insert more gremlins into my gun.

I'm running a Briley light modified choke. I think I would like a little more spread. I'm been thinking about IC, maybe even skeet. Should I get / run an IC or a skeet choke? I don't want to buy both. I think my pattern is a tad tight, but I need to be able to knock down steel at typical ranges (<30 ft). If the stage is longer I figure I could go to the LM choke and/or steel shot. I have thought about running Fiocchi spreaders with the LM choke, but I would prefer to be able to use normal bird whenever possible. I do have the IC choke that came with the gun for patterning, I just don't have enough experience to know if the IC will be able to knock down steel at 25-30 ft. I don't have easy access to steel targets.

Edited October 29, 2013 by compulsion1984

[bushmeat]

I actually enjoy my gun now and it makes the whole purchase sting a bit less. I'm still pissed at FN and their lack of disclosure. I hope my experiences at least help future buyers out so they don't get the same hassle. Ordered a +2 nordic extension for the 3 gun @ Bass River this Sunday. After that, no more shotgun matches and the lifter will get sent to C-Rums for slot cut / weld up. Hopefully that doesn't insert more gremlins into my gun.

I'm running a Briley light modified choke. I think I would like a little more spread. I'm been thinking about IC, maybe even skeet. Should I get / run an IC or a skeet choke? I don't want to buy both. I think my pattern is a tad tight, but I need to be able to knock down steel at typical ranges (<30 ft). If the stage is longer I figure I could go to the LM choke and/or steel shot. I have thought about running Fiocchi spreaders with the LM choke, but I would prefer to be able to use normal bird whenever possible. I do have the IC choke that came with the gun for patterning, I just don't have enough experience to know if the IC will be able to knock down steel at 25-30 ft. I don't have easy access to steel targets.

Sounds like your SLP is broken in and the problem was the bronze piston all along.

When I first got my SLP and tried to weakhand load, it bit my thumb. I asked Tommy Thacker about getting the lifter welded and he suggested that if I could refine my loading method or use my strong hand without getting bit, that was preferable over having to deal with the issues a welded lifter would induce in the SLP. I followed his advice and now load two stronghand without problems.

Other buddies who had SLPs didn't. And once they got their welded lifters back, they started having feeding snags. So, they've since gone on to Versamaxes and Benellis.

[sierra77mk]

And once they got their welded lifters back, they started having feeding snags. So, they've since gone on to Versamaxes and Benellis.

That is a concern I had so I just dehorned the fangs with a file and I broke the edges anywhere my fingers touch. It worked for me, mostly. I did have a minor thumb jamb at recent match but no blood or skin removal. I don't know what a stock lifter costs but I suppose you could replace the welded up one if need be.

[The Donald]

And once they got their welded lifters back, they started having feeding snags. So, they've since gone on to Versamaxes and Benellis.

That is a concern I had so I just dehorned the fangs with a file and I broke the edges anywhere my fingers touch. It worked for me, mostly. I did have a minor thumb jamb at recent match but no blood or skin removal. I don't know what a stock lifter costs but I suppose you could replace the welded up one if need be.

Look at the lifter on the Beretta 1301, has a forked lifter but much smaller the the rest of the shotgun. From the factory it is tuned to work out of the gate.

[mngunguy]

And once they got their welded lifters back, they started having feeding snags. So, they've since gone on to Versamaxes and Benellis.

That is a concern I had so I just dehorned the fangs with a file and I broke the edges anywhere my fingers touch. It worked for me, mostly. I did have a minor thumb jamb at recent match but no blood or skin removal. I don't know what a stock lifter costs but I suppose you could replace the welded up one if need be.

Look at the lifter on the Beretta 1301, has a forked lifter but much smaller the the rest of the shotgun. From the factory it is tuned to work out of the gate.

You still get thumb pinch/snag on the 1301 with the lifter. You'll want to weld that, too.

[Rifleshooter24]

Don't weld the lifter if you can stand it. It usually causes feeding issues. My friend had his lifter welded, he now has a benelli. Meanwhile my gun is completely stock with 100% reliability.

As I read your experience, I am truly shocked. I bought the SLP specifically for competitions. I locked the bolt back for a day before I shot it for the first time, oiled it like the manual prescribes, and knock on wood I've never had a malfunction of any kind with that shotgun. It runs everything, and groups slugs well too. Sounds like there's something not right and I would send it back to Fn ASAP. If they don't take care of you, I'd like to know. I always talk about how great FN is and how their shotgun is way better to me than the Benellis my buddies shoot (less recoil, faster cycling, combat gun reliability).

