kneelingatlas Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Ever since I started tuning Tanfoglio I've been obsessed with the elusive Huening roller plunger, then I got one, installed it with the Henning trigger and a modified race hammer, but it still didn't stack up to my CZ TS. Sure it was light, but it had more travel and not the same icicle break. Then I got the idea of a ball bearing, with only one tiny little point in contact with the trigger bar, friction would be minimal, so here it is: I have a hard time believing no one has ever done this before, it really was pretty easy and I'm pretty happy with the results. The pull weight remained pretty constant between a polished stock plunger, the roller and the ball, but I think the reset is definitely better. Everyone who has gone really light on the trigger return spring knows how the reset can get mushy; the reset with the ball is great! The trigger seems to snap back to center. No patents, I'm not going to quit my day job, I just wanted to share what I think is a dramatic improvement for little cost or effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adiksaputok Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 will that work on cz shadow and tafoglio stock 2 are you shooting at NRG this sat can i try it tnx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted August 8, 2013 Author Share Posted August 8, 2013 Joel, No on the Shadow (CZs use a bar spring instead of a plunger), yes on the Stock II, no on Norco. I've been meaning to get up to NRG one of these days, but with two sons and one on the way, my dance card is pretty full! I shoot Pala once a month and Iron Sights on occasion; definitely let me know if you'll ever be in San Diego, I'd love to handle a Stock II sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djb25 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 That is a really great idea! Nice job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harleyvet02 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Did you modify the plunger or just found a ball bearing that fit? Great idea by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torogi Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Id like to do this on my Stock 2. Uhmm.. can you share how? =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-mishka Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Id like to do this on my Stock 2. Uhmm.. can you share how? =) Second that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Interesting Idea, but I don't think that the ball bearing is actually making a substantial friction difference verses a properly polished or hueing roller setup. The primary difference in the reset you are feeling is probably more due to preloading the plunger spring more (due to the ball bearing pushing the head of the plunger down more) which created more spring tension pushing up on the trigger bar. You could probably achieve the same improved reset feel by simply putting shims under the trigger plunger spring to preload it more while the assembly is put together. I also doubt that the bearing is actually rotating in the pocket as the trigger bar moves over the top of it. Ball bearings require a continuous race to run within in order to rotate properly. Putting a ball bearing into a pocket defeats this basic functionality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealio Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 hueing roller setup. Where can you get the Huening roller these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted August 8, 2013 Author Share Posted August 8, 2013 Id like to do this on my Stock 2. Uhmm.. can you share how? =) Second that I used my drill press with a 1/16" end mill bit to make a flat spot on the plunger, then used an 1/8" ball end mill bit to make the socket. The balls (I learned they're not "ball bearings" without the housing, just balls) are just 1/8" stainless you can buy in a hardware store. I went too deep on the first one and had to shave some of the plunger off to expose the ball again, but the one in the pictures turned out perfect (I did lose a few balls in the process). I have yet to try one in a DA/SA, so I'm not sure how the DA stroke will feel. Cha-lee is right that the ball doesn't spin, the difference in feel comes from an infinitely small contact surface and the new geometry of the plunger. I guess if you were to graph the position of the trigger during reset on one axis and the position of the plunger on the other, this plunger would have a much sharper drop off, the reset with roller and the stock pin is much more gradual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted August 8, 2013 Author Share Posted August 8, 2013 Where can you get the Huening roller these days? I found mine in a bag of spare parts which came with my used Match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-mishka Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 (edited) Id like to do this on my Stock 2. Uhmm.. can you share how? =) Second that I used my drill press with a 1/16" end mill bit to make a flat spot on the plunger, then used an 1/8" ball end mill bit to make the socket. The balls (I learned they're not "ball bearings" without the housing, just balls) are just 1/8" stainless you can buy in a hardware store. I went too deep on the first one and had to shave some of the plunger off to expose the ball again, but the one in the pictures turned out perfect (I did lose a few balls in the process). I have yet to try one in a DA/SA, so I'm not sure how the DA stroke will feel. Cha-lee is right that the ball doesn't spin, the difference in feel comes from an infinitely small contact surface and the new geometry of the plunger. I guess if you were to graph the position of the trigger during reset on one axis and the position of the plunger on the other, this plunger would have a much sharper drop off, the reset with roller and the stock pin is much more gradual. In the name of science Im wheeling to subject one of my plungers to your modification and I can report back how it feels in Stock2 and Limited Edited August 8, 2013 by e-mishka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 I hate to poo on an idea, but this is a lot of work to achieve the same smooth as silk plunger to trigger bar action that can be made by optimizing the surface and angles of the existing parts. A properly "Tuned" plunger and trigger bar will work as smoothly as a roller bearing setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praetorian97 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 In the name of science Im wheeling to subject one of my plungers to your modification and I can report back how it feels in Stock2 and Limited Keep us posted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealio Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 I hate to poo on an idea, but this is a lot of work to achieve the same smooth as silk plunger to trigger bar action that can be made by optimizing the surface and angles of the existing parts. A properly "Tuned" plunger and trigger bar will work as smoothly as a roller bearing setup. I agree. My polished plungers feel almost (95%) as good as my Heuning. The big advantage to the Heuning is that its a drop in part... