texas star question

[Dragon11]

A texas star related rule question. I recently shot a match and was shooting at a texas star. I shot at the plate, heard it hit, and then continued to shoot the rest of the stage. When I finished the plate was still on the rack, and it was scored as a miss. The plate had a full diameter hit on it. I heard from other shooters that if I hit the plate and get a full diameter hit, that its technically a reshoot, and not a miss, because of not being able to calibrate texas stars. To be clear I'm not upset about the miss being scored, it is what it is, I'm just curious on the actual rule for this in case it happens in the future.

Edited July 28, 2013 by Dragon11

[Tacticalk9]

A texas star related rule question. I recently shot a match and was shooting at a texas star. I shot at the plate, heard it hit, and then continued to shoot the rest of the stage. When I finished the plate was still on the rack, and it was scored as a miss. The plate had a full diameter hit on it. I heard from other shooters that if I hit the plate and get a full diameter hit, that its technically a reshoot, and not a miss, because of not being able to calibrate texas stars. To be clear I'm not upset about the miss being scored, it is what it is, I'm just curious on the actual rule for this in case it happens in the future.

were the plates repainted after each COF?

[Dragon11]

Yes, the guys in my squad were resetting them and painting them.

[Flatland Shooter]

Since it shows a hit, a reshoot should have been ordered since it was Range Equipment Failure. Unlike poppers, plates cannot be calibrated so when hit and fail to fall, reshoot. See Rule 4.3.1.6

If you get the opportunity to attend an RO class, do it. Even if you never RO a major match, knowing the rules can save you a stage once in a while.

Bill

Edited July 28, 2013 by Flatland Shooter

[toothandnail]

If it was an outlaw match , at least the ones I shoot, all steel MUST FALL to be scored a hit. That removes all the arguing/discussion about reshoot, scoring, ect. Most of those matches, the turn out is high enough, reshoots would make the match too long.

[Sarge]

Dragon,

That sucks for you as it is clearly a reshoot if you hit inside the circumference of the circle itself and it does not fall. A texas star is nothing more than 5 plates. And plates, when hit, must fall.

Now, if you hit it on the neck of the plate that is another matter....

[coldchar]

Texas Stars are the worst possible combination of poppers and plates. They need to be calibrated but never are. As far as I am concerned, they are fine for fun matches, but don't belong in serious matches until some standards are adopted.

Jim

[mhs]

Dragon,

That sucks for you as it is clearly a reshoot if you hit inside the circumference of the circle itself and it does not fall. A texas star is nothing more than 5 plates. And plates, when hit, must fall.

Now, if you hit it on the neck of the plate that is another matter....

What happens if you hit the neck of the plate and it doesn't fall? Rule?

[Sarge]

Dragon,

That sucks for you as it is clearly a reshoot if you hit inside the circumference of the circle itself and it does not fall. A texas star is nothing more than 5 plates. And plates, when hit, must fall.

Now, if you hit it on the neck of the plate that is another matter....

What happens if you hit the neck of the plate and it doesn't fall? Rule?

Nothing. If you hit the neck and it does fall that is a reshoot. Think of the neck as not existing.

[Tacticalk9]

Dragon,

That sucks for you as it is clearly a reshoot if you hit inside the circumference of the circle itself and it does not fall. A texas star is nothing more than 5 plates. And plates, when hit, must fall.

Now, if you hit it on the neck of the plate that is another matter....

What happens if you hit the neck of the plate and it doesn't fall? Rule?

Nothing. If you hit the neck and it does fall that is a reshoot. Think of the neck as not existing.

not sure id care for a reshoot if it DOES FALL

[Sarge]

Dragon,

That sucks for you as it is clearly a reshoot if you hit inside the circumference of the circle itself and it does not fall. A texas star is nothing more than 5 plates. And plates, when hit, must fall.

Now, if you hit it on the neck of the plate that is another matter....

What happens if you hit the neck of the plate and it doesn't fall? Rule?

Nothing. If you hit the neck and it does fall that is a reshoot. Think of the neck as not existing.

not sure id care for a reshoot if it DOES FALL

Neither would I but it is what results

[Sarge]

As for a rule, this one fits best:

4.3.1.5 Scoring metal targets must be shot and fall or overturn to score.

Scoring poppers which fail to fall when hit are subject to the

provisions of Appendix C1, 6 & 7. Scoring metal targets which

a Range Officer deems to have fallen or overturned due to a shot

on the supporting apparatus or prematurely fallen or moved for

any reason will be treated as range equipment failure.

