Why don't morematches allow buckshot?

[Sterling White]

I shot a spinner with a 3" buck and it was pretty good! And again with 3" flight ass-kicken #4 Turdkey flight controlled specialized load. The spinner weabled, wobbled, and the damn thing just fell down. LOL The dam thing just collapsed from the punch. All I could do is look around to see everyone laughing and say....get some!

[sierra77mk]

I see that this topic is just over a yer old, but it might be useful to readers to have the context, so I'll ask this question here. Any ideas for good buckshot targets, and stages? Goals for the stage would be, most importantly use buckshot, many have it in their home defense shotgun but I personally have never had to use it in a match? Second, while I would like a stage where it can be used and even an advantage I would also not like forcing shooters who don't use it to totally fail, so an option to use bird or slugs would be ideal. I know it can get really expensive, not only for the buckshot but for the targets as well, so some targets-scenarios that aren't too exceptionally expensive as well would be great.

So here is your chance to design a stage or two where buckshot is an advantage. This would probably be used as part of a long stage with a number of strings of fire, so a single (or two) string with buckshot on a 5-10 shot string would be fine, rather than a whole long stage with 15 plus rounds would be great. This is for the Miffliln Co 3-gun match Mar 29th, so if your stage(s) is selected you will get a free entry!

MarkCo said it above. 4-5 Steel placed at distance or heavy plates which will not go down reliably (or at all) with birdshot is an easy way to incorporate buck.

If you want people to be able to engage with birdshot too, then have a shooting position closer to the same plates that would be a time disadvantage over using buck from a longer distance.

Or force a shooter, with vision barriers, to engage all buckshot plates from one position and would require a birdshot shooter to take the same plates from more positions. Depending on your layout, start with buck then work your way downrange with clays etc...

Just make sure your match announcement states how many buckshot targets you will have so a competitor knows what to bring.

[rundownfid]

OK sounds like a plan, the big steel knock down plates with a handy firing point for buck and a less handy for birdshot sounds like a winner. The stage i am considering will probably have 5 strings of fire, only one of which would use buck, not a match loser, but a nice advantage for the well prepared shot gunner. Slugs will probably be used on 2 stages and will probably start the three noon birdshot exclusive stages with the buck or the slug, that will allow the shooters to empty their guns of the "problem" projectiles.

[bmiller]

Will low recoil buck work, or should I bring grizzly bear rated stuff?

[Jesse Tischauser]

Will low recoil buck work, or should I bring grizzly bear rated stuff?

I use the Low recoil 1150ish fps flight control stuff for paper and the 1300ish flight control for steel.

[Alaskapopo]

Will low recoil buck work, or should I bring grizzly bear rated stuff?

Federal Flight control. Its better to have 8 or 9 hit the target slower than to have 7 or less out of 15 hit it faster.

Pat

[rundownfid]

Brian;

You better bring the Grizzly load, need to slow you down. I will have ti shoot the old guy rated stuff.

[JFlowers]

I hate Federal Flight Control Buck on paper targets. You basically end up with a mess. Holes from the shot and a big hole from the wad.

[bmiller]

Steve, Dunhams had 9 pellet 1325 fps stuff on sale. I am looking forward to your match! Have to admit that flying,bouncing clays are freaking me out! Never shot sporting clays

Edited March 13, 2014 by bmiller

[JTMaddox]

I'd really like to hear some more examples of Buckshot being worked into stages well. It always seems like when we try to work in buckshot it seems "forced" for no good reason. If you designate buckshot targets, it almost always seems like it is done just to add the complexity of load management to a stage. Most often if given the choice whatever target you are engaging with buck could be more effectively engaged with some other weapon/load.

Buck on paper is lots of fun, but a real pain in the ass. you really need to have plywood backers for each target or you end up playing the "i'm sure at least 2 of my pellets went through that wad hole" game. this adds considerable cost and effort during the match, not to mention how much fun these targets are to paste.

Buck on heavy, hard to activate steel is the route we usually go when we incorporate it into a stage, but that forces you to designate those targets as "buckshot targets" which is more prescriptive than we usually like to be.

Some of the problems we have found with "optional" buckshot are as follows:

- Can't use mild steel shotgun plates that you could use if birdshot only

- don't care what anyone says, I've seen MGM spinners that have been shot with heavy 4 and 6 load at 10-15 yards for a whole match...they end up a mangled mess. 00 buck would be even worse

- increases probability of accidentally sending buck at flying clay target or somewhere else you don't want it

- In my experience flight control is hard on steel targets. 9 pellet 00 is roughly 485gn (or 1.1oz) of lead that is designed to stay together and impact in close to the same spot close to simultaneously. I don't necessarily want that shot at most of my steel targets anymore than i'd like those targets shot with slugs or "cut shells"

-need to treat all targets that might be engaged with a shotgun as if they were going to be shot with buck just in case someone accidentally does so. this limits your flexibility in stage design since you must now have a positive backstop for shotgun targets and not just figure the distance of shotfall for a 7.5

- almost impossible to do "optional" buckshot on paper targets

-when given a choice, most shooters seem to opt to shoot something other than buckshot if at all possible.

