Outlaw Revo Match Scores

[jhgtyre]

So, as mentioned in another topic, we shot our Outlaw Revo Match at Rio Salado Sportsman's Club today. One of the match organizers is working to get scores finalized and then they can be posted here. Feel free to do the same at your club and post the results here. I am going to pin this topic to this top of this sub-forum for convenience sake. Currently we plan to run this match a few more times, minimum, and, if it does well, maybe keep running it.

Just as an FYI our rules were USPSA based except for equipment divisions. We allowed Open, anything goes, optics, ports etc..., Limited (basically USPSA Revo rules with major 6 or minor if you were either shooting minor or had a 7 or 8 shot gun, and a speedloader division like ICORE's Classic Division.

The match was a lot of fun and hopefully will continue. If I got any of the division/procedural info wrong I am sure Rob or Brad will correct me.

-Larry

[jhgtyre]

Scores from the Outlaw Revo Match are posted here.

The match was shot with a regular USPSA match in the morning and the revo only portion in the afternoon. Participants were encouraged to shoot under the current USPSA rules for the official match and return with the Outlaw Revo gear for the afternoon match.

The main results are in the link above. Here are the results for just the revo division:

Outlaw Revo Match

Match Date: 2/17/2013

Place Name USPSA Class Division PF Lady Mil Law For Age Points Stg %

1 Leatham, Rob REENTRY U Revolver Minor N N N N 435.0000 100.00%

2 Leatham, Rob L684 U Revolver Major N N N N 377.3715 86.75%

3 Brethour, Richard A59928 U Revolver Major N N N N 326.8742 75.14%

4 Brethour, Richard REENTRY U Revolver Minor N N N N 318.5042 73.22%

5 Schrock, Brian REENTRY U Revolver Minor N N N N 311.9828 71.72%

6 Shepherd, Scott A65768 U Revolver Minor N N N N 305.4932 70.23%

7 Stieber, Jason A44233 B Revolver Major N N N N 295.1447 67.85%

8 Stieber, Jason REENTRY B Revolver Major N N N N 291.2680 66.96%

9 Caudill, Paul REENTRY B Revolver Minor N N N N 289.0663 66.45%

10 Rodriguez, John A. REENTRY A Revolver Minor N N N N 284.2890 65.35%

11 Perkinson, Brad REENTRY C Revolver Minor N N N N 264.8745 60.89%

12 Krushak, Scott REENTRY B Revolver Minor N N N N 261.6360 60.15%

13 Mears, Mike TY4901 B Revolver Minor N N N N Super Senior 258.3088 59.38%

14 Slade, John TY57103 U Revolver Minor N N N N 252.8553 58.13%

15 Warren, Rudy REENTRY B Revolver Minor N N N N Senior 251.7677 57.88%

16 Schrock, Brian A76156 U Revolver Major N N N N 249.8878 57.45%

17 Drake, Larry REENTRY C Revolver Minor N N N N 248.7362 57.18%

18 Rodriguez, John A. A47648 A Revolver Major N N N N 240.4066 55.27%

19 Drake, Larry A47213 C Revolver Major N N N N 227.8528 52.38%

20 Perrin, Dennis L3484 B Revolver Major N N N N 226.2928 52.02%

21 Reilly, Chad REENTRY U Revolver Minor N N N N 221.0430 50.81%

22 Snipes, Duane REENTRY U Revolver Minor N N N N 220.2089 50.62%

23 Krushak, Scott FY59131 B Revolver Major N N N N 218.2619 50.18%

24 D'Amato, Frank REENTRY C Revolver Minor N N N N Super Senior 218.0215 50.12%

25 D'Amato, Frank A68566 C Revolver Minor N N N N Super Senior 209.9781 48.27%

26 Caudill, Paul L2842 B Revolver Major N N N N 208.2464 47.87%

27 Lake, Ryan TY72630 U Revolver Major N N N N Junior 204.2362 46.95%

28 Warren, Rudy FY34750 B Revolver Major N N N N Senior 195.2215 44.88%

29 Slobodzian, Kurt A55875 D Revolver Minor N N N N Senior 190.9354 43.89%

30 Mabanag, Al TY60779 U Revolver Major N N N N 186.7657 42.93%

31 Perkinson, Brad TY62907 C Revolver Major N N N N 176.5322 40.58%

32 Taylor, Todd X Revolver Minor N N N N 175.9872 40.46%

33 Travis, Mark FY49407 U Revolver Major N N N N 172.1057 39.56%

34 Collier, Susan X Revolver Minor Y N N N 171.5565 39.44%

35 Sullivan, Gerald X Revolver Minor N N N N 169.9106 39.06%

