Help Managing Recoil

[Esther]

I am having trouble keeping a consistent grip and returning the sights quickly in between shots. My grip tends to slip during the recoil (specifically, my support hand slides forward), and I know that is a problem. I need to be able to fire many shots without my grip changing at all.

I think that my technique is solid - high up on the gun, wrists meeting, support hand angled downward a bit. I've tried experimenting with different techniques (e.g., support hand angled more or rotated forward), and nothing seems to work better than what I am currently doing.

Is this just an issue of grip strength, or could there be something else going on?

Thanks!

[GreenDragon64]

A common grip enhancement I've seen has been the addition of skateboard tape or sandpaper decal kits meant for your specific gun. I have the kits on two of my pistols and seem to group tighter and are have quicker splits.

[chipdouglas]

I'm not holding my gun but i put my hands up in a impromptu grip and my wrists don't meet..... my support hand is in front of my strong hand and the bump of the support hand is in the indent of my strong hand first nuckle (just below it).......thats kinda hard to explain

you should be able to tell if you have a good grip on the gun by shooting the gun and allowing it to stay high after the recoil..... if you fire and it goes up and left then your not getting a full grip on the gun with your support hand assuming your right handed. it should go straight up.

edit to add: also was thinking when i grip my support hand is almost full strength, my strong hand is more relaxed so as not to allow interference with trigger movement......

hope this helps. but honest i'm kinda stabbing in the dark you've probably already been thru all this

best video i seen of grip instruction was matt burkett pratical shooting volume 1

Edited February 12, 2013 by chipdouglas

[carlosa]

as mention here, grip take our a good texture job on the grip of your gun helps allot.

unfortunatly those have little effect on your suport hand sence your suporthand is mostly going to be riding in on top of your shooting hand limiting the amount of contact to the grip to the base of your palm.

one thing that can help is using a grip enhancer such as Prince Grip, or Pro Grip, put some on your hand and fingers (dont rub it in, just quick spread and let it dry) and some in the front of your shooting hand fingers (where your suport hand fingers rest). this will help allot....

now to build grip strength and proper gripping technique i suggest you spend some time doing build drills ageinst and berm with no target..

just put focus on grip the gun, and working the trigger as fast as you can possibly fan it, everytime your grip breaks start over.

going through a couple of houndred rounds of rapid fire does wonders at letting your body automatically mold it's self to how you should be holding the gun for it not to slip.

(i was able to overcome the same problem in a single session just by doing this).

anyway i hope this helps.

cheers,

Los.

[Poppa Bear]

I do not know how to explain it other than saying that your support hand should not be gripping the gun it should be gripping your strong hand. This is not to say it should not be somewhat anchored on the gun but it is more crucial that it be anchored to your strong hand. If the weak hand and strong hand are anchored together then they can both control the recoil. If they are anchored together then they cannot separate under recoil.

A second element is the amount of recoil. The recoil of a 9mm is different than that of a .357 Magnum even though they are the same size bullet. A 9mm is different than that of a .500 S&W. Many can handle the recoil of the 9mm easily, handling the recoil of a .500 S&W is difficult for most shooters.

A gun that weights 8 oz. will have a lot more recoil than one that weights 40 oz. The lighter the gun the harder it will be to keep the hands locked together under recoil. That said, what type and model of gun are you shooting?

[CocoBolo]

Double plug, ear plugs and muffs together. I don't know what kind of hand cannon you are firing but, I shoot a match full of noobs and it is extremely common to find the support hand releasing during firing. I think this relates back to those uncontrolable body impulses to blink on discharging the weapon. More deadning of the sound helps them as well as being told its happening, you have recognised the issue half solved. I had that issue in the beginning as well took a while to stop doing it.

There are things not said in your post like "my support hand grip" is tighter than the firing hand grip, which is the normal grip of a shooter.

If it is truely your grip strength, then you just need a heavier hand cannon, tupperware is a bit hard to control, where tupperware is a plastic gun, shorter the barrel the more difficult to tame. A nice heavy gun all metal like the CZ Shadow is way easier to fire and control. Handling the heavier gun will also build those muscles need to tupperware.

Noobs also tend to shoot like leisure suit larry all leaning back like in a recliner, then go off balance after the third shot, get into it nice aggressive stance, over do it a bit as you get the hang of it you can balance it out a bit, Jessie can't think of her new last name has a good agressive stance.

