BSeevers Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Ok those that shot stage 7 IN will have an easier time getting this. This is food for thought of how I approach ROing It was a house made of double stacked barrels that kept everybody but the RO with timer vision blocked at times. Some were bailing out at next to last right doorway and running around house to finish at the end of a hallway that you had to run down because of a target there. As an aside, my first run was the fastest time so I question that stage plan then and now. I shot it straight up so I was at a full run going right to left towards hallway, getting ready to engage a fast target on left side of hallway and then proceed down and finish. Gun is of course downrange but then somebody comes around corner in front of me at a full run(hallways on both sides of stage). I started to stop running and figure out what's up, cause while he was uprange, he was at about 45 degrees to my left and I was running straight on the 90 if that makes sense. This is in the middle of a stage not just a visual distraction. I didnt wanna shoot anybody and he was running because I guess he expected me to bail out and run around like a lot did so he was running to final hallway to watch for 180's etc. I told him and RO that it interfeared with me and the runner agreed, because we looked at each other and he saw it happen. RM did not agree since he didn't touch me. Well I disagree since I knew he intefered and I had asked for reshoot at end of "range clear" not cause I wanted a new run because I knew I had a good run but didnt get a fair run. I didn't argue but was mulling getting the $100 out. I didn't sign sheet. My friends brought RM to me first and I wanted him to talk to RO first since that's who knew what happened and that's the usual procedure after talking, then they offered reshoot which I took in the spirit of fairness and it wasn't as good(rain and bags) of a performance but that's not my point. I know when I am interfeared with and I believe officials should strive for safety and fairness. It is hard to RO and I always try to be fair but firm to the rules. I am letter to the law of the blue book but it can't cover it all if that makes sense Nothing personal of course. Just trying to help the learning This same thing happened in a different way to me years ago. I was shooting fast down one of those hallways. Back and forth, full run when I missed, I hit the brakes Started backing up and RO ran by me on the right. I kept gun downrange waited til BUG EYES backed up, shot target on right with miss and finished stage. He first didn't wanna give me a reshoot since he didn't touch me. Ok should I shoot him next time? Of course not. Food for thought as a RO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Ro does not need to touch you for interference. The number one rule is safety. If anyone ends up down range of the gun it is an immediate STOP sort it out and reshoot. In the first example the fact that they were looking for 180 violations suggests that they were the board RO or a third to help keep an eye on things. Either way they were RO's on the stage. The rules do not differentiate between timer RO and board RO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HI5-O Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Re-shoot should have been offered at the beginning. Next time call the RM asap (that's what they get paid the big bucks to do ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 I was scorekeeping a stage when the shooter overran the RO while retreating uprange. The RO eventually caught up and wanted the shooter to continue. I called stop and gave him a reshoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 8.6.4 In the event that inadvertent contact from the Range Officer or anotherexternal influence has interfered with the competitor during a course offire, the Range Officer may offer the competitor a reshoot of the courseof fire. The competitor must accept or decline the offer prior to seeingeither the time or the score from the initial attempt. However, in theevent that the competitor commits a safety infraction during any suchinterference, the provisions of Section 10.3 may still apply. Bill, Like Poppa Bear said, contact is not necessary but since the rule says "may offer" there may be some discussion. But, in the long run, shooting the RO is probably not the best option. Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuildSF4 Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 'or another external influence' In the situation described above I would offer a re-shoot, it is interference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxriver6 Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Can picture exactly how this occurred. IMHO should have been offered re-shoot. It was a neat stage. Although I know it is not the shooters responsibility, I wonder if when you are going to deviate so drastically from the other way fellow shooters approach the stage whether alerting the RO's to your plan might be a good idea. Just a thought, because that was a tough stage to RO! Great match, even with the weather struggles on Saturday. Beat tot he injured shooter from Saturday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxriver6 Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 "best to the shooter" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Bill, Wholeheartedly agree that an RO does not have to touch a shooter to interfere with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Knowing Bill and having the pleasure of dealing with him a few times, he is one of the most honest guys and maintains some of the highest ethical standards of anyone I know. I am for sure, without a doubt, believe the OP was only asking what was fair in this situation. You should have had an easy reshoot offered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Part of being an RO is sticking up for your decisions. Granted I tend to be the RM for our club so few are likely to argue with my decision anyways. If I am working