36 Archdale, Phil TY42587 C Revolver Minor N N N N Super Senior 166.8798 38.36%

37 Dick, Russ A29112 U Revolver Major N N N N 165.3558 38.01%

38 Santarossa, Larry X Revolver Minor N N N N 162.2392 37.30%

39 McFarland, Lee TY44231 U Revolver Minor N N N N 156.5549 35.99%

40 Taraszka, Tony REENTRY X Revolver Minor N N N N 155.5873 35.77%

41 Hall, Willie X Revolver Minor N N N N Super Senior 153.5087 35.29%

42 Travis, Mark REENTRY U Revolver Minor N N N N 151.0564 34.73%

43 Santarossa, John X Revolver Minor N N N N 140.6155 32.33%

44 McFarland, Lee REENTRY U Revolver Minor N N N N 134.2122 30.85%

45 Gross, James TY57941 C Revolver Major N N N N Senior 120.5819 27.72%

46 Drake, Gail A63353 D Revolver Minor Y N N N 119.6030 27.49%

47 Drake, Gail REENTRY D Revolver Minor Y N N N 102.4047 23.54%

Stage: 1 Steely Speed IV

Place Name No. Class Division Pts Pen Time Hit Fact Stg Pts Stg %

R1 Leatham, Rob 121 U Revolver 30 0 4.33 6.9284 30.0000 100.00%

2 Leatham, Rob 59 U Revolver 30 0 5.28 5.6818 24.6022 82.01%

3 Shepherd, Scott 117 U Revolver 30 0 5.31 5.6497 24.4632 81.54%

R4 Reilly, Chad 124 U Revolver 30 0 5.52 5.4348 23.5327 78.44%

5 Stieber, Jason 66 B Revolver 30 0 6.12 4.9020 21.2257 70.75%

R6 Stieber, Jason 126 B Revolver 30 0 6.26 4.7923 20.7507 69.17%

R7 Schrock, Brian 101 U Revolver 30 0 6.38 4.7022 20.3605 67.87%

R8 Drake, Larry 125 C Revolver 30 0 6.60 4.5455 19.6820 65.61%

R9 Warren, Rudy 106 B Revolver 30 0 6.75 4.4444 19.2443 64.15%

10 Mears, Mike 100 B Revolver 30 0 7.29 4.1152 17.8188 59.40%

11 Slade, John 115 U Revolver 30 0 7.35 4.0816 17.6733 58.91%

R12 Rodriguez, John A. 120 A Revolver 30 0 8.01 3.7453 16.2172 54.06%

R13 Brethour, Richard 116 U Revolver 30 0 8.21 3.6541 15.8223 52.74%

R14 Perkinson, Brad 118 C Revolver 30 0 8.24 3.6408 15.7647 52.55%

15 Brethour, Richard 92 U Revolver 30 0 8.32 3.6058 15.6131 52.04%

R16 Taraszka, Tony 97 X Revolver 30 0 8.43 3.5587 15.4092 51.36%

17 Collier, Susan 102 X Revolver 30 0 8.75 3.4286 14.8459 49.49%

18 Santarossa, John 110 X Revolver 30 0 8.83 3.3975 14.7112 49.04%

R19 Krushak, Scott 127 B Revolver 30 0 9.45 3.1746 13.7460 45.82%

20 Hall, Willie 109 X Revolver 30 0 9.67 3.1024 13.4334 44.78%

21 Schrock, Brian 79 U Revolver 30 0 9.71 3.0896 13.3780 44.59%

22 Slobodzian, Kurt 108 D Revolver 30 0 9.84 3.0488 13.2013 44.00%

23 Rodriguez, John A. 56 A Revolver 30 0 10.27 2.9211 12.6484 42.16%

24 Drake, Gail 123 D Revolver 30 0 10.87 2.7599 11.9504 39.83%

R25 D'Amato, Frank 104 C Revolver 30 0 10.98 2.7322 11.8304 39.43%

R26 McFarland, Lee 119 U Revolver 30 0 11.24 2.6690 11.5568 38.52%

27 Lake, Ryan 114 U Revolver 30 0 11.84 2.5338 10.9714 36.57%

28 Warren, Rudy 41 B Revolver 30 0 12.14 2.4712 10.7003 35.67%

29 Drake, Larry 53 C Revolver 30 0 12.35 2.4291 10.5180 35.06%

30 Perkinson, Brad 51 C Revolver 30 0 12.58 2.3847 10.3258 34.42%

31 D'Amato, Frank 71 C Revolver 30 0 12.77 2.3493 10.1725 33.91%

32 Taylor, Todd 103 X Revolver 30 0 13.85 2.1661 9.3792 31.26%

R33 Caudill, Paul 113 B Revolver 30 0 13.99 2.1444 9.2853 30.95%

34 Krushak, Scott 68 B Revolver 25 10 7.62 1.9685 8.5236 28.41%

35 Dick, Russ 96 U Revolver 30 0 15.91 1.8856 8.1647 27.22%

36 Sullivan, Gerald 112 X Revolver 30 0 16.28 1.8428 7.9793 26.60%

37 Mabanag, Al 122 U Revolver 30 0 16.52 1.8160 7.8633 26.21%

38 Perrin, Dennis 95 B Revolver 30 0 16.65 1.8018 7.8018 26.01%

39 McFarland, Lee 44 U Revolver 30 0 17.55 1.7094 7.4017 24.67%

R40 Travis, Mark 105 U Revolver 30 0 17.96 1.6704 7.2328 24.11%

41 Santarossa, Larry 111 X Revolver 30 0 18.49 1.6225 7.0254 23.42%

42 Caudill, Paul 11 B Revolver 30 0 20.16 1.4881 6.4435 21.48%

43 Travis, Mark 88 U Revolver 30 0 20.94 1.4327 6.2036 20.68%

44 Gross, James 107 C Revolver 30 0 21.61 1.3882 6.0109 20.04%