Hang in there it takes time, and work to get good, Los Angeles wasn't built in a day.

I know its a bit rough but just MHO.

[toothguy]

I think it's Jessie Duff now.

[Esther]

Thanks, guys!

I am shooting a CZ 75B 9mm. It's relatively heavy as far as pistols go, so I don't think the absolute amount of recoil is the problem. Though - today I shot an XD .40 and noticed a sharper kick, probably because of the lighter polymer frame.

GreenDragon64 - Thanks for the grip tape suggestion.

chipdouglas - I think my hand positioning is the same as yours; I said wrists but really the bump of my support hand is sitting right underneath the first knuckle of my firing hand.

carlosa - I'll try those rapid-fire drills the next time at the range. I hesitate to dump 9mm's like that (I almost see dollar bills flying downrange! ), but I really need to fix this.

Poppa Bear - Okay, I'll try paying more attention to anchoring my hands together.

CocoBolo - Thanks - I'm already shooting with a slight forward lean.

The funny thing is, my sights used to track very consistently when I used a nice relaxed grip with both hands and didn't introduce any extraneous pressure. (My support hand would slide forward all the time, but I still shot ragged holes at 10 yds with 10-round mags.) But ever since I learned that my grip should not change while shooting and tried to correct it, my sights haven't been tracking as beautifully.

[grapemeister]

Most of us, or at least a good many of us have been through the same thing when we 1st started practical shooting. Along with good mechanics and technique, it takes practice. When I 1st got into USPSA I thought I had to put on fresh Progrip on at the beginning of every stage. Eventually, and after my grip technique improved, I stopped using the Progrip. On occasion, and more specifically in the summer here in Florida when it's in the 90's along with 100 percent humidity, sometimes I wish I had some Progrip in my bag. But, normally wiping my hands on the shorts along with some lose sand from the ground on my hands usually does the trick.

I learned a lot about gripping the gun from Brian's book, and his post here on the forum. I eventually adopted his neutral grip idea, wich does not figure in any kind of thought of ratios between weak, and strong hand grip.

I think we all have to experiment and practice until we find the grip that is right for us. My grip has changed 4 or 5 times over the last few years, and still continues to evolve. These days I pretty much have the technique down, now I'm working on my grip strength through various exercises, and incorporating the harder, stronger grip in to my technique.

.

Having said all of that, maybe Progip or grip tape would help, at least for the time being as your technique and strength improves.

[lumpygravy]

E-

See my reply in your range diary. I've got you covered for grip tape.

There's a lot of good info in these replies. From what I've seen when you shoot, your stance is good. Perhaps you might experiment with a little more forward lean. when shooting my SS gun but you looked fine the other time you shot your CZ. I've not watched your grip specifically because I was watching for safe gun handling but now that you mention it (and now that I'm comfortable that you are safe), I'll watch your grip and how you handle multiple shots next time.

[caspian guy]

I suspect that grip tape might help (as has been suggested above).

One thing you might play with a bit in practice is to press your hands together as you are gripping. To feel what I am talking, about assume your stance with your body and arms. Instead of overlapping your hands as if holding the gun, place your palms flat together and then press them together slightly. You should feel a bit of tension on the outside of your arms and across the muscles in your chest. You don't need to press together crazy hard just enough to feel a bit of tension. This was suggested to me by an instructor I know as means to get a bit of extra clamping force (and is something I am playing with currently). You are fortunate enough to have some good help localy as there is really no subatitute for actually observing what is happening.

[TGO]

I didn't read all of this but see this issue in almost every shooter to some degree. As a rule, if the support hand is becoming dislodged it is because the gun moved rearward/upward and the support hand did not. Without this turning into a lesson, the support hand must stay in position and this means if the gun moves, so must the hand. The less it moves the less it will become dislodged.

To cause this to happen will require you to resist the guns moving more with the strong hand/arm by increasing dramatically the amount of pressure between the hands and the gun. All joints involved, wrist elbow and shoulder need to move as little as possible. Increase the pressure being exerted rearward by the support hand, and in response forward by the strong hand, and increase the closing pressure of both hands until you begin to limit your ability to manipulate the trigger. pinch hands inward towards each other, into the gun. What you can't do is relax, and control the gun. The stronger you are the better your control will be.

