USPSA advertising to Cowboys

[Wakal]

I was reading through the monthly SASS ("Cowboy Action" shooting) magazine, and what to my wandering eyes did appear, but a guy in shortie pants running with a real gun! Since shortie pants, real guns, and running with a gun (real or otherwise) are all illegal in SASS, I had to read on. It said:

Whant More Shooting?

GET SOME USPSA ACTION

Take it to the next level...

You're already a skilled SASS competitor.  YOu hit what you aim at , and you aren't afraid ot shoot under time pressure.  Ever wonder what you could do with modern equipment?  USPSA invites you to come find out.

USPSA's specialty is pistol, but increasingly, we're hosting rifle, pistol, and shotgun events--places where SASS shooters could show us a thing or two.  No matter where you go, the action is fast, the targets are (usually) big, and our vulunteer clubs are among the very best.  There's a reason USPSA club shooters have long dominated the action pistol events, including Steel Challenge, IDPA, ICORE, and the Masters.  --Come find out what our organization can do for you!

For more information:  www.uspsa.org

A very well written advertisement, IMO, with just the right tone for the venue. Kudos!

Alex

[jhgtyre]

I am glad they are thinking about trying to get shooters from other sports in. I have talked to a couple of the local CASS members about having a "Wild Bunch" class for CASS where you could shoot unmodified 1911's, pump guns loaded to capacity and their same lever rifles. They did'nt seem too enthralled with the idea. Oh well.

-ld

[Wakal]

I showed up to my first SASS match with a LeMat and a 1896 Broomhandle...they were not impressed with me either

A

[Precision40]

Thats very tastefully done, I like that. Unlike ID**, they didn't try to smear their competition saying they are impracticle (As if it REALLY matters.)

[EricW]

I have nightmare visions of politicking for a "Wooly Chaps and Spurs" division" in USPSA.

[kimel]

Turn-about is definately fair play. The SASS folks have been advertising in Front Site for awhile now.

Getting the SASS folks over might help boster the ranks of Revo which would be cool.

Just as long as we don't have to verbally engage the targets before opening fire......

[ErikW]

I showed up to my first SASS match with a LeMat and a 1896 Broomhandle...they were not impressed with me either

Alex, you're my hero. The LeMat had you covered for the shotgun, too, right?

[Wakal]

That was my theory; 9-shot revolver and a single-shot shotgun. Absolutely "period," and quite illegal (if fully loaded). They pointed out the "shotgun starts empty" rule, and the "no more than five rounds in the gun...ever..." rule, and things got interesting.

Then I pointed out the "pre-1899" rule, and that my Mauser '96 actually was built in 1899 (a real junker, too, but pretty spiffy from a design standpoint). They pointed out the "no semi auto" rule.

Good thing I had a pair of Colts in the truck, too

I get yelled at a lot shooting Cowboy Action. They get a mite confused by people sprinting in stovepipe boots and rowel spurs

Back when I was the MD for the local SASS matches, we used to gear up afterwards and run the stages with our 3-Gun rigs. A few of the SASS-only guys would hang around; one of them told me that he would play USPSA, as it "looked like fun," but was "way too expensive." He said that, standing there in a $300 Stetson, $500 custom boots, wearing a pair of tuned Rugers ($1,200), holding a tuned Winchster '73 ($1,100), custom holster rig ($450), and a slicked up '97 ($750)...

Yeah, OUR game is expensive...

Both are fun, but geez, all these gun games can suck the paycheck right out of your wallet. At least ISPC lets us shoot in $5 surplus black BDUs and "gimmie" tee shirts

Alex

[jnshapiro]

Yeah, Cowboy is expensive. Not as bad as 3-gun. I was real glad to see the USPSA ad in the Chronicle this month. I don't know that they'll get much interest though. By and large, cowboy shooters are just out for organized plinking and a social event . And they like to complain about the cost of an IPSC gun. I think the $3500 for an open gun throws 'em. Most want 4 or more for that price.

Anyway, I thought it was a great ad!

Joel

[JFlowers]

On the SASS Wire, some cowpoke who just don't get it complained about the ad. Both jnshapiro and myself chimed in that "the us and them B.S. from gun owners has to stop" and "sold ad space is sold ad space".