R45 Drake, Gail 52 D Revolver 30 0 22.67 1.3233 5.7299 19.10%

46 Archdale, Phil 99 C Revolver 30 0 28.78 1.0424 4.5136 15.05%

R47 Snipes, Duane 98 U Revolver 25 10 17.35 0.8646 3.7437 12.48%

Stage: 2 Stage 2

Place Name No. Class Division Pts Pen Time Hit Fact Stg Pts Stg %

R1 Leatham, Rob 121 U Revolver 141 0 20.07 7.0254 145.0000 100.00%

R2 Brethour, Richard 116 U Revolver 135 0 20.86 6.4717 133.5720 92.12%

3 Leatham, Rob 59 U Revolver 143 0 23.12 6.1851 127.6567 88.04%

R4 Rodriguez, John A. 120 A Revolver 139 0 24.63 5.6435 116.4784 80.33%

R5 Caudill, Paul 113 B Revolver 131 0 23.81 5.5019 113.5559 78.31%

6 Brethour, Richard 92 U Revolver 136 0 25.61 5.3104 109.6034 75.59%

R7 Schrock, Brian 101 U Revolver 141 0 27.97 5.0411 104.0453 71.76%

8 Santarossa, Larry 111 X Revolver 136 10 26.29 4.7927 98.9184 68.22%

9 Shepherd, Scott 117 U Revolver 130 10 25.38 4.7281 97.5851 67.30%

R10 Stieber, Jason 126 B Revolver 140 0 29.82 4.6948 96.8978 66.83%

11 Stieber, Jason 66 B Revolver 141 0 30.56 4.6139 95.2281 65.67%

12 Rodriguez, John A. 56 A Revolver 137 0 30.15 4.5439 93.7833 64.68%

R13 Warren, Rudy 106 B Revolver 139 0 30.73 4.5233 93.3582 64.38%

R14 Krushak, Scott 127 B Revolver 129 0 28.69 4.4963 92.8009 64.00%

R15 Perkinson, Brad 118 C Revolver 141 0 31.64 4.4564 91.9774 63.43%

R16 Reilly, Chad 124 U Revolver 141 0 31.68 4.4508 91.8618 63.35%

R17 Snipes, Duane 98 U Revolver 126 10 27.00 4.2963 88.6730 61.15%

18 Mears, Mike 100 B Revolver 139 0 32.96 4.2172 87.0405 60.03%

19 Perrin, Dennis 95 B Revolver 145 0 34.49 4.2041 86.7701 59.84%

20 Slade, John 115 U Revolver 139 0 33.53 4.1455 85.5606 59.01%

21 Schrock, Brian 79 U Revolver 135 0 32.99 4.0921 84.4585 58.25%

22 D'Amato, Frank 71 C Revolver 135 0 35.99 3.7510 77.4184 53.39%

R23 D'Amato, Frank 104 C Revolver 135 0 36.10 3.7396 77.1831 53.23%

R24 Drake, Larry 125 C Revolver 122 10 30.09 3.7222 76.8240 52.98%

25 Drake, Larry 53 C Revolver 142 0 38.94 3.6466 75.2636 51.91%

26 Dick, Russ 96 U Revolver 140 0 39.89 3.5097 72.4381 49.96%

27 Collier, Susan 102 X Revolver 138 10 36.56 3.5011 72.2606 49.83%

28 Caudill, Paul 11 B Revolver 141 0 40.39 3.4910 72.0521 49.69%

29 Warren, Rudy 41 B Revolver 135 0 38.69 3.4893 72.0170 49.67%

30 Krushak, Scott 68 B Revolver 137 0 39.87 3.4362 70.9211 48.91%

31 Mabanag, Al 122 U Revolver 144 0 42.04 3.4253 70.6961 48.76%

32 Lake, Ryan 114 U Revolver 141 0 43.29 3.2571 67.2246 46.36%

R33 McFarland, Lee 119 U Revolver 125 0 38.79 3.2225 66.5104 45.87%

34 Archdale, Phil 99 C Revolver 141 0 46.14 3.0559 63.0719 43.50%

35 Sullivan, Gerald 112 X Revolver 137 0 45.43 3.0156 62.2402 42.92%

36 Slobodzian, Kurt 108 D Revolver 143 0 47.94 2.9829 61.5652 42.46%

37 Travis, Mark 88 U Revolver 140 0 49.11 2.8507 58.8367 40.58%

R38 Taraszka, Tony 97 X Revolver 129 0 49.04 2.6305 54.2919 37.44%

R39 Travis, Mark 105 U Revolver 135 0 51.67 2.6127 53.9245 37.19%

40 McFarland, Lee 44 U Revolver 126 20 41.34 2.5641 52.9215 36.50%

41 Hall, Willie 109 X Revolver 131 30 42.29 2.3883 49.2931 34.00%

42 Perkinson, Brad 51 C Revolver 126 30 42.90 2.2378 46.1868 31.85%

43 Taylor, Todd 103 X Revolver 115 50 30.41 2.1375 44.1167 30.43%

44 Gross, James 107 C Revolver 141 0 67.56 2.0870 43.0744 29.71%

45 Santarossa, John 110 X Revolver 129 30 53.56 1.8484 38.1499 26.31%

R46 Drake, Gail 52 D Revolver 135 0 75.54 1.7871 36.8847 25.44%

47 Drake, Gail 123 D Revolver 141 0 89.75 1.5710 32.4245 22.36%

Stage: 3 Stage 3

Place Name No. Class Division Pts Pen Time Hit Fact Stg Pts Stg %

R1 Leatham, Rob 121 U Revolver 138 0 23.92 5.7692 140.0000 100.00%

2 Brethour, Richard 92 U Revolver 136 0 27.46 4.9527 120.1862 85.85%

3 Leatham, Rob 59 U Revolver 130 0 28.61 4.5439 110.2659 78.76%

4 Stieber, Jason 66 B Revolver 138 0 33.18 4.1591 100.9280 72.09%

5 Shepherd, Scott 117 U Revolver 136 0 32.77 4.1501 100.7096 71.94%