[mactiger]

Negative, ghostrider.

Any hit on the plate, anywhere, and it doesn't fall, it's a reshoot. Doesn't have to be a full diameter, or hit the circle. 4.3.1.5 and 4.3.1.6 make no mention of any part of a plate--they cover either the entire plate, or the support apparatus. The "neck" is part of the plate, therefore if it's struck by any part of a bullet and doesn't fall, it's a REF reshoot.

Outlaw matches are not relevant to this forum. Nothing against them, but it's of no help to mention what would happen there--not using USPSA rules takes them out of these discussions.

Troy

[stick]

Only one hit? All the Texas Star I shot have 5 plates on them. Am I missing something?

[ktm300]

At local USPSA matches I see the rules on plates ignored either on stars or just plates sitting on stands.

The long and short of it is:

if you hit the thing holding the plate and the plate falls = reshoot

if you hit the plate and it doesn't fall = reshoot

A good RO will stop you when one of the reshoot conditions are met.

[Dragon11]

Only one hit? All the Texas Star I shot have 5 plates on them. Am I missing something?

I put down all of the plates but one. The one remaining I hit with a full diameter shot, it didn't fall.

[Flatland Shooter]

I don't see this asked or answered.

Was this a USPSA match or was it an outlaw match?

Edited July 28, 2013 by Flatland Shooter

[Dragon11]

I don't see this asked or answered.

Was this a USPSA match or was it an outlaw match?

It was a USPSA match, level II. I only asked so I would know what to do in the future. Thankfully, I don't see this type of thing happen often, which is the reason I asked. It definitely will be something to remember.

[EEH]

I never hit a plate with full dia.hit and it not fall,,,especially in the center of the plate..Sometime when hit at the bottom they won't fall.

What were you shooting,major minor????

[ltdmstr]

This happened to me at the IA Sectional about a month ago. RO stopped me and gave me a reshoot due to REF.

[leas327]

I never hit a plate with full dia.hit and it not fall,,,especially in the center of the plate..Sometime when hit at the bottom they won't fall.

What were you shooting,major minor????

Do you shoot a lot of stars?

I have seen 3 different designs and can say that they were all finicky and none were 100% reliable. Too much spring and they won't release the plate clean or at all when hit. Too little and you can shoot the arms and the plates will fall off. Or someone will shoot a top plate and it will hit an arm when it falls and knock off a plate.

I like stars and think they are a lot of fun. But if you have one in a major your RM might as well pop a tent at that stage because he will be camped out there anyways.

To the op Troy has it right (no real surprise there). Any hit on a plate counts, you should have had to reshoot the stage.

[Dragon11]

I never hit a plate with full dia.hit and it not fall,,,especially in the center of the plate..Sometime when hit at the bottom they won't fall.

What were you shooting,major minor????

It was major, 45 ACP 175 power factor.

[EEH]

I never hit a plate with full dia.hit and it not fall,,,especially in the center of the plate..Sometime when hit at the bottom they won't fall.

What were you shooting,major minor????

Do you shoot a lot of stars?

I have seen 3 different designs and can say that they were all finicky and none were 100% reliable. Too much spring and they won't release the plate clean or at all when hit. Too little and you can shoot the arms and the plates will fall off. Or someone will shoot a top plate and it will hit an arm when it falls and knock off a plate.

I like stars and think they are a lot of fun. But if you have one in a major your RM might as well pop a tent at that stage because he will be camped out there anyways.

To the op Troy has it right (no real surprise there). Any hit on a plate counts, you should have had to reshoot the stage.

I do shoot them a lot,I have two at my range.One by Terry Ashton one by MGM..I like to shoot the bottom plate first and try to clear it when they come by,I don't do that in a match.Some time it works they both have different locks to hold the plates on and yes they can be a pain in a big match..I use on at my match every month,well about ten of us if you want to call it a match..CYA

[Nik Habicht]

I never hit a plate with full dia.hit and it not fall,,,especially in the center of the plate..Sometime when hit at the bottom they won't fall.

What were you shooting,major minor????

I've seen it happen, usually with MGM's star, when the setup was less than optimal. The particular plate holding mechanism on that star seems to be a little sensitive to the star being perfectly level -- if the top is tilted toward the shooter, plates tend to hang on to the arm. Given that range floors are rarely level, I can see it happening....

[stick]

Only one hit? All the Texas Star I shot have 5 plates on them. Am I missing something?

I put down all of the plates but one. The one remaining I hit with a full diameter shot, it didn't fall.

Sorry! I must have missed that