Political Statements

[BroadSide]

I hate people who think that the best way to make a political or religious statement is to take the lives of hundreds or thousands of innocent men and women.  I can't even begin to understand that mode of thinking.  My prayers go out to all Americans today.

[Jerome Poiret]

We're all with you, american brothers.

[Phil Dunlop]

Stunned in New Zealand too, thoughts and sympathies with you guys,

P.D.

[benos]

Thank you.

[Michael Fletcher]

You have all the support from Canada as well

[Julien Boit]

We all think of you .

julien

[Nik Habicht]

I'm Sad.

[spook]

The Netherlands support you guys too. I hope all democratic and free countries will help to carry the burden and put and end to these senseless and idiotic acts of violence.

[EricW]

(Please no one here take this personally and do not take this as an attempt to discount the reality of the human loss of yesterday's events.)  

Yesterday, I was in a bit of shell shock.  Right now, I'm mad as hell. But, I'm not sure if I madder at the Taliban and Bin Laden or all the two-bit chickens***** that call themselves Americans.

I am utterly pissed with the milquetoast, defeatist crap that I have to watch come across the media channels - both on the part of the media and the persons that grant those worthless vultures interviews.  What happened to the tough nation that went out and kicked ass after Pearl Harbor?  When did America turn into a land full of fat, lazy, whiny, rich kids that go crying to mommy after getting a little bop in the nose?  Yes, yesterday's losses are tragic, but a national display of weakness is surely not the answer. What happened is bad, but this is NOT the end of the world.

Right now, any show of weakness is the wrong message to send the world.  I don't care if it's someone bawling into a microphone on National Public Radio, or some jackass Fox News reporter droning on about how there is no clear action that the U.S. can take against the perpetrators (both real examples -  and both total crap).  These acts of terrorism are borne out a lack of respect.  Who the hell will respect us when we act like a bunch of crybabies?

The British beat the Germans during the Battle of Britain, not by acting like whiny defeatists, but by keeping a "stiff upper lip" in the face of utter adversity.  The people of Britain were literally on the brink of being overrun and massacred, but one doesn't see much film footage of the English citizenry breaking down on camera for a festival of tears.  They knew what Hitler wanted and refused to give it to him.  We Americans are no where NEAR as far down as the Brits were, but if you turned on a television, you'd think we'd just might as well give up and let the damned Taliban take over.  

Show the worthless cowards who perpetrated yesterday's atrocities that yesterday was just another bad day at the office.  After we show up on their doorstep to turn them into grease spots, it will STILL be just another bad day at the office - for them.  Just business as usual: "Hi, we just stopped by to grind your sorry ass into the desert...would you like fries with that grenade?" THAT is the attitude will put a stop to this nonsense.  If you really care, act like you hardly care at all.  Don't get rattled.  Focus your grief and anger into a calm, grim determination to defeat evil.  THAT is the attitude that will scare the holy hell out of Bin Laden and his followers.  

Crying and whimpering will only beget more terrorism.  Bullies do what they do for the thrill they get from causing psychological damage.  Let's not give the bastards the satisfaction.  Show no fear and terrorism will be rendered ineffective.

Toughen-up, Buttercups!!  

Best Regards,

Eric

[Singlestack]

EricW,

I feel your anger brother but I think you are misdirecting it. Nothing like this has ever happened. You can not compare this to any other war. This was an attack on women, children, and innocent civilians. In Pearl harbor it was an attack against our military and we knew who the enemy was. None of the people you are refering to has ever seen anything like this and I think they are responding in a natural way. The tough Nation you are wanting is in shock. I saw last nite that they are estimating the death toll at the WTC at 30,000. Think about it. There were 58,174 lost in approx 10yrs in Vietnam. 30,000. I don't even know how to comprehend that. What you are seeing is not "milquetoast, defeatist crap" but pure shock. This is no "little bop on the nose" but a strike against humanity like the world has never seen.

Give America a moment to recover and I think you will be proud. The "buttercups" WILL recover and kick ASS as they always have.