R6 Brethour, Richard 116 U Revolver 130 0 31.85 4.0816 99.0474 70.75%

R7 Stieber, Jason 126 B Revolver 136 0 34.23 3.9731 96.4144 68.87%

R8 Schrock, Brian 101 U Revolver 136 0 34.34 3.9604 96.1062 68.65%

R9 Rodriguez, John A. 120 A Revolver 126 0 33.38 3.7747 91.5999 65.43%

R10 Caudill, Paul 113 B Revolver 108 0 30.54 3.5363 85.8147 61.30%

R11 Snipes, Duane 98 U Revolver 121 10 31.93 3.4764 84.3611 60.26%

R12 Krushak, Scott 127 B Revolver 122 0 35.64 3.4231 83.0677 59.33%

R13 Perkinson, Brad 118 C Revolver 128 0 38.22 3.3490 81.2695 58.05%

14 Schrock, Brian 79 U Revolver 132 0 40.13 3.2893 79.8208 57.01%

15 Perrin, Dennis 95 B Revolver 135 0 41.30 3.2688 79.3233 56.66%

R16 Drake, Larry 125 C Revolver 120 0 37.37 3.2111 77.9231 55.66%

17 Mears, Mike 100 B Revolver 140 0 43.88 3.1905 77.4232 55.30%

18 Slade, John 115 U Revolver 117 10 33.60 3.1845 77.2776 55.20%

19 Rodriguez, John A. 56 A Revolver 126 10 37.31 3.1091 75.4479 53.89%

20 Caudill, Paul 11 B Revolver 127 0 41.56 3.0558 74.1545 52.97%

21 Taylor, Todd 103 X Revolver 128 0 42.77 2.9928 72.6257 51.88%

22 Lake, Ryan 114 U Revolver 130 0 46.14 2.8175 68.3717 48.84%

23 Krushak, Scott 68 B Revolver 133 0 47.49 2.8006 67.9616 48.54%

24 Warren, Rudy 41 B Revolver 127 20 39.14 2.7338 66.3406 47.39%

R25 Warren, Rudy 106 B Revolver 116 0 43.06 2.6939 65.3723 46.69%

26 Collier, Susan 102 X Revolver 124 0 46.16 2.6863 65.1879 46.56%

27 D'Amato, Frank 71 C Revolver 125 10 46.95 2.4494 59.4391 42.46%

28 Slobodzian, Kurt 108 D Revolver 124 0 51.68 2.3994 58.2258 41.59%

29 Drake, Larry 53 C Revolver 130 10 50.90 2.3576 57.2114 40.87%

30 Perkinson, Brad 51 C Revolver 128 0 54.89 2.3319 56.5877 40.42%

R31 D'Amato, Frank 104 C Revolver 129 10 52.01 2.2880 55.5224 39.66%

32 Travis, Mark 88 U Revolver 125 0 55.36 2.2579 54.7920 39.14%

33 Archdale, Phil 99 C Revolver 138 0 62.17 2.2197 53.8650 38.48%

R34 Travis, Mark 105 U Revolver 120 0 56.10 2.1390 51.9067 37.08%

35 Mabanag, Al 122 U Revolver 134 10 58.36 2.1247 51.5597 36.83%

36 Santarossa, Larry 111 X Revolver 110 20 44.03 2.0441 49.6038 35.43%

37 Santarossa, John 110 X Revolver 123 10 57.39 1.9690 47.7813 34.13%

R38 Reilly, Chad 124 U Revolver 130 0 68.15 1.9076 46.2913 33.07%

39 Sullivan, Gerald 112 X Revolver 115 10 55.12 1.9049 46.2258 33.02%

40 McFarland, Lee 44 U Revolver 113 10 54.11 1.9035 46.1918 32.99%

41 Hall, Willie 109 X Revolver 130 0 69.29 1.8762 45.5294 32.52%

R42 McFarland, Lee 119 U Revolver 118 20 54.22 1.8075 43.8622 31.33%

R43 Taraszka, Tony 97 X Revolver 123 10 62.88 1.7971 43.6099 31.15%

44 Dick, Russ 96 U Revolver 114 40 42.53 1.7399 42.2218 30.16%

45 Drake, Gail 123 D Revolver 126 0 72.76 1.7317 42.0228 30.02%

46 Gross, James 107 C Revolver 124 10 73.63 1.5483 37.5723 26.84%

R47 Drake, Gail 52 D Revolver 112 20 78.01 1.1793 28.6178 20.44%

Stage: 4 Stage 4

Place Name No. Class Division Pts Pen Time Hit Fact Stg Pts Stg %

R1 Leatham, Rob 121 U Revolver 114 0 20.70 5.5072 120.0000 100.00%

2 Leatham, Rob 59 U Revolver 111 0 21.06 5.2707 114.8467 95.71%

R3 Schrock, Brian 101 U Revolver 112 0 26.68 4.1979 91.4708 76.23%

4 Drake, Larry 53 C Revolver 103 10 23.88 3.8945 84.8598 70.72%

5 Shepherd, Scott 117 U Revolver 110 0 28.97 3.7970 82.7353 68.95%

6 Brethour, Richard 92 U Revolver 106 0 28.35 3.7390 81.4715 67.89%

R7 Caudill, Paul 113 B Revolver 102 0 27.64 3.6903 80.4104 67.01%

8 Stieber, Jason 66 B Revolver 108 10 27.46 3.5688 77.7629 64.80%

R9 Stieber, Jason 126 B Revolver 112 0 31.61 3.5432 77.2051 64.34%

10 Mears, Mike 100 B Revolver 112 0 32.10 3.4891 76.0263 63.36%

R11 Perkinson, Brad 118 C Revolver 108 0 31.02 3.4816 75.8629 63.22%

R12 Drake, Larry 125 C Revolver 108 0 31.67 3.4102 74.3071 61.92%

R13 Warren, Rudy 106 B Revolver 108 0 31.89 3.3866 73.7929 61.49%

