1 or 2 loads for 3gun rifle?

[Heshin]

This might be in the wrong area, but I was wondering how many of you use 2 separate loads for your rifles, 1 for short and 1 for long range.

I have only been shooting cheap 55gr fmj for everything but my long range game is week. I worked up some 69gr smk with 25.3grs of Varget and was thinking of using them for long range and cheap stuff for the close range.

Am I over thinking this or as usual, cheap ammo is cheap?

[hitman_usmc]

There are a ton of people on both sides of this debate. I've only been shooting 55's as my local range usually has stages to 300 yards max. I've tested my rifle and 55grn load to 600 yards so far with no issues as well. This was on static steel so I can't guarantee that all types of steel will fall at that distance, but I doubt I'll find a 600 yard 3gun stage any time soon.

[Alaskapopo]

This might be in the wrong area, but I was wondering how many of you use 2 separate loads for your rifles, 1 for short and 1 for long range.

I have only been shooting cheap 55gr fmj for everything but my long range game is week. I worked up some 69gr smk with 25.3grs of Varget and was thinking of using them for long range and cheap stuff for the close range.

Am I over thinking this or as usual, cheap ammo is cheap?

That is what I do and seems to be what most people do. I actually have 3 loads. 55 grain ball for paper targets or easy steel 6 moa or larger steel. 52 grain Hornadays for 100 yards to 300 yards steel targets and 77 grain loads for the long stuff in big matches where you go past 300. Fortunately for me my 52 and 77 grain loads match up on the hold off marks pretty much the same since the 52's are sighted in at 100 which corrosponds to a 230 yard zero with the 77's then 300, 400 450, 500 yard marks are the same after that in my scope. I would not use the 52 grainers if my Noveske Shot ball better. But with ball my rifle is a 2 to 3 moa rifle. With the 52's and 77's its a 1 to 1.5 moa rifle.

Pat

Edited October 2, 2012 by Alaskapopo

[Religious Shooter]

I would say 90% of regularly participating 3 gun shooters use two loads.

No disrespect... but the other 10% are either rich or dilettantes.

[mertbl]

I only use 55 grain Hornady fmjbt. I've only shot 3 gun out to 300 yds. It works well enough, its definitely not what's holding md back. Id like to work up some 68 or 75 grain loads but really don't have the time.

[usmc0326]

This might be in the wrong area, but I was wondering how many of you use 2 separate loads for your rifles, 1 for short and 1 for long range.

I have only been shooting cheap 55gr fmj for everything but my long range game is week. I worked up some 69gr smk with 25.3grs of Varget and was thinking of using them for long range and cheap stuff for the close range.

Am I over thinking this or as usual, cheap ammo is cheap?

My local matches are under 300 yards so I use Hornady 55gr fmj-bt's and buy them in lots of 3-6 thousand (usually can be found on midway usa for about 90 bucks per thousand) to keep the cost down since shooting the SMK at that range on steel / man sized targets is a waste for me. Then I load about 500 or so 68 or 75 grain rounds for bigger matches where I have longer engagement distances. Really if your wind call is decent you should be able to hold 1.5 min with the 55 grainers. A couple of the team guys I know just rock the 60 gr amax or the 68 gr HPBT and run it.

I just try not to go nuts and have toooo many loads (When I first started I had 100 yd 52 grain match, 55gr fmj of 2 mfg's, 68 gr, and 75gr. Now I mostly just shoot the cheap 55 gr.

[poortrader]

I usually shoot Wolf 55gr, but after the FN match, I started to reconsider my long range ammo. I am planning on using the 55gr for targets 200 and closer and Hornady 75gr match steel for targets past 200 yards.

[gng4life]

I usually shoot Wolf 55gr, but after the FN match, I started to reconsider my long range ammo. I am planning on using the 55gr for targets 200 and closer and Hornady 75gr match steel for targets past 200 yards.

This is what I normally do. I found out when shooting cheap ammo and match ammo out to 200, the groups were very close. They start to open up at 300 and up so I follow the same methodology as you...

[double_r76]

I'm definitely not rich, and pray to God I'm not a dilettante. However...