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted August 8, 2013 Author Share Posted August 8, 2013 (edited) this is a lot of work It really only took a few minutes, no longer than to polish a plunger. I hate to poo on an idea LIAR!!! A properly "Tuned" plunger and trigger bar will work as smoothly as a roller bearing setup. Have you tried one? CHA-LEE, you're a Tanfoglio god around here, but you make a habit of poo pooing any new ideas which are discussed on this board. You're probably right that they're a waste of time and money and that we'd all be better shooters if we spent more time/money shooting/training, and less time tinkering with out guns, but that assumes each member of this forum has the same motivations. The way I see it, this sport has multiple facets: shooting, collecting, gunsmithing, reloading (there are probably more) and some are drawn to one area more than others for one reason or another. Doing what makes us happy is what a hobby is all about right? Besides, if no one ever stepped outside the box and tried something new, we all be shooting revolvers or... 1911s . Edited August 8, 2013 by kneelingatlas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adiksaputok Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Joel, No on the Shadow (CZs use a bar spring instead of a plunger), yes on the Stock II, no on Norco. I've been meaning to get up to NRG one of these days, but with two sons and one on the way, my dance card is pretty full! I shoot Pala once a month and Iron Sights on occasion; definitely let me know if you'll ever be in San Diego, I'd love to handle a Stock II sometime. will let you know if i head to pala one day.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 kneelinggatlas> I totally understand your need to tinker. I love to tinker on stuff as well. I have probably RUINED more parts tinkering on stuff just to try things out than most people would even dare to do. My wife has a funny saying that if there isn't a Dremel, Drill Press or other power tool running at one point or another when I am in my "Gun Room" then there is usually something wrong. If you feel the need to reinvent the wheel, by all means go for it. I was just trying to save you some time and effort from lessons learned in my tinkering adventures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogiebb Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 (edited) Kneelingatlas.. i say go for it!! ... ive ruined 3 plungers and and few springs trying to get the best trigger that i can do . ive also used a henning roller plunger and a well polished angled plunger w/ light pen springs as well.. let us know how the ball bearing idea works it could roll over to a different design. Edited August 8, 2013 by ogiebb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted August 8, 2013 Author Share Posted August 8, 2013 I appreciate you looking out for me CHA-LEE, I'm actually really surprised I haven't ruined more parts; I've threaded my own barrels, drilled and tapped my own frames (my stainless Mossad frame was the hardest metal I've ever encountered!) and even welded up and re tapped two compensators (I'm batting .500 on that procedure ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted August 8, 2013 Author Share Posted August 8, 2013 (edited) Kneelingatlas.. i say go for it!! ... ive ruined 3 plungers and and few springs trying to get the best trigger that i can do . ive also used a henning roller plunger and a well polished angled plunger w/ light pen springs as well.. let us know how the ball bearing idea works. Pen springs!?! What a great idea! The lightest one I have right now is a random spring I found at the hardware store. I can already tell the depth of the socket makes a big difference in the feel; the higher the ball, the more positive the reset. Edited August 8, 2013 by kneelingatlas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glk21C Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 hueing roller setup. Where can you get the Huening roller these days? Henning was selling/manufacturing them for a time, not sure if he is anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 Nope, when I asked George Burning about it he told me they were too expensive to make and without a big enough market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogiebb Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Kneelingatlas.. i say go for it!! ... ive ruined 3 plungers and and few springs trying to get the best trigger that i can do . ive also used a henning roller plunger and a well polished angled plunger w/ light pen springs as well.. let us know how the ball bearing idea works. Pen springs!?! What a great idea! The lightest one I have right now is a random spring I found at the hardware store. I can already tell the depth of the socket makes a big difference in the feel; the higher the ball, the more positive the reset. the most reliable and lightest spring ive used are from Bic pens... same diameter, same coils but lighter than stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djb25 Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 I hate to poo on an idea, but this is a lot of work to achieve the same smooth as silk plunger to trigger bar action that can be made by optimizing the surface and angles of the existing parts. A properly "Tuned" plunger and trigger bar will work as smoothly as a roller bearing setup. A lot of work? Compared to "optimizing the surface and angles of the existing parts?" "Two quick cuts and drop in a ball" sounds much easier to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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