R14 D'Amato, Frank 104 C Revolver 112 0 33.21 3.3725 73.4856 61.24%

15 Slade, John 115 U Revolver 100 0 30.12 3.3201 72.3438 60.29%

16 Schrock, Brian 79 U Revolver 114 0 34.39 3.3149 72.2305 60.19%

R17 Krushak, Scott 127 B Revolver 110 0 33.28 3.3053 72.0214 60.02%

18 Krushak, Scott 68 B Revolver 117 0 35.98 3.2518 70.8556 59.05%

R19 Brethour, Richard 116 U Revolver 90 0 27.99 3.2154 70.0625 58.39%

20 Perkinson, Brad 51 C Revolver 101 10 31.26 2.9111 63.4319 52.86%

21 D'Amato, Frank 71 C Revolver 104 0 36.00 2.8889 62.9481 52.46%

R22 Rodriguez, John A. 120 A Revolver 98 20 28.33 2.7533 59.9935 49.99%

R23 Reilly, Chad 124 U Revolver 103 10 34.14 2.7241 59.3572 49.46%

24 Rodriguez, John A. 56 A Revolver 97 10 32.39 2.6860 58.5270 48.77%

25 Slobodzian, Kurt 108 D Revolver 114 0 42.87 2.6592 57.9431 48.29%

26 Lake, Ryan 114 U Revolver 116 0 43.83 2.6466 57.6685 48.06%

27 Mabanag, Al 122 U Revolver 116 0 44.62 2.5997 56.6466 47.21%

28 Caudill, Paul 11 B Revolver 104 0 40.76 2.5515 55.5963 46.33%

29 Sullivan, Gerald 112 X Revolver 98 0 39.94 2.4537 53.4653 44.55%

30 Perrin, Dennis 95 B Revolver 102 20 34.10 2.4047 52.3976 43.66%

31 Travis, Mark 88 U Revolver 105 10 39.60 2.3990 52.2734 43.56%

32 McFarland, Lee 44 U Revolver 114 0 49.64 2.2965 50.0399 41.70%

33 Taylor, Todd 103 X Revolver 89 10 34.52 2.2885 49.8656 41.55%

34 Warren, Rudy 41 B Revolver 95 10 40.12 2.1186 46.1636 38.47%

35 Archdale, Phil 99 C Revolver 110 0 52.76 2.0849 45.4293 37.86%

36 Hall, Willie 109 X Revolver 103 10 44.78 2.0768 45.2528 37.71%

R37 Snipes, Duane 98 U Revolver 93 40 26.59 1.9932 43.4311 36.19%

38 Dick, Russ 96 U Revolver 102 20 42.01 1.9519 42.5312 35.44%

R39 Taraszka, Tony 97 X Revolver 96 0 49.48 1.9402 42.2763 35.23%

40 Santarossa, John 110 X Revolver 102 20 44.70 1.8345 39.9731 33.31%

R41 Travis, Mark 105 U Revolver 116 0 66.53 1.7436 37.9924 31.66%

42 Gross, James 107 C Revolver 102 20 52.67 1.5569 33.9243 28.27%

43 Drake, Gail 123 D Revolver 102 20 53.81 1.5239 33.2053 27.67%

R44 Drake, Gail 52 D Revolver 101 10 63.61 1.4306 31.1723 25.98%

45 Collier, Susan 102 X Revolver 83 40 48.64 0.8840 19.2621 16.05%

R46 McFarland, Lee 119 U Revolver 75 50 44.35 0.5637 12.2828 10.24%

47 Santarossa, Larry 111 X Revolver 73 60 42.33 0.3071 6.6916 5.58%

[TGO]

Well, the great experiment is over and went better than expected! Brad will need to explain the results as to who shot what. I'm not really sure which scores were 8 shooters or open or 6 minor. The obvious fact though is that we had a fantastic turnout! IDPA, ICORE and USPSA shooters were in attendance. There can be no doubt that shooters want to compete in Revolver division in the Phoenix area.

I kinda feel the big turnout was due to interest in the experiment drummed up through this forum. Also, having the afternoon be a revo only match, you knew you weren't shooting against other than revolvers. Maybe the most important thing for the division to flourish is to have Revo only matches?

All we did was shoot the exact same match, no changes that was fired in the morning. When we told the morning match organizers they could leave and we'd tear down the stages and get the scoring done for our match, they were happy to oblige!

Now, we will do this a couple more times and see if it maintains it's participation.

Edited February 18, 2013 by TGO

[No.343]

Did the shooters shoot their primary gun in the morning and the eight shot as the reentry in the afternoon in all cases?

[bdpaz]

I was a bit overwhelmed by the logistics of the large turnout and didn't keep track of the details as well as I had intended.

Most of the Major shooters were in the morning. If there is "REENTRY" listed it was their second gun in the afternoon. The Major shooters without a REENTRY (I think there were three) were shooting for the first time in the afternoon.