I can generally run 55gr ammo for everything 200 yards and in, which is accurate enough and allows for me to get some faster splits. Past 200, I step it up to a heavier bullet pushed harder for a little better accuracy out of my barrel and to buck the 30mph crosswinds a little better when trying to reach the 480 yard targets at our local matches.

I've considered running the heavier bullets for everything, but they recoil noticeably more and cost significantly more. The lighter bullets just doesn't work for the conditions I shoot in at 480 yards.

-Randy

[Stlhead]

I would say 90% of regularly participating 3 gun shooters use two loads.

No disrespect... but the other 10% are either rich or dilettantes.

I would challenge your 90% figure. While there are a lot of people who use multiple loads, there are also a lot of us who only use one. I use a single load for heavy metal as well as a single load for limited. Smitty also uses a single load as well (a different load mind you, but still just the one), and I am aware of others that use just one load. It is not a matter of being rich, or even fancy, the 52 or 55 grain bullets that I like for limited cost about the same as the 69 grainers that Smitty likes. I challenge the belief that heavy bullets are better for our game, or that the logistical headache of multiple ammo in a match or on a stage is worth the hassle. The whole 55 vs 77 topic has been hammered in the past, and it still seems to come up so it is far from settled.

Cheers!

[FishingFool]

Two loads. 55gr for under 200.

77 for everything else. Sighted in for 77's and the 55 gr is close enough. A big match I only bring the 77's. this winter I wanna play around more with 69grers.

[slemmo]

Fiocchi 55FMJ for everything, have not shot a match over 350 meters yet.

[MarkCO]

I have played with this more than I care to admit.

But I agree, I don't think it is anywhere near 90% use 2 loads. I am aware of at least three top tier shooters that use one load across the course, and yes, RM3G and Blue Ridge get out to 600 yards at times. An accurate 55 at 3100+ fps will get the job done across the course and so will anything heavier.

Most 55 fmj is not that accurate, mostly due to the poor bases. I have tried using a counter sink to clean up the bases of Win 55 FMJs and I can see a significnat improvement in accuracy.

The biggest issue to me is not accuracy, but energy. Depending on the match, and the targets used, 55 FMJs won't indicate as well on flashers and may not take down LaRues. Yes, if the LaRues are set up right and all that...but I've seen bullet impacts with 55s and lighter on LaRues through binoculars that were target hits and they did not fall. That frustration can be avoided.

If you run one load, then you are probably best running a tuned gas system and a load that is at the upper end...55s at 3100+, 69s at 2800+, etc. If you run 2 loads (or more) then you have choices and more complexity with holds and such. Tune and zero for the heavy load or the light load? What floors me is the guys who use 2 loads and still run 55s at 3100+ and a heavy. That is a waste to me and gives no real benefit...just shoot one load then. The accuracy potential between a good 55 and a good 69 is insignificant, even in wind. Either you know your holds or you don't.

If I shot one or two major matches a year, I would probably just shoot a single factory load from Hornady at majors and a cheap 55 handload at shorter range local matches.

[Religious Shooter]

Of those who posted so far:

Only one load:

Hitman

Mertbl

Stlhead

Slemmo

Two loads:

Me

Alaska

USMC(?)

Poortrader(?)

GNG4life(?)

DoubleR

FF

MarkCO(?) don't know.

So 7/11 = 63%.

I qualified it with regular 3 gun shooters. In my book the means he/she shoots 1-2 matches a month and maybe 1+ big match a year.

I'm calling one of those four above as a non-regular shooter. He doesn't fit my criteria as a regular 3G shooter.

So 70% in this thread.

[Religious Shooter]

I would challenge your 90% figure. While there are a lot of people who use multiple loads, there are also a lot of us who only use one. I use a single load for heavy metal as well as a single load for limited. Smitty also uses a single load as well (a different load mind you, but still just the one), and I am aware of others that use just one load. It is not a matter of being rich, or even fancy, the 52 or 55 grain bullets that I like for limited cost about the same as the 69 grainers that Smitty likes. I challenge the belief that heavy bullets are better for our game, or that the logistical headache of multiple ammo in a match or on a stage is worth the hassle. The whole 55 vs 77 topic has been hammered in the past, and it still seems to come up so it is far from settled.