I like seeing USPSA and SASS living peacefully. Yes, in some ways they compete for the same shooters and shooters $$$, and in some ways they compliment each other, but if we don't all stand shoulder to shoulder regardless of what guns we own and what games we play .... we will all lose in the end.

[Trey]

My friend is a cowboy shooter. When we've practiced together, he's asked how do the IPSC guys improve their scores.

So we end up talking about efficiency, transitions,movement, etc.. The different perspective from our game really helped him improve his overall time/score.

I'm so proud. I've given to birth to a "cowboy gamer"

[Dead Buff]

I'm so proud. I've given to birth to a "cowboy gamer"

You'll be dragged, quartered, strung-up, dug-in and shot like the coyote that you are....

I luv it....

[TriggerT]

I like the idea of advertising in the SASS mag, but I can't say I have heard of all that many shooters making the crossover from either sport. Maybe this is just here in my area, but it seems like SASS shooters are dead set in being SASS shooters, and USPSA shooters just don't want to dress up like they are going out for a night of square dancing.

[kimel]

I think we have a decent chance at getting some of the younger SASS types to cross-over. Think of the teen+ set that have grown up shooting SASS with Dad and not known about anything else. They might well be looking for something different.

[Madmark]

My first encounter with a SASS Diehard came when I was searching for some obsolete brass for one of my pistols. The gunshop owner perked up when he heard "obsolete", and nearly came uncorked when I told him I needed 9x21 brass for an EAA Witness. That started a 5 minute rant about people loading ammo to pressures and velocities that were unsafe, no need for scopes and hi-cap mags, IPSC is too expensive, etc.....

After the veins in his forehead receded, he invited me to come shoot a REAL shooting match. He even offered to let me shoot his equipment for a stage or 2.

He asked how he could get ahold of me to send me a match schedule, so I wrote down my e-mail adress. Which of course started a 5 minute rant about people ruining their lives by sitting in front of a computer all day, no need for email, internet is too expensive, etc....

This experience kinda cooled down my enthusiasm to try Cowboy "action" shooting.

[jnshapiro]

James Flowers, what's the alias that you use?

Now a little thread drift....

Folks, don't let the petty attitudes that you see from a few folks that just don't get it keep you from trying a shooting sport. Cowboy is actually a lot of fun, and a great place to work on Type 1 and 2 focus. Most of the targets are pretty close (10 yards for pistol, 20-25 or closer for rifle) and pretty generous in size. Think of it as cross training.

In addition, I know some GM and M IPSC shooters that participate. And when Western 3 Gun gets going, that'll really be attractive to IPSC shooters. Think...prize table and cash - maybe as much as $5000 for the match winner! That will be much more like what you're used to shooting too. Targets with an accuracy component, shooting on the move, etc.

Give it a go.

Joel

[JFlowers]

Hey Joel, or should I say "Doc" Shapiro?

'round these parts they call me "Preacher Jim" and I am the happy holder of THE UPRISING (NC State Championship) 2004 Frontier Cartridge 1st Place Trophy.

My personal belief in all this is what I have always said.... Gun Games are FUN! I like SASS, IPSC, 3-GUN, IDPA, and Skeet/Trap (though I suck at it!). I still believe that we all need to stick together and respect each other or we are all going to end up sitting at home knitting.

[blackdragon]

When I was IPSC match director back in Colorado, We came up with a match where the SASS and IPSC shooters could compete. We called it Cowboys and G-men. IPSC shooters used double action revolvers and pump shotguns. The SASS shooters used single action revovers and pump or double barrel shotguns. Man it was a blast. Evil Roy showed us a thing or two!, Co-existance can be fun!

Ivan

SCS Vegas

[jnshapiro]

James, are you going to be at the NE Regional next week? It would be nice to meet a fellow BE'er! I'm flying in on Wed. BTW, great job at the NC match! There are some talented shooters there.

Ivan, Evil Roy is a very talented shooter. I expect he could teach some things to most of us.

One of the local IPSC clubs here is sponsoring a IPSC/Cowboy match at the end of October. Unfortunately, I won't be able to make it. I'm teaching a class that day. Only so many 5th weekends for extra stuff in a year .

Doc....er....Joel

[JD45]

If SASS would have a division where you used only one SA pistol and did not have to dress-up, I would be there in a heartbeat and so would a zillion others.