The majority of the Minor shooters were 8 shot. The 6 shot minor shooters that I'm aware of were Frank D'Amato (who is frequently shoots USPSA with his 6 shot minor gun) and one or both of the Santarossas (who normally shoot ICORE).

The Open shooters were Gail Drake on her second gun and Mike Mears. Everyone else was legal for USPSA Revolver division except for the 8 shot minor exemption. We had a few 6 shot speed loader shooters but didn't keep track of them separately as they are legal now.

I'll add more details and comments this evening after work.

[pskys2]

Rob, just going off of your results (I would expect you to be the most consistent irregardless of the platform) in a normal USPSA match setting it looks like 8 minor gives about a 10-15% advantage. Not huge but significant.

Rodriguez was at 10% and Drake at 5%, the one difference was Brethour who was better with 6 major by 3%.

What was your perception of the COF and handicaps?

[TGO]

I think Scott Shepherd was open also? Thanks for all the work B-Rad, I know it turned into a lot more time and effort for you than we anticipated! I'm really happy with the turnout.

As far as the minor 8 versus major 6 question, the results suggest in this match minor option was best. This is no shocker as this cof was never intended to be 6 shot neutral. It wasn't bad, but I only did 1 standing load with the 8 shot, because I missed a popper, same as one of my standing loads for the 6 shooter. But, the telling difference were the 2 necessary standing loads with the 6 that I didn't have with the 8. For me that's at least 2-3 seconds each. I also had to shoot 1 extra position with the 6 shooter that I did not with the 8. these were the telling differences in the match. Luckily the classifier was a 6 shot affair, but even then I had to be more cautious with the major as I did not have the two security rounds of the minor. Across the board, I never had an extra shot in either setup that didn't cause an extra load, just was able to shoot better sequences and do less total loads with the 8 shooter. Points, oddly enough were about the same between guns? This suggests I shot more controlled and Accurately with the minor.

I can tell you I do not think I would shoot minor just to have the extra rounds If that didn't save me doing standing loads. That I may do a load or two more on the move I might absorb to get better points. Would depend on the difficulty of the shots and the ease of availability of the A zone. In an all steel match or one that saves standing loads, no question I'd shoot minor. Either way I'm practicing with minor to save the wear and tear on me and the gun.

As a test to see how it runs and is received by the shooters, I think we ought to consider doing the next one as 6 shot friendly. To me that means not to control the total number of loads required by either capacity, but to limit the number of forced standing reloads to the same for both capacities. Just have to pay attention to the setup.

I think more clubs ought to try the match after the match, revolver division only with the outlaw rules. It appears it may appeal to the larger than USPSA revo crowd?

Expect more opinions soon.

Did I mention this whole thing was a lot of fun?

[Bubber]

It seems to point out that they shot faster with minor and did not give up that many points to major. Richard Brethour gave up 30 point on Stage four because of his hits it appears. And made him 18 points different in his Major and Minor score, with the Major garnering more points His stage three also was off. His time was slower with the 8 shot and 6 less points. His stage 2 was a difference of time with his 8 shot 5 seconds faster and only 1 point difference. The all steel stage was separated by 0.11 of a second going to his 8 shot. Chris C. and I had a similar anomaly at our experiment at Old Fort. It had two stages where th 8 shot had now significant advantage. I think I won those stages and where the 8 shot had a great advantage, well just say I still have Chris's foot print on my backside. We only shot through once and I think we were both off our game plan. I did spot him maybe 75 points on the first stage due to equipment failure, wel that's my story and I am sticking to it, no matter what the facts says will post the results when we get them. later rdd.

[Matt Griffin]

Interesting results. If I get the gumption up I might try to get them into excel and see what's what. Offhand, I'd say first we have to throw out Mr. Leatham's performance, simply because he can shoot points at will whereas most folks will struggle a bit to switch mental gears; he typically shot both better times AND better points with the minor gun. I'd also like to hear about which gun/discipline is the usual game for the other shooters, I could see ICORE guys performing differently than Steel guys.

[bdpaz]

I think Scott Shepherd was open also?

Yes, Scott Shepherd did shoot Open and Phil Archdale may also have been running a dot. I think Scott & Mike Mears were the only high placing Open shooter so we should disregard their scores in comparing Major and Minor results.

Later I'll try and identify who normally shoots what. I think Scott Krushak and Brian Schrock are the only ones in this match who regularly shoot USPSA with both 6 shot Major and 8 shot minor (in L10), and Brian has only recently begun shooting major 625. And before we all get too deep into data analysis, let's remember that this is just one match and that isn't intended to offer The Answer.

Edited February 18, 2013 by bdpaz

[bdpaz]

Most importantly, we had our own flag!

[alecmc]

That is an awesome logo on the flag.

better copyright that before I steal it.

[Carmoney]

Goddam, that's a cool flag! Makes me wonder if this "Outlaw Series" is going to turn out to be more than just a test-bed.

[ChrisC]

They should have used an 8 shot cylinder

[JohnRodriguez]

I'm thinking about submitting stage 4 for the IRC. Long distance shoots with barrels besides them.

[Bubber]

No 343 sent me a spreadsheet he came up with and I added some stuff to it.

At Rob's level he showed a 13.25% improvement, that is quite a bit.

Less experienced shooters some had a higer increase.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Bubber

[bdpaz]

Rather than give specific details on each shooter, which I think would just lead to over analyzing and lending too much weight to this one match, I'll thow out some random thoughts and observations:

1. It was fun!

2. Rich Brethour arrived in the twilight zone between morning and afternoon so he shot his Major gun by himself. Going to a stage, immediately doing his walk through, then shooting, then moving on. Maybe this helped his Major score, maybe not, but something to consider.