To incorporate some shotgun load management and give shooters the opportunity to shoot more shotgun (a good thing) we've started allowing any paper target to be engaged with slugs (1 shot to neutralize) and steel targets over 50yds to be engaged with slugs. Paper targets already are oriented with a sufficient backstop for rifle and pistol, and slugs don't tear up paper as bad as buck.

We now give the option to shoot any paper target with Rifle, Pistol, or slugs; any steel target with pistol or birdshot; steel over 50 yards with rifle, pistol, or slug; and mild steel (painted orange) or clays with birdshot only.

An all shotgun match is a different story, but given these options I'm currently not seeing much reason to try to force the use of buckshot at a 3-gun match just for the sake of shooting buckshot.

Edited May 12, 2014 by JTMaddox

[Jesse Tischauser]

The point of using slugs, buckshot no shoots or partial targets for that matter is to test shooters skills and their knowledge of their guns, gear, and ammunition. One of the coolest ways I have ever shot buckshot was a brilliant Kurt Miller creation. It was a no shoot target cardboard IPSC target with the A zone cut out at about 12 yards. You had to shoot one shot at like 4 targets placing the shot thru the A zone. Any hits outside the A zone counted as a no shoot. Man you should have seen the choke changing and ammo scrambling going on. It was brilliant and didn't require very much taping of targets at all.

[bigbrowndog]

buck is a pain to tape, which is why the IPSC method of using an 8.5x11 sheet of paper is great, you shoot it and staple a new target up. no pasting!!!! there is even an "A" zone on it (A4 target) and 500 sheets of paper is cheap. the target you staple to is irrelevant hits on it don't count.

you can incorporate paper into the stage and require best 2 hits to score, shooter can decide whether 2 slugs or two buckshot pellets is easier for them, just don't allow birdshot!!

Trapr

[dcloudy777]

The coolest buckshot targets I ever shot were at SSMG 2012.

Basically they were just heavy-ass steel IPSC-shaped knockdown plates that if you didn't put at least 4-5 big pellets on, they would just laugh at you. They laughed at me quite a bit.

If you're gonna make me shot buckshot, give me something to shoot that needs buckshot.

[Jesse Tischauser]

poppers at 50 yards are fun with buck too.

[The Donald]

poppers at 50 yards are fun with buck too.

The target needs to be resetting at 50 yds. If not it is a long walk to reset the target and slows down a match.

[Jesse Tischauser]

poppers at 50 yards are fun with buck too.

The target needs to be resetting at 50 yds. If not it is a long walk to reset the target and slows down a match.

We shoot 50 yard steel I every stage in the pro series. All you gotta do is start at 50 yards and have the shooter progress down range.

[JTMaddox]

poppers at 50 yards are fun with buck too.

The target needs to be resetting at 50 yds. If not it is a long walk to reset the target and slows down a match.

We shoot 50 yard steel I every stage in the pro series. All you gotta do is start at 50 yards and have the shooter progress down range.

^^this...actually speeds things up because you can score and reset behind the shooter as he moves down range.

[EkuJustice]

Texas star is fun too with a full lower federal flight control buckshot load too

[Brian Payne]

The most enjoyable Buckshot stage I have shot was at the first High Plains Shotgun Challenge. Silhouette targets partially covered with a no shoot at 35 yrds. Know your pattern.

[shooterrdy]

Buck shot can fly a good ways and some could get over a berm if target position is not watched, We did shoot some at Arkansas State Multi Gun match last fall at steel it went fine just added to the game that you had to shoot buck then slugs and then switch to shot

the MD has the call I guess

[AustinT]

Buck shot can fly a good ways and some could get over a berm if target position is not watched,

That sounds strangely smiliar to slugs, rifle bullets, and pistol bullets.

[dauntedfuture]

We used to have a few buckshot specified targets in some of our local 3 gun matches and we specified BS w. SG. We would often put a no-shoot close to the shoot target so you had to know your pattern. Taping up BS and slug targets is kind of a pain but not that big of a deal. Consider that if you were shooting a match that was pistol/SG option and BS was allowed you might be able to load up a tube with BS and shoot all the paper and steel with the same load. On some stages this might be an advantage depending on stage description and how you wrote the rules on a stage or for the match. Some matches have slug / pistol option on long steel. I liked the stage at TX MG in 2012 where it was pistol or BS option on the far plate rack, it was just another option.