DGDDS91 Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Anyone know which gives a faster site picture when transitioning. I have two open guns with C-Mores and are considering switching to an Aimpoint tube to reduce parallax. Any thoughts Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hostetter Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 If you never lose the dot they are about the same. However finding the dot is easier with a tube style sight such as the Aimpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdj Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Having been an Aimpoint advocate, and having recently switched to a C-more, I have to say that I think the C-more is significantly faster on transitions due to the wider field of view. I also have to say, contrary to the usual wisdom, that except in awkward positions, finding the dot on the C-more is at least as fast as with the Aimpoint. I switched back to an Aimpoint equipped gun at my last session and found myself working harder to find the dot. The amount of clutter in your field of view is much higher. Are you having significant parallax problems with the C-more? My take is the C-more performs better ... but the Aimpoint is much better built Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newguy Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 I've noticed that the top shooters who don't regularly shoot open (Leatham, Munson and I'm sure others) seem to prefer the Aimpoint. It also seems that European shooters like Grauffel and Kirsch wouldn't go with Aimpoint -- even if they were sponsored -- if it was inferior. At their level, they can't afford to compromise on equipment even if they're sponsored. I've gone back and forth between the Tasco (similar to the Aimpoint) and the C-More. For whatever reason, I'm more comfortable with a tube sight. Mmaybe it's the security of the tube or as Brian says it's just more similar to how I (we) see and do things. Despite the extra weight, my draw times and transitions are similar. What I lose in the weight I seem to make up for in faster sight acquisition. On the other hand, I think in the right hands and with the right practice the C-More is probably more competitive. But, that's relative to the shooter. Some people have no problem finding the C-More dot (or with the parallax) while others struggle with it. In the end, it's what works best for you in terms of your physiology and how you see things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 I am having a heck of a time going from a Jpoint to a Cmore. My draws slowed ALOT from about .8 to a 1.1 My splits slowed from .15 to a .26 on average. And my transitions went horrid. But I think its alot of relearning what has been ingrained into memory and subconcious muscle reflex. Hopefully it will kick back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 KDJ, do you shoot with both eyes open? Since I have a gun with a tube (propoint) and one with a Cmore, I have been experimenting with both. My experience so far is that as long as I keep both eyes open, I dont notice the extra bulk of the tube any more than the Cmore. As soon as I close one eye, I notice the loss of field of vision with the tube. Since I can now shoot well with both eyes open using either dot sight, I prefer the ease of dot aquisition of the tube over the Cmore and I don't notice the extra weight at all either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
short_round Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 I have to say that I think the C-more is significantly faster on transitions due to the wider field of view. Exactly. Some people have no problem finding the C-More dot (or with the parallax) while others struggle with it. "Finding the dot" is all about index. If you index properly you don't have to "find it." It will be there. In the end, it's what works best for you in terms of your physiology and how you see things. Most definitely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newguy Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Short round, you're right that finding the dot has to do with index. Getting a good index isn't too hard in leisurely practice, but it's definitely harder under match pressure or when shooting in a weird position. Or, when you're just off that day or when your draw isn't exactly right. Or ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
short_round Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Short round, you're right that finding the dot has to do with index. Getting a good index isn't too hard in leisurely practice, but it's definitely harder under match pressure or when shooting in a weird position. Or, when you're just off that day or when your draw isn't exactly right. Or ...... [putting on helmet] TAKE COVER! [\putting on helmet] [loud speaker over sirens and flashing lights] Sound collision and prepare for the bombardment of DRY FIRE posts! [\loud speaker over sirens and flashing lights] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdj Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 KDJ, do you shoot with both eyes open? Yep - I do and I'm very aware of the peripheral cluter on the aimpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newguy Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 I went from a C-More to an Aimpoint. For whatever reason, I find it's easier to pick up the dot on the Aimpoint. It's not only because the Aimpoint dot is brighter but also because the the tube helps me index. I don't think my times are better with the Aimpoint or that my transitions are faster, but my confidence level is higher. I'm not as worried about losing the dot on a stage as I was with the C-More which makes me more relaxed on the shooting line. OTOH, the lighter weight the C-More probably makes it more competitive in the right hands. I underline _in the right hands_. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 C-more. Never met an Aimpoint I didn't break. I am sure they are better now but I am on my first C-more 10 years or so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpnBlstr Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 It also seems that European shooters like Grauffel and Kirsch wouldn't go with Aimpoint -- even if they were sponsored -- if it was inferior. At their level, they can't afford to compromise on equipment even if they're sponsored. It looks like Eric has switched to C-More!! Check www.ericgrauffel.com . There's a pic of his new gun - looks awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoNsTeR Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 I'm dyin' to know why he switched, he hasn't said on his site or forum yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckbradley Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Bottom line- The cmore is the most competitive sight for shooting open class in IPSC. The idea that the top shooters only shoots the best because they cant afford to go with any thing else is off base. Its about money and who pays them to use it. Or who wont pay them to use it. I have known top shooters deliberately not using or endorsing a product or company because they wouldnt sponsor them. Now look at what the top unsponsored shooters are using and you just might get a picture of what really is best. In that case I think you will find cmore dominates. Just another way to look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIIID Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 The C-more is the most competitive for Open maybe, maybe not. It is the sight that has been marketed the most toward IPSC. Other sights are trying to break in to the market but it's a hard nut to crack when everybody thinks it's the best. Aimpoint has showed little interest towards IPSC since they can sell more to the military. Bigger market place. If you start with a tube sight you will probably stay with it. The vast majority of guns being built today will have a C-more as standard equipment. It's like everything else in this sport, what's old is new again. Who knows someone might make a tube sight in the next couple of years and market it right and it will become the sight that everyone thinks they need to win. It all boils down to a personal preferance, what works for them. If they don't have a chance to try one(tube) they will never know if they made the right choice. Sometimes it's better to stand outside of the box than standing inside with everyone else. Rich P.S. Who knows Aimpoint may come back with aggressive marketing and dominate the sport. Oh,ya Aimpoint all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckbradley Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Not biased are you? One of those that just like to be different? You didnt read one word I wrote. You are so set on bucking the clear winner no matter the sacrafice. Oh by the way I started with a tube, had em on the first 3 guns I built back in the 90's. When I finally did switch i couldnt believe I didnt do it sooner. So I have had experience both ways. And I might ad that my experience is pretty extensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 I can't wait for it to be CA DOJ approved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 If they don't have a chance to try one(tube) they will never know if they made the right choice. Sometimes it's better to stand outside of the box than standing inside with everyone else. RIID, There's lots of the attitude of "follow the leader" in every competitive sport and this one is NO exception. Lots of surprises to be found if you resist following the dogma, and it's a lot more fun to figure things out for yourself as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Aimpoint, after all, has been on top of the last two USPSA Open Championship guns and the last two IPSC World Shoot Open guns. Others, like Saul, Henning, and, ahem, Rob Leatham seem to do very well with them. This, like the S_I debate, all boils down to preference. Both (C-More and Aimpoint) are fine pieces of equipment and would serve their respective users well. All that really matters is the time spent becoming intimate with the system (practice). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 The very few times I've played with Open guns, the Aimpoint has always seemed "better" and easier to pick up the dot with. [/i'm Not an Open Shooter, But I Play One On TV Mode] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEDELLCUSTOM Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 whatever works for you, then that's the best sight for you. i shoot an OKO on my gun because it feel it points better for me. you can't always base your decision on what to put on top of your gun by who is using that particular setup. i have seen a number of shooters recently switch to an aimpoint with the reasoning that eric grauffel uses one so it must be the way to go. changing your optics is not going to take you from being an average shooter to winning the US Nationals, we all know it has to do with having all the skills and the right equipment all in one package. guys like eric grauffel could kick most of asses even if he had a mayonnaise jar with a candle in it mounted on top of his gun, for the simple reason that he possesses those skills that got him to where he is. that's just like all the hype on all these different combinations for guns in limited division. yes, you need the right equipment but rob leatham would probably still beat most of us even if he was shooting a 3" barreled gun with only 6 round mags. i know i got a little long winded in my dissertation on this subject but it drives me crazy when people think they can make an equipment change and it is going to propel them to a world championship overnight without the endless hours of training and range time you need to get there. get your gear together, get to the range and get to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIIID Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Chuck, Read every word and between the lines . If you would not have tried the C-more you wouldn't have realized it works best for you. I've given the C-more a fair shake and realized the Aimpoint was best for myself. A shooter must find out what works for them not what someone tells them is best. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Righto. There are pluses and minuses to each. Neither will hold you back from winning a World Shoot or Nationals if you are otherwise good enough. Pick one and practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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