Why not 9mm major?

[Nimitz]

While I'm currently a Production shooter I've started to do some basic research for eventually switching to open ... My first choice seems to be which caliber. 9mm major or 38 SC? Given the relative cost and availability of 9mm brass vice 38SC it would seem to lead to a conclusion that 9mm would be the default for open. Since that is clearly not the case there must be some 'negatives' associated with it when compared to 38SC to justify the added cost of 38 SC.

So, I don't want to start a 9mm bashing debate, just trying to understand any real (or perceived) negatives for going with 9mm ... Thx

[Jaxshooter]

The advantage to 38 SC is there are more powders available to load. When 9mm major guns were first being built some had problems most was ejection related. That is a thing of the past. I switched from 38 SC 4 or 5 years ago to 9 major and have never had a problem with any of my guns. Some think you can produce more gas with the powders used to load 38 SC and therefore the guns shoot flatter. I have seen plenty of videos of 38 SC and 9 MM comparisons and the 9 was just as flat as the SC. Some people like Fords and some like Chevrolets. Shoot both calibers side by side and then make a decision.

[40S&W]

Where 9mm has it over 38SC are lost brass matches. I shoot 9mm for lost brass matches and 38SC for matches where I can get my brass back. I prefer shooting 38SC. 4-5 years ago used 38SC brass was plentiful, now basically unavailable. With all the hoarding going on once-fired 9mm brass is getting expensive and mixed bass is harder to find at ranges at least in my area.

[Nimitz]

thx, that is helpful. i currently have over 25,000 pieces of 9mm brass so going 9mm major is certainly an attractive option from that stand point. So as far as powders,what are the powders for 9mm major?

[Sarge]

Win Auto Comp is what I use and like a lot. Other top contenders are HS6, 3N37, Silhouette

[Shadyscott999]

My big problem with 9M was I HATE loading it. It makes a mess the cases are sooooo full. At least with HS6. I still have the 9M gun but it is such a different build to my 38SC they can't really be compared.

[Nimitz]

is there a large difference in the amount of powder required to make Major witjh 9mm vice 38SC or is it just that the 38 case is bigger?

[kosh79]

It's the same bullet so no not really however with the super the case has more capacity allowing for a larger range of slower powders to choose from

[Guest]

is there a large difference in the amount of powder required to make Major witjh 9mm vice 38SC or is it just that the 38 case is bigger?

The powder charges to make a given velocity using same bullet, primer, and powder will be a little less in the 9mm major due to the smaller case volume.

OAL will affect the case volume difference and one of the reasons people running 9mm major "load long" is to maximize volume as much as possible, as well as to improve feeding in some instances. The case volume difference is what allows the wider selection powders for the .38 super (as others have mentioned). Making major in 9mm can be done safely and there is now lots of info on powder selection for 9mm major - HS6, auto comp, silhouette, etc. all work.

As a comparison the nominal case volumes are:

.38 super (approx) = 1.14 cm3

9mm (approx) = 0.862 cm3

I don't have a dog in this race (or would that be a horse in this fight, I always mix up that metaphor!)...anyway I can see the advantages of each. As you know the most often cited advantage of 9major is that you don’t worry about picking up the brass as 9mm brass is cheap enough and plentiful. The advantage of the .38 is that it can use more powders and slower powders which gives a different feel to the gun. Cost wise I believe it is pretty much a wash between the two if you can get a fair percentage of your .38 super brass back and get at least 4-5 loadings (on average) from the .38 super cases, but that means you have to pick them up. I don't think there is any appreciable reliability differences between the two calibers with a well built gun, proper mag tweaking, and good load development and reloading practices. The feel of a 9mm vs. .38 gun is subjective but either way you go you will get used to it, so what is most important is to pick one, get your gun running good, and practice.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Bamboo

[lcs]

My big problem with 9M was I HATE loading it. It makes a mess the cases are sooooo full. At least with HS6. I still have the 9M gun but it is such a different build to my 38SC they can't really be compared.

Hmmmmm I use HS6 with 115 and rarely fling any powder. Maybe my reload speed is relative to my classification level

[Noximus03]

I load with 3n37 and my cases are jam packed. I've shot 38SC before, and I liked it a lot. The only thing that keeps me from having a SC built is the availability of brass. Overall, I like my 9 Major guns, and see no real need to switch.......for now.....

[eric nielsen]

I got my loading process down to where I wouldn't fling any powder, even with 3n38 up to within about 1/8" of the case rim. You have to put a fingertip on a case or on the shellplate to act as a friction brake rather than just letting the press pop your shellplate into the detent.