(Edited by Singlestack at 12:50 pm on Sep. 13, 2001)

[benos]

Also, It's not possible to IMAGINE EXACTLY what happened aboard those planes. "Imagine" this scenario: Hijackers armed with knives, or whatever, take women or children hostage and state that there is a bomb on board and that if everyone cooperates, nothing further will happen to anyone on the plane. They are simply redirecting the plane to a new location, and they assure everyone that everyone will be OK. Should a group of guys rush the hijackers, knowing that at least the hostage(s) will likely be killed? Or more likely - if anyone tries to intervine they will blow up the plane and everyone, without doubt, will be killed? Now, if you had received some clue that they were going to use the plane as a bomb, and kill more than just who is on the plane, then the choice of action would be clear. Did they lock the cockpit so it wasn't possible to even see whether they had actually killed the pilots, or maybe they were just redirecting the plane by telling the pilots they threats they were telling the passengers?

Tough questions, it's not possible to say what should have happened.

The only thing it is possible for me to say with certainty is that everyone even remotely responsible or associated in any way should be beaten, stabbed, beaten some more, stabbed some more, and then burned at the stake.

be

[BroadSide]

As Brian pointed out, there are many things about this attack that are still unknown.  I can't fault anyone for waiting to have the necessary facts before making a decision.  As a democratic nation, we hold certain beliefs to be true.  Innocent until proven guilty comes to mind.  

With 4000 FBI agents and 3000 support personnel dedicated to the task, I feel certain that we will soon have all the evidence we need to reveal to the world who the guilty are.  When we do, I think Senator John McCain R-Ariz. expressed it most appropriately..."I say to our enemies, we are coming.  God may show you mercy. We will not."

http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/terrorism.../0913pitts.html    

(Edited by BroadSide at 2:17 pm on Sep. 13, 2001)

[Ross Chevalier]

I saw a repost yesterday of a statement made in the 70's by one of the deans of Canadian journalism (back when journalistic integrity meant something) Mr. Gordon Sinclair.  I offer it to all below.

"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth.

Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States. When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American  communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped. The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent,  warmongering Americans.

I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American  Planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon - not once, but several times - and safely home again. You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their  draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here. When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the  Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke. I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those."

Stand proud, America!

I have many friends in America, in law enforcement, in business, and in the military.  The incredible shock, and the incredible trauma will give way to what America does so well, to turn tragedy into triumph.

Others may vocalize this better than I could, but when the stock markets reopen, I recommend investing in the companies that make the paint for the lines in parking lots.  There will be plenty of paving coming.

My personal preference of course was already done in the Clancy novel Executive Orders, where the extermination of the terrorist head was televised worldwide in real time.

"Hello, I am President Bush.  Avon calling."  Boom!

It is just my opinion and I hope I'm right.  Canada is with you.

Ross

[Chriss Grube]

Eric,

Trust me this is a tragedy that nobody can understand. I saw this stuff in the ME but I never expected it here. They understand only violence. You can bet the farm that when all is said and done the bastards will pay. You might not see it on the news but they will be hunted down and killed. It is actually better if it is done this way, then we don't make heroes out of them. Trust me their friends will know what happened. No trials just a bullet to the back of the head. GW will treat them the same way Reagan did after they blew up the Marine barracks. It might take 4 years like last time put they will die!

[Singlestack]

Ross,

Thank you. I feel better. I was mad earlier but I got a grip now.

[spook]

Thanks you guys,

you just made clear to me this shit will never end.

[Ross Chevalier]

SS,

You're welcome.  

Ross

[Duane Thomas]

Eric W,

Although it's an enduring, and understandably popular, myth that America instantly rose up ready to smite the dastardly Japanese in the aftermath of Pearl Harbor, the stuff I've read tells me we handled that situation MUCH worse than we're handling this one. When word broke the Japanese had attacked Pearl, there was rioting all up and down the West Coast, like we saw in the wake of the first Rodney King trial only worse, and if you were Japanese-American in those areas your ass was pretty much grass. There were hysterical rumors the Japanese were invading California. And it's probably a good thing for us they weren't, because we had essentially no Army.

