Sub-conscious shooting

[a matt]

Ok I get the fiact that we should shoot with our subconscious. Maybe I'm expecting to much to fast.

How? Make ready- I get sight picture- load up reholster wait for the beep. I start, all is fine but I can't seem to keep my conscious mind from saying I'm here too, and messing me up. Shorter stages are ok it seem to be the longer field courses. If I miss a sm popper and have to go back that is when my mind takes over and it gets ugly. I can start out fine, how do I stop it (the thinking) during the stage?

[mikeg1005]

Don't ignore you conscious, simply use it to see the present, instead of having it recall the past or question the present(which happens in the past).

The key is to distinquish between "thinking" and "observing". Don't think about what is happening... just observe what is happening... Thinking means you are analyzing it which happens in the past, which means you aren't focusing 100% on the present.

When I start, I think about nothing. I just observe what is happening. Usually (when I do it wrong) I catch myself aimlessly staring at something, my mind will say "why are you looking at the floor?" My conscious starts saying things to me... and it throws me off. But if I don't let it.. and simply occupy my mind by observing... I don't have this problem.

Brian mentioned it well in his book... You ever notice how you can't recall step by step your best stages? But you have a highlight reel of the bad ones? Becuase most mistakes are cuased by not focusing on what is happening. When you do things correctly, you are just obsurbing what is going on right then and there. You are not storing memories or remembering the past.

Also don't think about the buzzer. Your body knows to react to the buzzer, just like it knows to pull the trigger... and your mind will pick up the buzzer very fast if you are observing the world in the present tense.

As far as running the stage goes? My first plan is to never make a plan. The most I memorize a stage is which path I will follow... Thats it. I don't plan specific foot placement, I don't worry about how I'm going to round a corner, how I'm going to bring the gun, etc. I already KNOW how to do all those things from practice... so why worry about it(kinda like not worrying about the buzzer). I find my runs to be significantly smoother, faster, and more accurate when I am running from observing, rather than off a plan.

As far as making mistakes... well if I don't have a plan to begin with, then you can't stray from a plan when you make a mistake(which leaves you lost). I used to shoot like that "shoot this target first, that target second, etc." Everything was determined in advance on how I'd execute it ... then when I made a slight mistake, my mind went into a "what now?" state... and I tried to get back on plan... which doesn't work. Don't have that problem if I was never running from a predetermined plan to begin with.

When I mess up now(when not running a plan) I don't think about it. I see the mistake, react accordingly and then shift my focus back to observing what is going on.

Also another nice thing, I find my walk-throughs to be significantly more useful when I'm not spending time burning a stage into my head. I have the ability to see and visualize more things... I see the "little things" that I would otherwise miss becuase I was focusing on a plan.

Focus on observing, rather than thinking/planning while shooting.

Hope that helps.

[Flexmoney]

Sounds like you are focusing on the outcome?

I strive to focus on the execution.

[beltjones]

Sounds like you are focusing on the outcome?

I strive to focus on the execution.

This. Focusing on execution helps to keep you present.

[a matt]

Thanks. I will try focusing on execution of my present. Crazy, but I'm following you.

Edited December 29, 2012 by a matt

[eric nielsen]

Just keep working at executing your shots without words in your head. The more you practice dry-fire at home or shooting at the range without a running verbal dialog in your mind (or worse yet, spoken out loud) the more you'll be able to pull off that same routine at matches.

With some years of shooting you'll see that your conscious mind is best left to plan a stage (again, with as few words as possible) and to be a VERY patient, mostly silent coach while you're shooting. It only speaks up at strategic times when you need a little reminder. Says things like "mag change", and then "now, RUN", and then "start to set up right THERE" (a visual cue you already planned), and then "be still" as you're executing the first shot of the next position, etc. One task at a time, and don't let the conscious mind micro-manage the actual shooing, it's just a spectator.

Edited December 29, 2012 by eric nielsen

[PaulW]

Stay with the sights and let the sights tell the story.

[Xander]

Just keep working at executing your shots without words in your head. The more you practice dry-fire at home or shooting at the range without a running verbal dialog in your mind (or worse yet, spoken out loud) the more you'll be able to pull off that same routine at matches.

With some years of shooting you'll see that your conscious mind is best left to plan a stage (again, with as few words as possible) and to be a VERY patient, mostly silent coach while you're shooting. It only speaks up at strategic times when you need a little reminder. Says things like "mag change", and then "now, RUN", and then "start to set up right THERE" (a visual cue you already planned), and then "be still" as you're executing the first shot of the next position, etc. One task at a time, and don't let the conscious mind micro-manage the actual shooing, it's just a spectator.

very nice inputs

[Jesse Tischauser]

Don't ignore you conscious, simply use it to see the present, instead of having it recall the past or question the present(which happens in the past).