There would be so many shooters ranges would have to triple in size.

[MikeFoley]

Once a year, our pistol club holds a championship for members only where we shoot one stage each of IPSC, IDPA, SASS, GSSF, and Bullseye. We are doing it as an open to the public event in October and providing guns and ammo.

We see a lot of cooperation with all of the above divisions of our club working matches together, but few crossover shooters. Everyone works the GSSF match, but some won't shoot it unless it is sixguns or hammerlis. Everyone works the IDPA state match, even a couple of IPSC shooters who only shoot IDPA less than once every three years.

There are a couple of guys who shoot IDPA, IPSC, and Steel Challenge every month, and they are hard workers at the IPSC match. Great guys.

I would love to try SASS 3Gun for grins (and to see where I would finish) one time, but really need to shoot my Limited gun every week. I consider diversity shooting Production, Revolver, or L10 as a second run once per month. I still do GSSF once per year because it has been very good to me, though it has lost the excitement it once gave me. It is still a good venue to see people from around the country in a relaxed atmosphere, and is great for introducing new shooters to the shooting sports.

There are a lot of IPSC shooters I have heard saying they would love to try "Cowboy" sometime, but we never do. I guess 4-5 IPSC matches per month keep us from it. "We ain't sceered!, just busy"

I recall when David Robinson or Bo Jackson played other sports (someone tell me I am not dreaming this), but it was short lived. Didn't Michael Jordan play baseball a few seasons? I wonder if Tiger Woods would be any good at IPSC? I'm certainly no A player in golf (that is why I only play at work related functions now, $60+ fees buy a lot of reloading components).

The common thread is to love shooting and support the right to own firearms. We should always encourage, and never discourage any shooting discipline. Trap, Skeet, Sporting Clays, Benchrest, Hi-power, DCM, STC, Masters, Bianchi, and free pistol all look very fun to me. These would be great reasons to buy more guns, too.

[JFlowers]

Jn,

Unfortunately the NE Regional is not on my dance card this year. I started the year off shooting nothing but USPSA matches, then bent to the calls from all my friends who shoot SASS to come back, so my match budget for the year was pretty much blown early. Most of the majors (both SASS and USPSA) I have shot this year have been on a "work for entry" basis. SInce you are going to be on the East Coast anyway, stay the week and come down to Ashevile, NC for The Gunfight At Wolf Creek. If not catch you in the spring at Mule Camp.

JD45, Lets be honest, to shoot cowboy all you need a pair of laceup leather workboots, a pair of jeans, a button up long sleeve shirt, and a hat, and of course guns and leather. The more costly B and C Western outfits are not needed. As to only one SA ..... well, from what I hear SASS started out that way and shooters being shooters wanted more rounds so it has evolved into two pistol game. Average stage round count is 23 (9 rifle, 10 pistol, 4 shotgun) very similiar to USPSA stages (except for the 3 additional guns).

fomeister, your right on one thing.... swapping sports/games/guns tends you let you play a lot, but kills performance across the board. In the end there are only so many Sats and Suns to shoot club matches on, and only some many $$$ to be spent. We see very few crossover shooters in the Central/Western NC area between SASS and USPSA. The few who do are usually serious at one game and casual at the other, or burned out on one and switching to the other for a change.

[Duane Thomas]

Recently at the Renton Fish & Game Club in Washington state they had what I thought was a very interesting experiment: a match where shooters could shoot the stages as a CAS match, IDPA, or USPSA. The stages were the same regardless of what sort of gun you were shooting, but your performance was graded under the appropriate sport's rules. Cool.

[Duane Thomas]

JD45, Lets be honest, to shoot cowboy all you need a pair of laceup leather workboots, a pair of jeans, a button up long sleeve shirt, and a hat, and of course guns and leather.

In my experience, CAS shooters are such a friendly, wonderfully open-handed bunch that, should you show up for a match and be missing one or more of the required guns, someone will loan you theirs, and ammo for it. Realistically, you could probably show up with nothing at all, and people would loan you all the stuff you needed. Please understand, I'm not suggesting that, but it's an indication of just how nice are CAS shooters, and shows that getting started in the sport doesn't necessarily have to be an expensive proposition. Eventually of course, if you got heavily into it, you'd want to get your own stuff, and could add it a bit at a time.