After that, I still had to measure each & every round for OAL (usually in front of the TV). The time it takes to do that versus the time to mark 38 Super cases at home and gather them up at a match is basically a wash. Depending on the day and the squad I might have 3-4 guys hand me my striped brass, or no one. Lately there's been more help so it seems the days of "move along - brass is cheap" are just about over and a return to 1990's match civility might be here.

Best balance, if you already have the right mags (SV, Caspian, Glock, or STI w/spacers) is to load HS6 w/CCI rifle primers and not worry about OAL once you've checked the first few round plus a sample here & there. As mentioned in many threads, the 9x19 is tapered and back-heavy and has more tendency to spin a 180 or 360 right in the vicinity of your ejection port, something to watch out for. I would not use pick-up brass from anywhere (except your own practice area, if you're SURE it's your brass) - buy from known once-fired sources only. I have nickel cop-fired Federal brass from their practice range and it was good for at least 3 or 4 loadings.

Edited April 16, 2013 by eric nielsen

[9X23Guy]

Where 9mm has it over 38SC are lost brass matches. I shoot 9mm for lost brass matches and 38SC for matches where I can get my brass back. I prefer shooting 38SC. 4-5 years ago used 38SC brass was plentiful, now basically unavailable. With all the hoarding going on once-fired 9mm brass is getting expensive and mixed bass is harder to find at ranges at least in my area.

38SC is available on Starline website, just backordered right now. It IS available you just have to wait a little while sometimes.

Edited April 16, 2013 by 9X23Guy

[Jaxshooter]

I have used True Blue and Silhouette Powder for 9 major since I have been shooting it. I started with True Blue and changed to Silhouette two years ago. The Silhouette is cleaner burning and my SD (standard deviation) is less than 10 FPS. I load on a Dillon 1050 and do not have any problem with powder spilage. My current load is 8.0 gr Silhouette with a 124 gr MG JHP, Win SRP loaded to 1.165. The load is 172.3 out of my Akai and 172.8 out of the Limcat.

[Chris iliff]

I shot a super for years then switched to 9. There a now plenty of powders that don't spill or fill a 9 up and still make major. I have used Autocomp and Tru Blue. Currently Autocomp. Others are named above.

What I think.

First, I'm never going back to a Super. Basically I'm just lazy, I picked up and scrounged my brass for 5-6 years and I don't want to do that anymore, ever.

Second, I do feel that the Super had a different recoil impulse, this is highly subjective, so ymmv. The nine is more harsh to me, I'm not sure how to phrase it. More snappy, cracky? It's a small thing, but it's something I noticed. I don't for one instant think the score card shows this, it's just something I feel. Maybe some don't even notice. That's my take.

[Parallax3D]

I think a lot of the info about 9 major being bad or hard to load is based on experience from when the power factor was still 175. I understand that there were people who had their guns blow up back then because they were loading to 185+ PF so they wouldn't go minor. Now that the power factor is 165, it's less of an issue. I run either a 115gr Montana Gold with 7.3gr of Autocomp, or a 124gr with 6.8gr, and both make about 174 PF in my gun with no pressure signs.

Edited April 17, 2013 by Parallax3D

[orangeman711]

Win AutoComp,HS6,VV350,Siloutte are all good powders for 9Maj especially when coupled with a 124gr. MGJHP. Good luck on your search.

[djthemac]

I plan to move to open in the next year or so. I am thinking about opting for a 9mm for the brass issue... however, how many of you open shooters are reloading your spent 9mm brass? I am pretty diligent about picking up my .40 brass, but I have seen more then a few flat 9mm primers after a USPSA match.

30.00 per K for 9mm was about normal pre crisis, now we are lucky seeing it for 45-50 per K.

142.00 per K for 38 Super backordered on starline's website.

[Nimitz]

that's a good question, is there a major difference between how many times you can reuse SC brass vs 9mm?

[zatchmo]

One other difference I didn't see mentioned is the taper vs straight walled case. SC is straight wall, and 9mm is tapered. It's a little easier to get 30 into a big stick with SC than with 9mm. A very VERY minor difference, but it is a difference.

[Shadyscott999]

that's a good question, is there a major difference between how many times you can reuse SC brass vs 9mm?

I have SC brass that has been loaded 20+ times.

[Sarge]

that's a good question, is there a major difference between how many times you can reuse SC brass vs 9mm?

I have SC brass that has been loaded 20+ times.

I have 9MAJOR brass that has been loaded at least 6 times.

[EkuJustice]

While sc lasts longer you still have to pick it up and at a list brass match its gone 9mm is much easier to get and if it gets lost big deal

[Jaxshooter]

I have 3 big sticks that all hold 30 rounds. Two old style SV and 1 new STI.

[shooter995]

I have 3 big sticks that all hold 30 rounds. Two old style SV and 1 new STI.

How do you get a STI tube to hold 30?? Please do tell