The key is to distinquish between "thinking" and "observing". Don't think about what is happening... just observe what is happening... Thinking means you are analyzing it which happens in the past, which means you aren't focusing 100% on the present.

When I start, I think about nothing. I just observe what is happening. Usually (when I do it wrong) I catch myself aimlessly staring at something, my mind will say "why are you looking at the floor?" My conscious starts saying things to me... and it throws me off. But if I don't let it.. and simply occupy my mind by observing... I don't have this problem.

Brian mentioned it well in his book... You ever notice how you can't recall step by step your best stages? But you have a highlight reel of the bad ones? Becuase most mistakes are cuased by not focusing on what is happening. When you do things correctly, you are just obsurbing what is going on right then and there. You are not storing memories or remembering the past.

Also don't think about the buzzer. Your body knows to react to the buzzer, just like it knows to pull the trigger... and your mind will pick up the buzzer very fast if you are observing the world in the present tense.

As far as running the stage goes? My first plan is to never make a plan. The most I memorize a stage is which path I will follow... Thats it. I don't plan specific foot placement, I don't worry about how I'm going to round a corner, how I'm going to bring the gun, etc. I already KNOW how to do all those things from practice... so why worry about it(kinda like not worrying about the buzzer). I find my runs to be significantly smoother, faster, and more accurate when I am running from observing, rather than off a plan.

As far as making mistakes... well if I don't have a plan to begin with, then you can't stray from a plan when you make a mistake(which leaves you lost). I used to shoot like that "shoot this target first, that target second, etc." Everything was determined in advance on how I'd execute it ... then when I made a slight mistake, my mind went into a "what now?" state... and I tried to get back on plan... which doesn't work. Don't have that problem if I was never running from a predetermined plan to begin with.

When I mess up now(when not running a plan) I don't think about it. I see the mistake, react accordingly and then shift my focus back to observing what is going on.

Also another nice thing, I find my walk-throughs to be significantly more useful when I'm not spending time burning a stage into my head. I have the ability to see and visualize more things... I see the "little things" that I would otherwise miss becuase I was focusing on a plan.

Focus on observing, rather than thinking/planning while shooting.

Hope that helps.

Interesting take on not having a plan. I have worked hard to out several stage marks into a stage trying to minimize steps or force myself to get the gun up but it requires a lot if conscious thought to hit all those markers. Then once you miss or simple dont execute one perfectly I don't stop thinking about it and how much it cost me.

Edited January 5, 2013 by Jesse Tischauser

[a matt]

Yea, I'm think about that to much also. And I find myself trying to be way to careful at the bigger matches. Movement is okay the actual shooting slows way down. To make sure I get my hits. This and the hustling are what I have been working on in practice. I stay positive, I know it will come..

Edited January 5, 2013 by a matt

[mikeg1005]

Interesting take on not having a plan. I have worked hard to out several stage marks into a stage trying to minimize steps or force myself to get the gun up but it requires a lot if conscious thought to hit all those markers. Then once you miss or simple dont execute one perfectly I don't stop thinking about it and how much it cost me.

Ya, I try to run stages this way. Now of course its not a guideline I follow for everything... There are some stages that are such memory stages/complex that I have to burn my plan into my sub-conscious then and there during the walk through otherwise I'll be lost. But if its not a memory stages, I focus more on the fastest path and were I can see targets rather than how I'm going to get in/out of a position, etc. I think those items are fundmentals you get into your mind from practice, not during the match.

Like for example I always shoot bottom targets first then the ones above them so its easier to see the target/sights. I don't have to tell myself to do this during a match, I simply do it, becuase I know(from practice) that this is the way to do it... and my mind does it... similar to how no one thinks about trigger pull, but we are all capable of pulling it without jerking.

Yea, I'm think about that to much also. And I find myself trying to be way to careful at the bigger matches. Movement is okay the actual shooting slows way down. To make sure I get my hits. This and the hustling are what I have been working on in practice. I stay positive, I know it will come..

Are you getting better hits when you slow down? Or are they the same except they take more time?

Mike.

[Steve Anderson]

You must memorize the stage, this means knowing where every target is. It does not necessarily mean every foot position, this is generally a result of training the feet on what to do and letting them do it.

Once you can see the whole stage with your eyes closed, you're ready to shoot.

The best way to shoot subconsciously is to give the conscious mind a job to do. That way he can't show up at your match half drunk in a stolen car asking where the nearest strip club is...

The best job for the conscious mind is calling every shot. If you're not ready to embrace that you could call it seeing the sights for every shot (which is pretty close and can be a bridge to shot calling) or you could score each target as you shoot it. Again, very close and perhaps a useful bridge.

And please please please in the name of all things sacred and holy (God, Van Halen, Monthers, Dry Fire, etc...) do not ever consciously control your speed in a match. Slowing down is just as bad as speeding up. It puts the conscious mind in control without addressing the problem that caused the need for the speed adjustment.

