JD45 Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 While practicing over the weekend I became aware of the tiny differance between good hits and poor hits. If I let my eyes see the sights where they needed to be and let my finger break the shot, not by concious thought (hard to explain), hits were always good. Planning to shoot 6 shots on one target, trying to quickly recover from recoil, and forcing the trigger to break again, just does not work for me. If I let the eyes take over and control the whole deal, everything sort of just happens.....and at the right time. I'm not sure if you can teach this. You must see for yourself to believe. And, I found that I could easily lose focus and drift back to some bad habit. The best part is that with the eyes taking over and the hits being better, speed is the same or faster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langdon Tactical Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Very cool, that is something that I have to constantly re-teach myself. Letting my sights dictate my cadence of fire.! Letting my trigger finger drive the sights into the point were I want the bullet to hit. Very hard thing to do, but without a doubt a key to accuracy at any speed. It is pretty easy to learn how to shoot quickly, at close distance (inside 10 yards or so) but as you move back, trigger control becomes the key. Learning to have a connection from the trigger finger to the sights at the sub-conscious level is so hard to learn and even harder to teach. But if you can learn how to train yourself to do it, you will be able to do amazing things. This is were the shooting really starts to get fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD45 Posted November 24, 2004 Author Share Posted November 24, 2004 Are you the real Mr. Langdon? When I made that post I thought I had a major revalation. It turned out to be just another day in school. My brain soon drifted back to a tried and true losing technique and I had a mini-slump. I still believe what I said, but it's so damn hard to do on a consistent basis. I have made my practice sessions more basic and have went back to shooting at 15-35yds. again. I sometimes think that I was born for the sole purpose of making things harder than they really are. But oh how I love to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langdon Tactical Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 As far as I know, I am Mr. Langdon. The winter time is the only time I get to play a little and I really enjoy this forum. There are some really smart guys here posting some really good information. We all have slumps, but be postitive. Think about what you do well, all the things you do right. It is hard to do what your talking about, but that same mental challange is what makes it so much fun. If it was easy, we would all have stopped a long time ago . Keep shooting and working on it. Focus on when you do it right and what that looks like and feels like when you do it right. Drill the good stuff into you brain and the good stuff will stick. Man, is shooting fun or what! Ernest Langdon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Man, is shooting fun or what! Amen! That should go in one of the quotation topics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD45 Posted November 24, 2004 Author Share Posted November 24, 2004 Thanks. Wow this place is almost scary, with all of the top shooters in the country showing up when you least expect it. If Elvis comes back he will stop here first (after he shoots his T.V.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Holy pooparooney (new word) it's "the" Mr. Langdon. Ain't too many folks around here who can give TGO a run for the money. Congrats on being top dawg in IDPA. That rocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Allen Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 Letting my sights dictate my cadence of fire Langdon, perfectly put, and a reminder to me to do just that. Flex, this is what you have been trying to tell me in our other thread. Great stuff guys. I don't feel so bad about having to force the good habits, we all fight temptation on this one it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pangris Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Hello, Mr. Langdon... Not only can he give TGO a run, TGO is here, too! FWIW, I never really "got" the thing about recoil, letting the sights set back down, etc until... I fired my new S&W 642 about 100 times at the plates (47 feet away). Then I pick up my STI Trojan 5.0 in 9mm. I actually laughed. It was a huge breakpoint for me. I realized I could think a LOT while the gun was recoiling. And do stuff. The first few times after the transition, I swear it felt like I had time to turn to my shooting buddy and say - Man, this thing has no recoil compared to that revolver! Then turn back and W A I T for the cycle to finish. Bear in mind this is a gun I ran 1500+ rounds through at Thunder Ranch. I KNOW the gun. But it took breaking up my normal cycle a bit to see just how easy it was to shoot, if I let it be easy to shoot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melman_1 Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Learning to have a connection from the trigger finger to the sights at the sub-conscious level is so hard to learn and even harder to teach. But if you can learn how to train yourself to do it, you will be able to do amazing things. This is were the shooting really starts to get fun! What do you do to teach yourself how to do this? It would be great for me at 25 yards on a D-1 target if I could hit the x ring the majority of the time. But out of 10 shots at least 4 of them will be outside all the rings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 "Learning to have a connection from the trigger finger to the sights at the sub-conscious level is so hard to learn and even harder to teach. But if you can learn how to train yourself to do it, you will be able to do amazing things. This is were the shooting really starts to get fun!" Boy, once this DOES happen to you, you really KNOW it and it's all sledding and shrieking from there. I've been fortunate enough to have the experience (even lately, no less)(but not quite 100% of the time--it takes focus) enough to know what it feels like. Oh, whatta feeling! THEN one is tempted to say..."Man, is shooting fun or what!