greatlakes08 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Does anybody run an open gun using iron sights instead of a dot? I cannot seem to get used to finding the dot and am thinking about installing iron sights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassochist Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 did you try a, docter / deltapoint or similar mounted on the slide, or 90 degree mount with cmore?? it's possible to run an open gun with iron sights, but it's a big disadvantage. i think more training and dry firing is the clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Try a 90 degree mount as the dot is right where the iron sights are. I agree Irons would be a disadvantage in open. I say in open the dot is a bigger advantage than the Comp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 As was said, these days the advantage of Open lies largely with the optic sight followed by the compensator, then capacity. If you aren’t running an optic of some type, then you might as well shoot in XXXXXXX (fill in the blank with your other favorite division). There might be certain situations/shots where running an iron sighted gun wouldn’t hurt you, but overall running iron sights will not help you except maybe in the area of reliability…which with the C-more and aimpoints is very good...so nowadays that argument is moot. Pick an optic platform that works with your gun (upright, 90 degree, 45 degree, upsidedown....whatever) and spend time dryfiring, go practice live fire with draws, plates/target transitions, etc. , ask some of the more experienced open shootersin your club for advice if you are still having difficulties. Seriously, if I (and all the other open div shooters) can get the hang of using a silly little red dot then you can, too. (BTW - I shot open with irons when that is all we had, and the dot is better). You can do this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 (edited) I really do like the idea of a dot but I'm sure if you are good enough with irons, you can be competitive. You may not win any national championships but this is about having fun also so if you think you will have some fun with it, then go for it. Remember, there was a time when all the Open guns had iron sights. Also, if you look at the some of the other divisions and compare them to the Open shooters (talking about the top shooters), there is a slim margin between the points totals so you take it for what it's worth... Edited December 3, 2012 by gng4life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Learning to find the dot will take practice. Once you get it however you will love it. Try this. When you draw push the nose of the pistol slightly up and then push it down as you reach full extension. You will see the dot come into your field of vision. That is what a master class shooter had me do at first to find the dot. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Oh and I also used my .22 rimbire pistol with a red dot on it to practice a lot of one shot draws. It helped not to be spending my good ammo up learning to track the dot. Once I got the hang of it I moved to my real gun. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Is there a reason you're not shooting Limited? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermoto Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 If your local stages are a lot of fast close targets, irons will be just as fast. The dot shines when you get out over 10 yards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Well, everone thinks open is easy till they try it, then they quit. The Sidemore is a bit easier to master, but if you have not mastered it you just have not tried hard enough or long enough. Not just off the draw but every wierd camasutra postion in the book, around wall etc. Dry fire dry fire dry fire. In 6 months if you work 30 minutes a day you will have it down. I know I quit went sidemore and now well I can shoot either, just didn't work on it long enough before I hollered Uncle Quinn! I just shot my SS 45 in a steel match yesterday, and as I was shooting I noticed the recoil wasn't any worse than my open gun, but darn it took 3 times as long to make a run, calling out 6's and 7's where I normally hear 2's and 3's. I had trouble seeing the sights but I hung tough on them to make the hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigstick0000 Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I still find myself once in a while doing the "cmore" shuffle and see others doing the same thing, it happens. I have also done a lot of dry firing and also use my 22 open cmore alot. I also use my open 22 cmore alot. I use a 12 MOA, big dot on both my open guns.. I prefer this to the smaller dots, even for head shots it works fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatlakes08 Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 I really do like the idea of a dot but I'm sure if you are good enough with irons, you can be competitive. You may not win any national championships but this is about having fun also so if you think you will have some fun with it, then go for it. Remember, there was a time when all the Open guns had iron sights. Also, if you look at the some of the other divisions and compare them to the Open shooters (talking about the top shooters), there is a slim margin between the points totals so you take it for what it's worth... I mainly use my pistol for 3 gun and the comp and ammo capacity are pretty important. I also agree the if I practiced enough I could pick up the C-more. I think I will try using my pistol with iron sights and see how it goes. Like you said its mainly for fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchiepinoy Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Its sounds stupid but... Bring the dot to your eye/target... Dont chase the dot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 (edited) I think shooting a iron sight in Open is the perfect way to not win. I also can't figure out why anybody would encourage this idea. Check out ANY big match, ok almost Every small match too, and I don't think you will find one iron in Open, much less one that wins. That is because the dot is the biggest advantage in Open. You can't find the dot? Pony up like everybody else did and practice. Unless you don't care which is fine too. I don't have trouble finding nor do I lose the dot. I also can pick up any gun and find the iron sight. You would be