What does that mean?

[MarkCO]

MarkCO(?) don't know.

For your record keeping... I shoot 1 load at locals, I shot 1 load at 2 majors and 3 loads at 4 majors this year.

[Religious Shooter]

There you go. 90%.

[Heshin]

Perhaps a poll would be beneficial...

[Bryan 45]

Throw me in the 1 load column. I have used nothing but 55g Grace Ammo all year, to include 5 3 Gun Nation Pro Series matches and a few locals. No problems hitting the long distance stuff at Texas (490 yards), Pro Am (320) or FNH (380) after I figured out how to properly use the reticle in the scope. (No one can convince me these damn scopes are easy to use....)

I do see merit in higher downrange energy on a target when ROs are calling hits. Sitting behind a spotting scope, it's amazing to see the difference in a target's reaction at 500 yards when hit w/ a 75g vs a 55g. I don't see a lot of benefit to less drop or drift, as long as the chosen 55g load is consistent. All of this is assuming we're shooting 3 gun (under 500 yards) and not long range matches (over 500 yards). Especially considering the number of target over 350 is few and far between, at least in the majors I've shot in the past few years.

[T Bacus]

Two loads for me. I'm sighted in with 62gr Remington Match but use 55gr ball for anything that doesn't involve small targets past 150 yards.

[co-exprs]

I agree with MarcCO. I also use 2 loads for energy reasons. My.55 does 3100 and my 69 does 2850. They impact within .5moa of each other out to 600. I use the 69's when it's windy or when I want to rock the steel a little harder to get my hit call. I just got lucky that I don't have to adjust my glass at all. Both rounds are completely interchangable.

[Lead-Head]

In my opinion, Good, reliable, and accurate 55gr will do all you need to in 3 gun. Even the sub- 3000fps loads will do the job if you know your holds. Buy a lot of it, shoot a lot of it to get some practice.

I don't understand some of the guys who shoot crap ammo for short range, but match stuff for long range. If you go with one load or two, they both need to have decent quality. Short range stages can eat your lunch if your ammo is cheap crap and your rifle malfunctions.

I agree with Mr. Ray, the heavier bullets hit the steel harder, and are easier to call hits. I just take the money I saved buying all 55 gr ammo and tip the ROs on the long range stages before I shoot them, problems solved and more cost effective.

Edited October 3, 2012 by Lead-Head

[D.Hayden]

2 for me. I think most shooters do as well.

My 55s are great out to 300.. and I've hit targets (in practice) at 500+.. probably lucky

There's been matches, that 55s would not take down the steel.. just not enough energy. And shooting 69s on a 40 round hose fest at max 25 yards just seems wasteful..

Put me down in the cheap bastards column.

[Religious Shooter]

My short range ammo isn't crap ammo.

It's cheaper but it has the same practical performance as my longer range ammo up close.

I don't see the logic of shooting costlier ammo if I don't get any benefit from it.

And of course I wouldn't be spending more money on my longer range load if I didn't get anything in return.

[MustangGreg66]

I shoot two loads and I'm a little different than the others here so far.

I shoot Hornady 55gr FMJ handloads running around 2900-3000 fps on anything 200yards and under and might even back that off a little. Then I run a screaming hot 53gr Hornady V-max for anything over 200, something around 3300fps. With the high BC and velocity the 53gr load matches or surpasses the SS109 drop reticle in my Burris Tac30 scope and I zero it for that. My 55gr load is low but centered just about everywhere else and I know the hold over at different ranges. One of our local MDs have a habit of using lots of hard cover and no-shoots.

On the other hand, I have a friend who loves the Hornady 68 gr HPBT and shoots that across the course. His rational is that it's not that much more expensive to shoot a match with it and it's consistent then. What would it be, $20 more? He has a point, but I like my lighter 55gr load for hosing and only use my hot 53gr load when I need the flatter trajectory. The 55s are like 7.5cents each where the 53s are more like 14, so double the cost of the bullet.

Edited October 3, 2012 by MustangGreg66