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 melman, As simple as it sounds, the whole key to it is keeping the sights on the target until the bullet leaves the barrel. If you do that, it is IMPOSSIBLE to miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melman_1 Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 As simple as it sounds, the whole key to it is keeping the sights on the target until the bullet leaves the barrel. If you do that, it is IMPOSSIBLE to miss. When I shoot I pay attention to this especially during slow fire. In slow fire or rapid fire I never notice that the sight moves from where I want the bullet to hit when the gun fires. If they do I know i missed. This works great for me on targets that are 15 yards or closer, but on 20 yard targets im ok most of the time but not all the time. On 25 yard targets I will have hits on the target not where I aimed. I dont know why because I'm not flinching but it has to have something to do with my trigger control. It never shows up in dry fire either (the sights dipping down) I don't know what to do to improve my accuracy at 25 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 melman_1, If you are truely seeing the sights, then you should be able to read where the bullet will hit. Chances are, you are shifting your vision to something else. Possibly at the very last micro-second...maybe after the round has ignited, but the bullet hasn't left the barrel. Do you see the front sight lift out of the notch? Are you 110% sure, or do you think you see it? My shot calling actually improves as the target distance increases. This is because I put a bit more vision into it as the shot difficulty goes up. Try increasing your visual follow-thru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Run n Gun Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 melman_1,If you are truely seeing the sights, then you should be able to read where the bullet will hit. Chances are, you are shifting your vision to something else. Possibly at the very last micro-second...maybe after the round has ignited, but the bullet hasn't left the barrel. Do you see the front sight lift out of the notch? Are you 110% sure, or do you think you see it? My shot calling actually improves as the target distance increases. This is because I put a bit more vision into it as the shot difficulty goes up. Try increasing your visual follow-thru. I don’t want to drift this thread but I need to thank you Kyle for your patience in the way you keep hammering (and hammering and hammering!) away about this vision thing! I’m finally starting to “get it”. In a way, for me, it’s been like the stages of grief; denial, arguing, bargaining and finally, acceptance. Hi, my name is Ed, I shoot IPSC and I don’t “see” as well as I know I should… It’d taken a lot longer (if at all) if you hadn’t been so insistent about it… thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD45 Posted January 24, 2005 Author Share Posted January 24, 2005 "My shot calling actually improves as the target distance increases. This is because I put a bit more vision into it as the shot difficulty goes up" Flexmoney Melman, I would bet anything that you will see and understand what Flexmoney said very soon. The great thing about dryfire is the fact that it helps slow-fire group shooting tremendously. In precise slow-fire shooting, the last thing that your eyes see while the hammer is falling is the sights. When you try stunts like 150 plus yard pistol shooting you quickly realize how important it is to focus on the sights last. Young peoples eyes can shift focus so fast that it doesn't even seem like much of a shift in focus. The older you are, the more noticeable it becomes. A .22 rimfire can do great things for 25yd. precision shooting. You'll probably have this skill mastered soon enough. When a timer is running things get more interesting. Don't sweat it. Burn powder and have some fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Exactly what Kyle said. If your shots aren't where you think they are, you are not calling your shots. It doesn't matter whether the target is at 5 or 75 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melman_1 Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 Flex , I think your probably right about me shifting my vision at the last millisecond before the bullet actually leaves the barrel . I have Dawson fiber optic front sight on my Glock 35 and I believe what I do is watch the red dot lift out of the notch rather than the tip of the front sight. I think the next time I practice this week all I am going to just practice at 20 and 25 yards and watch the top of the front sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 Talk about shifting vision. At the last match I had a bank of six poppers at about 11 yards to mow down. I shot the first three zipping right along, then snapped my eyes to the fourth popper and left them on the target face with only the front sight seen peripherally. Immediately proceeded to miss three poppers in a row, got my poop in a group and quickly picked them up, but I was lost the stage and the match. Yeah, your eyes should dictate your shooting, but you still need to see what is required to make the shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melman_1 Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Practiced today and was double carefull to take my time with my Glock 17 with Henie sights instead of the Dawsons. Don't know why I never noticed this before but with that gun it is dead on at 10 and 15 yards slightly high at 20 yards and real high at 25 yards. So I shot faster calling my shots and adjusted my point of aim to the 6 o'clock postion of the paperplate I was shooting at. All shots were then in the center. I feel so stupid for not thinking of that sooner. So its either the front sight is to tall and i need to file it down some or the crimp is to tight on my reloads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 JD45, Nice post. It's like you gotta learn to allow (let), then if you allow long enough you start to believe, which is then when it really starts to come together. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD45 Posted January 27, 2005 Author Share Posted January 27, 2005 I am still amazed at the amount of quality information that I have come across on these forums in my short time here. No other place that I am aware of provides such fast, up to date, top-notch information for the competitive practical pistol shooter. I read some of my old posts and sometimes feel silly about what I wrote. I suppose we all like to think that we know how to shoot. This past year was really the beginning all over again for me. The "believing" part is one that I think is paramount. All of you Grandmasters can tell us something over and over, but until we truly believe(and I'm not even sure if seeing it is necessary), it just does not happen. I don't know where we would be without this forum. Thanks, Benos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pact-Man Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 I am still amazed at the amount of quality information that I have come across on these forums in my short time here. No other place that I am aware of provides such fast, up to date, top-notch information for the competitive practical pistol shooter. I read some of my old posts and sometimes feel silly about what I wrote. I suppose we all like to think that we know how to shoot. This past year was really the beginning all over again for me. The "believing" part is one that I think is paramount. All of you Grandmasters can tell us something over and over, but until we truly believe(and I'm not even sure if seeing it is necessary), it just does not happen. I don't know where we would be without this forum. Thanks, Benos. Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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