Yes, Japan "woke the sleeping giant," but it took the giant awhile to believe it was actually happening. There is always that hesitation interval, when the giant has just woken up and can't believe any pissant would be stupid to walk up and kick him while he's sleeping. Then, after he wakes up, of course wipes the stupid shit out.

Wait and see. We haven't even begun to execute pay-back for this one.

[Singlestack]

Duane,

Thats pretty funny. I remember using the same analogy back during Desert Storm. I just could not believe that a country would watch the build up knowing that they are gonna get their ass kicked and not pull out. I said "they are like red ants!".

You are right about the "sleeping giant". It will awaken real soon and everybody had better get out of the way.

[Chriss Grube]

The only good that came out of this is that this has unified the country. We can fight and argue between our selves but don't let some outsider step in. Now they will see what happens when you piss off the baddest country out there. I was surprised when the company that my wife works for put out a memo that they are not allowed to wear ribbons etc. A young girl in college refused to take it off and told them to fire her because she didn't want to work for a company that felt like that. The wife is off so it will be interesrting to see what happens when she goes back. I'll get a second job before she gives in to that type of crap! There may just be hope for the future!

[Flexmoney]

Chriss,

Name the company.

Kyle F.

[Singlestack]

Chriss,

Ditto. Please name them.

[Chriss Grube]

The company is Caesar's Pocono Resorts. They are not affiliated with the Caesars in LV or AC anymore. They were bought out by ITT Starwood a couple years ago. I'm not sure if this is an ITT Starwood policy or the local company. The guy that put it out is Doug WILKINS. If anyone would like to call and voice their displeasure the Phone number is (570)226-4506. I haven't read the exact wording but was told it was due to the fantasy experience that Caersar's provides. ITT Starwood is the parent company and also owns the Sheraton hotels. When I get a hard copy I'll post more info.

[John Thompson]

Chriss, that crap at yours wife's job unfortuantely is very believable.  

    My biggest fear about this whole bombing is that in a couple of weeks people will go back to their self centered oblivious lives.  You'll guys will know what I'm talking about when people have to start paying a little more to put gas in their gas sucking penis extension SUV's and taking a little more time in the airport.  Everone demands action as long as it's absolutely convienant to them.  I believe that the terrorists weighed the cost of this act and are banking on America overreacting and killing a lot of innocent people and thus facing the rebuke of our fair weather allies and world condemnation. And/or the possiblity that the American people won't support a prolonged campaign against terrorism with all it's costs.  We can't just send some cruise missiles around for a few days to solve this problem; it's going to take years of patient small operations to get to the root and eliminate it. We have to look at this as an investment in the future and a process.

(Edited by John Thompson at 2:05 pm on Sep. 15, 2001)

[EricW]

Dwayne & others,

Thanks for the words of support, everybody.  For what it's worth, I am not advocating internal strife or hatred against minority groups living in the US.  My family is of German descent and endured Jingoism through two world wars.  Consequently, I don't advocate racial hatred.

I really think that this attack was only a first installment and we need to brace ourselves for more.  It shouldn't be a mystery as to why the operatives that orchestrated these attacks haven't made obvious moves to exit the country.  Because it's been so many years since a foreign power has made a serious attack on our own soil, I don't think we appreciate the individual commitments we need to make.  

We all talk tough talk.  Well, now it's time to walk the walk.  It doesn't have to be any grandiose, sacrificial act, nor a machine-gun nest on your roof, just a commitment to toughness and courage in our everday lives - a resolve not to let terror alter our values and ideals.

Our military and government are great, but just like our crime, violence and education problems, they can't solve this one alone.  Islamic Fundamentalism didn't declare war on just our military.  They declared war on us.  Like it or not, we are all soldiers now.  

You need to decide what this means to you and how to act to best benefit your country.  But, I think we have less time than some may think.  No one is coming across the ocean to attack us in a boat, submarine, or airplane.  They are already here...

Best Regards,

Eric