the timer, the board, or just acting as a third to keep an eye on the stage so as to keep all the RO's out of traps, my call stands. If I feel I interfered with your run then I will offer the reshoot. If another RO disagrees that is fine but I am the one making the call. I will not overrule a call to NOT offer a reshoot unless I am convinced by talking to both the RO and the shooter that is was in fact some form of interference. If the other RO offers a reshoot then I will always stand behind them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 This needs to be said: This sort of situation should not have happened in the first place - Stages should be reviewed in advance not only for compliance with the rules but also with safety in mind. If a range official on the stage during a run has to take a blind turn while away from the shooter to get down range, that's a hazard if there are targets to be addressed or potential route to them that the shooter might take that puts the RO in front of the gun. Found that out my first year, shooting my first major. A well known GM was ARO and came around a corner right in front of an array I was about to shoot. He didn't get warned by the CRO, who knew what I was going to do because I told him in advance. Better that it shouldn't have been possible, or that the RO's know in advance if there are RO traps to be avoided. FYI: I didn't get a reshoot. As a brand new shooter I didn't think to ask and was too shaken at the moment anyway (I pulled off the targets until he was safe, and finished the stage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaosshooter00 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 This needs to be said: This sort of situation should not have happened in the first place - Stages should be reviewed in advance not only for compliance with the rules but also with safety in mind. If a range official on the stage during a run has to take a blind turn while away from the shooter to get down range, that's a hazard if there are targets to be addressed or potential route to them that the shooter might take that puts the RO in front of the gun. Found that out my first year, shooting my first major. A well known GM was ARO and came around a corner right in front of an array I was about to shoot. He didn't get warned by the CRO, who knew what I was going to do because I told him in advance. Better that it shouldn't have been possible, or that the RO's know in advance if there are RO traps to be avoided. FYI: I didn't get a reshoot. As a brand new shooter I didn't think to ask and was too shaken at the moment anyway (I pulled off the targets until he was safe, and finished the stage). Big ol' +1 here. The RM should never have let a stage pass that had an inherit RO trap. Many a great stage has been dumped for this reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB45 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I could not see justification for a reshoot as I didn't witness any interference when you ask for one at "If Finished". I was busy watching your gun, not the other RO on the stage. You were the only person to have an issue with the RO staff on the Stage. I'm sorry your reshoot didn't go well. What did I do to piss off your entire team? Everybody on your squad shook my hand and said thanks, except your team. Ouch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) I could not see justification for a reshoot as I didn't witness any interference when you ask for one at "If Finished". I was busy watching your gun, not the other RO on the stage. You were the only person to have an issue with the RO staff on the Stage. I'm sorry your reshoot didn't go well. What did I do to piss off your entire team? Everybody on your squad shook my hand and said thanks, except your team. Ouch... Sometimes I think squads at major matches should be mandatorily selected at random. I can think of a couple groups of shooters that will gang up on the ROs when one of their butt-buddies is unhappy about something. I'm not saying that is what happened here--I'm purely making a general observation. Edited July 23, 2013 by Carmoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandi Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 I could not see justification for a reshoot as I didn't witness any interference when you ask for one at "If Finished". I was busy watching your gun, not the other RO on the stage. You were the only person to have an issue with the RO staff on the Stage. I'm sorry your reshoot didn't go well. What did I do to piss off your entire team? Everybody on your squad shook my hand and said thanks, except your team. Ouch... I need to correct some of these issues that are going on. I feel as though my integrity and my teams integrity is being questioned. The matching Saturday was somewhat hectic due to weather which is out of our control. I know for a fact that I have shaken most of the ROs hand at that match and worked as much as possible. On your stage specifically I remember having friendly conversation with yourself and shaking you hand at the end because we had joked about the weather. I also had several other friendly conversations with the other ROs on the stage to keep the mood light during the storm that had popped up. As for my and my teams integrity being questioned, we do our best to help and be friendly at every match. If you will recall in march at sellersburg you had forgotten your gear at home and my team was able to lend youa full rig with competion holster so you could participate in the match. My team and I do everything in our power to make every match enjoyable and run as smoothly as possible. To publicly announce out issues on a forum is just juvenile. If you feel as though a team mate or RO or anybody at the range is not polite or friendly it should be handled in a different matter as to not slander anyone's name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Folks, we don't talk at each other. Closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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