The fact that FN would design a single piston that doesn't cycle light loads is insane when they are so big in the sport of 3 gun. I've had nothing but good experiences with mine, but I received two pistons and run the light piston for competitions. My gun has been so reliable, it would be one of my first guns to reach for in a home defense situation. I can't fathom having all the issues you've had and the company not wanting to help you out.

[SonOfSpartans]

I was reading this thread as I was waiting for my SLP to be delivered. I picked it up yesterday and must say, I was curious to see what my experience would be. I am sorry to hear of your trials. I am not a "shotgun guy" as up to this point, the only shotgun I have ever owned is a H&R single 20 gauge. Had it since I was a kid and still do 30 plus years later. I am a rifle and pistol guy and like you picked this up for 3 gun. I am a mechanic and instructor by trade and specialize in diagnostics (not that it matters much if any, just saying I am very analytical and methodical).

I took the thing home yesterday and cleaned it thoroughly. I treated it with FireClean but wiped the piston down after and left only a film on most parts. The bolt system was a little wet as well as a few other areas because it was cold today and I wanted to shoot in the conditioning. (Heat helps). I had picked up a variety of shells to feed it and to see what would make it puke. I have a picture of what I fed it but I am not able to upload pictures yet. (too much of a newbie yet I suppose). So here is the list.

Winchester AA Black Traacker 2.75" 1145 fps 1 1/8oz. #8 shot

Winchester SupX 2.75 1255 fps 1 1/8oz #6 shot

Estate Dove&Quail 2.75 1255 fps 1 1/8oz #7.5 shot

Estate Super Sport Comp 2.75 1145 fps 1 1/8 oz. #8 shot

Federal Premium Target 2.75 1145 fps 1 1/8oz #7.5 shot

Federal Target 2.75 1180 fps 1.0oz. #8 shot

Winchester AA LR LN 2.75 980 fps 26gram #8 shot

My gun only came with the single piston. I just took it over to a berm at the range to run it. I had one variable for testing that others have not mentioned. I had a second shooter. I have been shooting for decades. I am a 6' guy at about 250 pounds. I also had a newer shooter, female that is half my weight and about 5'2". EVERYTHING except the last box on the list cycled flawlessly........for me. She had issues with a couple of the lighter loads, especially the one OZ load..........AT FIRST. I am talking about failure to eject, stove pipes and failure to lock open on an empty gun. I am talking almost every round with some loads that I had just run tubes of. Then we modified her stance and grip and loaded it back up. She then ran everything flawlessly as well, using partial and full tubes, both deliberate fire and cost me money style (mag dump) without a failure. (Except for that low recoil, low noise and sub one ounce load. It did not have enough energy to do anything but make the bolt bounce) I am sharing this because I hope it may be helpful to some reading this thread. The results were repeatable. Soft stance with a light hold and the gun would get a bellyache. Shoot it with authority and good form and it would sing.

I hope this give people just one more point of reference when trying to diagnose a malfunction.

[spencerhut]

I have been perfectly happy running 930's for the last couple of years. Bought a heavly used Win SX2 22"(FN SLP Copy) from a guy that was sick of it not working. It was filthy, so I sonic tanked the gun clean. Barrel had like half a pound of lead in it, but it cleaned up perfect. Lubed the action, bolt etc. no lube on the piston area. Tested it at home, worked fine with my reloads and the cheap Federal 1145 stuff.

Just so happened Rudy Waldinger was having a shotgun class so I took the SX2/SLP and my faithful 930 I've been shooting. One of my very good friends also came to the class and brought his FN SLP 18" gun that has been giving him fits since he got it. I'm 6'3" and 200lb and he is a bit bigger, we are both experienced shooters.

We shot all day and he had nothing but trouble. I let him shoot my SX2 and he had the same issues. We tried all different kinds of ammo from 1145fps Federals to 1300FPS Winchesters throughout the day. Everything worked for me in both my guns, nothing worked consistantly for him. At the last most intense session of the day I used his SLP. I fully expected the gun to give me fits and it ran flawlessly with a mix of 1145 and 1200FPS Federal target loads. I pounded on that gun and it just ran and ran. He was pissed at himself and the gun.

I'm not suggesting the OP's problem is user error, I'm just relating my experience with the SLP/SX2

[Bullshifter1939]

per your #10 suggestion---Check with Nordic first--I believe they will tell you that is not compatible?? Good Luck and Good Shooting

[twowheels]

Mine came with 2 pistons and it has been 100% with everything I've shot through it using the light piston. It also is very accurate with slugs and hits poa.

So far, I'm very happy with it.