surprised what mastering the dot gun will do for all aspects of shooting. Edited December 6, 2012 by BSeevers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoNsTeR Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 The dot is the entire point of Open. Comps and big sticks are nice but the dot changes everything. If you gave me the choice of shooting Open with a Limited gun with a C-More on it, versus an Open gun with iron sights, I'd take the former every time. Yes, finding the dot is hard. This whole game is hard. Practice makes perfect. Fortunately finding the dot is something you can practice at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 The dot was tough for me also when I was using a upright mount and I never got the hang of it and I quit Open. Later, I rediscovered Open when the 90 degree mounts came out. Now that I've shot them for a while, it's actually easier also to pick up the dot on an upright now also. Yes, practice it until you get it or drop it and go with Irons. Who cares what everyone else says, shoot what makes you feel "at home" and comfortable. Some people have really lost sight that this is a game and we should have fun playing it. If Irons make you happy...so be it...now get out and enjoy some shooting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob DuBois Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Dot sight best thing that ever happened to an older guy with trifocals. Only guns I can shoot with my standard glasses open and rimfire optic in Steel Challenge. I use an upright mount and when shooting strong hand or weak hand look for the module in the six o clock position also show new to open shooters this trick and it seems to help. It won't take long till it's natural. Once you learn it's way quicker splits and just a lot of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattYvip Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 (edited) Didn't Barnhart win a bunch of matches (or at least do really damn well) with an compensated gun with iron sights back in the day? Granted I couldn't do it but I seem to remember it being possible. The real advantage of a dot (at least in my limited experience) comes when you have a tight/tough shot and are trying to go fast. Edited December 6, 2012 by MattYvip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick88 Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Try no sights at all, just look down the comp. I have seen a few win matches that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Gees I forgot, to pass on the C-more secret. "Don't Short Arm the Gun!" Most instances of C-more shuffle start by short arming the gun, like coming up to a port folding the arms in a slight bit then dot blindness starts. A certain serly former prison guard Rudy Project shooter went off on me one day when I was having trouble finding the dot. "Quit Short Arming the Gun." this was the turning point in my open shooting, once I started paying attention to keeping it pushed out I lost my dot blindness. With the open gun you have to turret the upper body like a tank, those over the wall low shots will get you in trouble as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Try the 90 degree before you go back to irons, if you dont like it it can be sold on the forum. It sitsright off the slide and indexes like irons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powder Finger Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Just an observation about this thread...... it would be intresting to see it in the mental section and see what was said. reason being: in the old days when almost all sights were iron the saying was "you can't find a dot quickly, but they are fine for accuracy matches, just not speed matches" (this was around the time Brian was using an old big Aimpoint for Bianchi cup) Then as mentioned Jerry & I think Doug K started messing with dot sights and were doing well, if not winning. Brian shot a whole year with no sights on an EAA (if my memory serves me well) He did pretty well with that. Around that time a local guy at Rio was messing around with a laser sight. (I think it did not do great except at night matches but good scores were shot with it) Now you have the different divisions that somewhat dictate when iron must be used. The scores are very high with the limited guns. Rob nearly won the Steel challenge with a iron sighted gun in .40 a few years ago. Bottom line is that this sport evolves all the time, it taked people that don't put limitations on them or their equipment. The next thing might or might not be out there, but until someone jumps out there and tries it time will stand still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatlakes08 Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 Dot sight best thing that ever happened to an older guy with trifocals. Only guns I can shoot with my standard glasses open and rimfire optic in Steel Challenge. I use an upright mount and when shooting strong hand or weak hand look for the module in the six o clock position also show new to open shooters this trick and it seems to help. It won't take long till it's natural. Once you learn it's way quicker splits and just a lot of fun. It seems like Inhave seen a lot of people with poor vision talk about how the dot helps them. I am lucky enough to have pretty good vision at this time so this is another reason I am thinking about removing the dot. I know practice makes perfect but one of the reasons I wanted to use the dot is because I assumed it would be easy to pick up and improve my times right off the bat without having to practice more (Obviously I was wrong!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatlakes08 Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 Try the 90 degree before you go back to irons, if you dont like it it can be sold on the forum. It sitsright off the slide and indexes like irons. I am currently shooting an open glock and I do not believe there is a 90 degree mount available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Try the 90 degree before you go back to irons, if you dont like it it can be sold on the forum. It sitsright off the slide and indexes like irons. I am currently shooting an open glock and I do not believe there is a 90 degree mount available. .http://stores.sjcguns.com/Categories.bok?category=SJC+Components%3ASight+Mounts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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