If a ship is heading for an iceberg, it may wind up slowing down, but slowing down won't solve the real problem, will it?

[a matt]

My hits are about the same. I'm thinking I am trying to see to much or wanting to see to much of the sights in relation to the A zone. It is definatly not like that when I practice.

[Steve Anderson]

" I'm thinking I am trying to see to much or wanting to see to much of the sights in relation to the A zone. It is definitely not like that when I practice."

More about this please.

[Jerome]

So, Steve, you're saying that the conscious mind is more fun than the subconscious?

The best way to shoot subconsciously is to give the conscious mind a job to do. That way he can't show up at your match half drunk in a stolen car asking where the nearest strip club is...

[toothguy]

My scary-smart wife told me about "Procedural Memory". Really gave me insight on "subconscious" tasks.

Techniques are used for learning, once learned the technique isn't needed as much because parts of the activity is now in "procedural memory".

Something to chew on:

...Procedural memories are accessed and used without the need for conscious control or attention... Procedural memory is created through "procedural learning" or, repeating a complex activity over and over again until all of the relevant neural systems work together to automatically produce the activity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procedural_memory

Procedural memory is in our limbic system, basal ganglia and cerebellum. These prehistoric parts of our brains are really efficient.

DNH

[a matt]

I feel my conscious mind is trying to see to much at the maches. As opposed to shooting fast and it not hurting my points in practice.. I need good points fast. Like everyone does. I'm trying to figure things out. The conscious vs subconscious not-thinking does make more since now.

Edited January 11, 2013 by a matt

[CAB33]

I don't shoot subconsciously.

If I don't have the intent to shoot when the sights lineup then they don't.

[Flexmoney]

... the intent to shoot when the sights lineup...

What makes that conscious or sub-conscious, for you?

[ktm300]

The best job for the conscious mind is calling every shot.

I try and turn off the internal dialog as much as I can. When it really goes well I pretty much watch myself shoot much like a POV camera with force feedback. That is the job I gave my conscious mind, to just observe what is going on. Part of the observation is calling shots but I never thought of it that way. Can't say I can do it all the time but that is the idea. When I do just watch, it is rare for me to have to make up a shot, when I don't it can get a bit ugly.

As to planing, I have a plan for the stage and I try to play it back in my head just the way I am going to watch myself shoot. In the walk through I try and get as much detail as possible worked out, like what mark I am going to use on that wall to find the target I can't see until I get there, the order the targets get shot in etc. When I run a stage well, I don't think about the plan, it just happens and my internal POV cameral takes it all in. When it works and I am done it feels like I was under control the whole time and I can play it back in my head. That is the feeling that keeps me working at getting better.

One more thing, When it's going well I never think about when to pull the trigger, the gun just kind of goes off as the sights line up.

Edited January 11, 2013 by ktm300

[sigsauerfan]

i don't anticipate or reflects on what i'll do or ''what i'm doing now''' .

once i've looked at the course and decided ''how''' i'll go through it, i pull the killswitch on my mind. i try to NOT think at all...the stream of thoughts is off ;

i'm attacking the course on the auto pilot as fast as i can , keeping focus on fast target aquisition only , then relying on muscles memory for working the trigger the best i can, trying to feel the gun like an extension of my POA.

i've improved quite a bit since i use this mindset , but seems like i've hit a wall since couple matches. i still loose time with mag changes/presentation , i should speed up my pace.

[Steve Anderson]

"i've improved quite a bit since i use this mindset , but seems like i've hit a wall since couple matches. i still loose time with mag changes/presentation , i should speed up my pace. "

I heard a rumor that dry fire practice of these basic skills can dramatically speed them up and make them much more reliable...

It's almost like they happen automatically at some point.

• Quote
  

[ktm300]

I heard a rumor that dry fire practice of these basic skills can dramatically speed them up and make them much more reliable...

It's almost like they happen automatically at some point.

For me dry fire to get the basic movements down, and Airsoft for working on the speed at which I can see the sights and transition between targets seems to be the best formula I have found.

I can't seem to make myself dry fire more than 10 or 15 minutes a day but I love to spend an hour in the basement shooting airsoft. Airsoft seems to be a bit of a workout as all the running around in the basement seems to work up a good sweat even when it's cold. I am starting to get that ability to move as fast as I can from target to target and still take the time needed to get off a good shot on the target. Before the airsoft stuff I could do one or the other, not both.

[sroe3]

My anecdote on this topic. My very first match I shot a plate rack. 5 perfect shots then missed the 6th plate once or twice before dropping it. My trainer laughed and said "at the 5th plate you though 'this is going well'." He was right. He explained to me how conscious thought screws with your shooting, and I absolutely got it.

[a matt]

It will always try to do that very thing.