3. Scott Krushak told me the he shot Major conventionally (my terminology), concentrating on getting his hits, then pushed for speed with his 8 shot Minor gun and he clearly did much better with his 8 shot minor run. My opinion from watching the others is that most didn't make a conscious effort to shoot their two guns differently, but just naturally went a little faster with their minor guns. Reduced recoil, less pressure knowing an additional shot or two was available, or... I don't know. (Maybe a byproduct of it just being more fun? )

4. Many planned to use all 8 shots when shooting their Minor guns, putting them in the same boat as when shooting 6 Major - a single miss disrupted the plan. Stage 4 which was four 6-shot target groups with a mix of small and large movements and consisting of steel plus easy and hard paper, could either be shot as four groups of six or three groups of eight (carrying 4 rounds through a major position change). Most that I saw planned to shoot all 8 shots when using their Minor gun but, if I remember correctly, Larry Drake chose to stay with six planned before reloading even with his 8 shot minor gun. He was significantly faster then his first run with the 6 shooter with about the same points, where most others scored better but weren't much faster. Again, I'm not saying this is significant but it is something to consider.

5. The top 30 or so shooters regularly shoot USPSA with semi autos but rarely with revolvers, but do shot revo frequently in ICORE and Tuesday Night Steel. I hope others will correct me if I'm wrong but the exceptions are Rich Brethour, who mainly shoots ICORE and TNS (or its Thursday night equivalent at Phx Rod & Gun club), Brian Schrock who has been shooting ICORE but has just recently started shooting USPSA (but is very good - damn kids!), Frank D'Amato who shoots 6 shot minor revo in anything and everything he can find, and Scott Krushak who shoots five or six different guns every USPSA match and gets in a lot of revo days.

6. We need more matches like this to compile accurate data because weird things went wrong at random times, so don't sweat what order people shot their guns. On stage 1 a shooter hammered away at hard cover steel wondering why the the popper he thought he was hitting didn't fall. I tanked stage 2 with my major gun when a band aid on my left thumb came loose during a reload and flopped under the edge of the moon clip as I was reloading. So do try this at home. And don't just offer it, promote it! Invite people personally, send out notices asking for shooters to participate, make the non-hardcore feel wanted. The worst that can happen is that you will have an enjoyable afternoon shooting revolvers.

7. It was fun!

Edited February 19, 2013 by bdpaz

[Bubber]

I tried to embed the spreadsheet and it just spread the data all over the place

[WheelGunHunter]

First, Brad thank you for the time and effort that you put into do all this, the flags are awesome by the way. I will be attending next month with both 625 and 627. I hope that the stages are set up how rob described as 6 shot friendly. I believe that the 6 shot friendly stages will give us a more accurate comparison of 6 major vs 8 minor. I think the outlaw match results are what we would see at club level matches like RMAP, RSPP, and Hosemasters. Those are all great matches but from my experience they are not always 6 shot friendly. Don't take that as a complaint either I truly love to shoot the non 6 shot friendly course because it is more challenging and it pushes me out of my comfort zone. Lastly, I have much more time behind my 627 than my 625 that is why I have a difference of 14.27% between my two guns.

Thanks

That damn kid: Brian Schrock

[lora]

Ok, so we have some, even if limited data, from this match and the analysis will go on, but i would like to hear from the members who turned out if this major minor thing would increase the number of attendees and revolver div. turnout. Additionally, as an after thought with this limited data, how does it compare to the SStk differences between major/minor, are the %'s of difference similar? Why does minor seam at a disadvantage in that div. vs a major at a deficit in rev., wouldn't the difference between the two be similar enough, even if one PF was dominant, to suggest if the attendance was higher that the mission was accomplished.

[bdpaz]

Ok, so we have some, even if limited data, from this match and the analysis will go on, but i would like to hear from the members who turned out if this major minor thing would increase the number of attendees and revolver div. turnout. Additionally, as an after thought with this limited data, how does it compare to the SStk differences between major/minor, are the %'s of difference similar? Why does minor seam at a disadvantage in that div. vs a major at a deficit in rev., wouldn't the difference between the two be similar enough, even if one PF was dominant, to suggest if the attendance was higher that the mission was accomplished.

I suspect that some of the difference between Revolver and Single Stack major vs minor is that in revo the lower capacity gun will often require a standing reload on a stage built around 8 shots per position, where in SS the two extra rounds for minor are more of a bonus.

As for the increased attendance, we need a few (or many) more matches to see how much of it was due to the unique nature of an experimental, first time match. (Although there were clearly more who showed up to shoot 8 minor than 6 major, and I would have just shot 8 shot minor if we didn't need 6 shot major data!)

[lora]

Ok, so we have some, even if limited data, from this match and the analysis will go on, but i would like to hear from the members who turned out if this major minor thing would increase the number of attendees and revolver div. turnout. Additionally, as an after thought with this limited data, how does it compare to the SStk differences between major/minor, are the %'s of difference similar? Why does minor seam at a disadvantage in that div. vs a major at a deficit in rev., wouldn't the difference between the two be similar enough, even if one PF was dominant, to suggest if the attendance was higher that the mission was accomplished.

I suspect that some of the difference between Revolver and Single Stack major vs minor is that in revo the lower capacity gun will often require a standing reload on a stage built around 8 shots per position, where in SS the two extra rounds for minor are more of a bonus.