Most shooters can't hold the proper amount of pressures required to properly control a gun during an extended string of fire. That's ok though, as you seldom need to hold that kind of pressure for more than a few seconds.

[a matt]

Increase closing pressure with both hands untill it limits the ability to manipulate the trigger. Nicely but. E.F Hutton. Lol

[DonovanM]

1) Grip the gun comfortably and aggressively. Use as much clamping pressure with your other strong hand as you can get away with.

2) Use Mitchum roll-on antiperspirant to dry out your hands. You could also try Progrip, although sparingly - I had an issue where it got on my magazines and caused them to stick in the magwell.

3) Train grip strength. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=168601

Report back with results.

[kita]

I am having trouble keeping a consistent grip and returning the sights quickly in between shots. My grip tends to slip during the recoil (specifically, my support hand slides forward), and I know that is a problem. I need to be able to fire many shots without my grip changing at all.

I think that my technique is solid - high up on the gun, wrists meeting, support hand angled downward a bit. I've tried experimenting with different techniques (e.g., support hand angled more or rotated forward), and nothing seems to work better than what I am currently doing.

Is this just an issue of grip strength, or could there be something else going on?

Thanks!

Esther,

I found that I had to slowly walk through the steps of drawing the gun with the proper grip, step-by-step at the beginning in order to do it consistently. You have to train your muscles to do it the same way every time. Repeat it until you are able to do it faster, but do it correctly. Keep increasing speed without losing a proper grip until it becomes natural. Of course, you don't always have a perfect grip every time you draw, especially under match pressure. When that happens, and there is no time to adjust your grip, as a female I have found that it is best to pull the trigger straight back and focus more on trigger control than trying to squeeze the heck out of a bad grip on the gun.

[Ben Stoeger]

Of course, you don't always have a perfect grip every time you draw, especially under match pressure. When that happens, and there is no time to adjust your grip, as a female I have found that it is best to pull the trigger straight back and focus more on trigger control than trying to squeeze the heck out of a bad grip on the gun.

Wait a second... what does the "as a female" thing matter? I roll the same way....

[kita]

Of course, you don't always have a perfect grip every time you draw, especially under match pressure. When that happens, and there is no time to adjust your grip, as a female I have found that it is best to pull the trigger straight back and focus more on trigger control than trying to squeeze the heck out of a bad grip on the gun.

Wait a second... what does the "as a female" thing matter? I roll the same way....

Really? I figured most guys just gripped the hell out of their poorly placed grip. I don't have the grip strength for that to make the slightest bit of difference as a female. Females tend to have smaller hands/wrists with less strength. My wrists are shock absorbers, and cause malfunctions if I try a lighter spring than factory.

[kita]

Ha! Ben, I just noticed both that you are a dealer, and that you're a billboard for your books. Cool, yet funny. *Giggle*

[DonovanM]

Ha! Ben, I just noticed both that you are a dealer, and that you're a billboard for your books. Cool, yet funny. *Giggle*

I wonder if his 2013 shooting jersey will look similar

Edited February 16, 2013 by DonovanM

[Ben Stoeger]

Ha! Ben, I just noticed both that you are a dealer, and that you're a billboard for your books. Cool, yet funny. *Giggle*

My wife keeps telling me to apply myself.

[Bouttime]

Hay Ben,

I just bought your book, Champion shooting. I put it on my Kindle. I am setting my basement up to practice dry fire.

[Esther]

Kita - Thanks! And, awesome profile pic!

Donovan and Ben - Isn't this thread veering a little off topic?

[DonovanM]

Kita - Thanks! And, awesome profile pic!

Donovan and Ben - Isn't this thread veering a little off topic?

Don't look at me, I blame Kita.

[kita]

I was studying grip strengthening exercises, and learned that rock climbing walls are a fun way to strengthen your grip. A lot of gyms have them. There's an arcade by my house with one...I am so on that! How's that for off topic?

[STImoore]

I've been rock climbing for about six months now and my grip has gotten so much stronger. But watch out, it is addicting. You may wind up with another hobby like I did haha. But the grip tape helped me a ton. I paid $6 at a local skateboard shop and did my glock twice (messed up the first time) and two of my buddies.