As for the increased attendance, we need a few (or many) more matches to see how much of it was due to the unique nature of an experimental, first time match. (Although there were clearly more who showed up to shoot 8 minor than 6 major, and I would have just shot 8 shot minor if we didn't need 6 shot major data!)

You missed my point on the rev/Sstk question. Pskys2 indicated a % advantage of the minor vs major, we are all well aware of the reload time of 6v8 in rev. and sstk reloads, this is about the comparison of the advantage or disadvantage by %. I haven't shoot SStk until now but it seems the majority of competitive shooters use the major scoring vs minor regardless of the increase mag capacity. If that is due to a % of advantage, how much is it and how does it compare to the advantage in the rev. Issue we are talking about.? It seems that all have a % of advantage or disadvantage so how does this differ from our 6major v. 8minor in revolver dilemma with what little results we have seen. I don't think it is any different, but does put players on the field, and money in the bank.

[bdpaz]

You missed my point on the rev/Sstk question. Pskys2 indicated a % advantage of the minor vs major, we are all well aware of the reload time of 6v8 in rev. and sstk reloads, this is about the comparison of the advantage or disadvantage by %. I haven't shoot SStk until now but it seems the majority of competitive shooters use the major scoring vs minor regardless of the increase mag capacity. If that is due to a % of advantage, how much is it and how does it compare to the advantage in the rev. Issue we are talking about.? It seems that all have a % of advantage or disadvantage so how does this differ from our 6major v. 8minor in revolver dilemma with what little results we have seen. I don't think it is any different, but does put players on the field, and money in the bank.

I don't think you'll find an equivalent test with SS major vs minor, but I think there is a significant difference between 6 vs 8 and 8 vs 10 because of the not requiring more than 8 shots per position thing. I shoot SS quite a bit and there the trade off is two additional shots available but not required, at the constant expense of minor scoring. I shoot .38 super minor because I like the feel of it but if I care about the score I break out my .40 and shoot major.

The key difference with SS is that you usually have the same number of reloads with either major or minor - reloading whenever you're moving. With a revolver you will have more reloads with 6 than with 8 on most every stage, and they won't be during the "down time" of changing positions. So 8 shot minor offers shorter stage time, with the question being does minor scoring offset that gain.

[wheelie]

snipped......

As a test to see how it runs and is received by the shooters, I think we ought to consider doing the next one as 6 shot friendly. To me that means not to control the total number of loads required by either capacity, but to limit the number of forced standing reloads to the same for both capacities. Just have to pay attention to the setup.

snipped...

Wish I was not so far away - sounds like y'all had a great time.

Next time try a 6 neutral match. I think you'll find the competition even tighter.

You could even let the SS guys in on the action.

[Bubber]

The RO at Old Fort was nice enough to let ChrisC and myself do a little experiment. I shot an 8 shot minor and Chris shot the 6 shot major. Sorry we did not shoot our best. On Stage 3, our first stage I had ewuipment issues with the extractor rod being loose. The six shot friendly stages I fared a little better but he trounced me on the 8 shot stages. I did not shoot well, and Chris had trouble alos so the data may not be useful. But as always we had fun! which is why I shoot... Later rdd

REVOLVER OVERALL

Place Name USPSA Class Division PF Lady Mil Law For Age Points Stg %

1 Comer, Chris TY43646 B Revolver Major N N N N 744.2893 100.00%

2 Davis, Roger A12423 A Revolver Minor N N N N Senior 686.2160 92.20%

REVOLVER STAGES

Stage: 1 Fast'n Furious

Place Name No. Class Division Pts Pen Time Hit Fact Stg Pts Stg %

1 Comer, Chris 3 B Revolver 57 0 10.43 5.4650 60.0000 100.00%

2 Davis, Roger 4 A Revolver 58 0 11.35 5.1101 56.1036 93.51%

Stage: 2 Steel Fix

Place Name No. Class Division Pts Pen Time Hit Fact Stg Pts Stg %

1 Comer, Chris 3 B Revolver 136 0 41.66 3.2645 140.0000 100.00%

2 Davis, Roger 4 A Revolver 135 10 45.91 2.7227 116.7646 83.40%

Stage: 3 Steel Playground

Place Name No. Class Division Pts Pen Time Hit Fact Stg Pts Stg %

1 Comer, Chris 3 B Revolver 142 0 39.23 3.6197 150.0000 100.00%

2 Davis, Roger 4 A Revolver 148 0 60.36 2.4520 101.6106 67.74%

Stage: 4 Counting Down

Place Name No. Class Division Pts Pen Time Hit Fact Stg Pts Stg %

1 Comer, Chris 3 B Revolver 135 10 24.71 5.0587 140.0000 100.00%

2 Davis, Roger 4 A Revolver 120 0 27.28 4.3988 121.7372 86.96%

Stage: 5 Neutral????

Place Name No. Class Division Pts Pen Time Hit Fact Stg Pts Stg %

1 Davis, Roger 4 A Revolver 129 10 31.61 3.7646 140.0000 100.00%

2 Comer, Chris 3 B Revolver 127 10 35.05 3.3381 124.1391 88.67%

Stage: 6 Sideways

Place Name No. Class Division Pts Pen Time Hit Fact Stg Pts Stg %

1 Davis, Roger 4 A Revolver 128 0 21.63 5.9177 150.0000 100.00%

2 Comer, Chris 3 B Revolver 145 0 28.24 5.1346 130.1502 86.77%