EricW Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 /David Lee Roth Mode Seeing as the next ice age will come and go before I ever see the broadcast of 2003 Nationals, if someone wanted to make a decent video/dvd covering the 2004 Nationals I'd be happy to send you $25 for a copy. In fact, I'll be a lot of others would too. I'd even offer you an EXCLUSIVE, that's right EXCLUSIVE arrangement to sell your video/DVD on my webspace and you could keep ALL the profits. Seeing as outside forces will never get their sh*t together to make this happen, we might was well do it ourselves. ===================================== Edit: This would be a good way for someone (who is willing to put forth the effort in filming and production) to pay for their trip to Barry and then some... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulm540 Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 Count me in. I'll pay for one in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dminor Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 EricW, What an excellent idea! Especially since our organization seems unwilling to make it happen. I hope someone takes the time to do it. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 If you are going to sell it, I would strongly suggest getting signed permission from every person that is shown on the video. If anyone on the video is sponsored, and you can see the sponsor's logo, I would suggest getting permssion from the sponsor too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 If you are going to sell it, I would strongly suggest getting signed permission from every person that is shown on the video. If anyone on the video is sponsored, and you can see the sponsor's logo, I would suggest getting permssion from the sponsor too. David please, don't take it as personal, I don't mean this, I know you're going to give advice and help, but it's crap like that that plagues todays world... Whenever you plan to do something genuinely useful you have to deal with silly legal implications and trammels that will eventually have you resign. I wonder: why would someone who didn't sign any permission bother to legally sue the video producer for this? Nationals are a public event, if you wanna keep your privacy don't even show there your face! Why would a sponsor who didn't sign any permission bother to legally sue the video producer for this? As a sponsor, you're supposed to be pleased by having your name fully shown in any coverage of a public event. It might even bring you bigger sales profit. Or do you think being named as sponsor and having your logo shown will bring you disrepute? Shouldn't have you thought about it before sponsoring? Again, sorry David if this might sound personal to you, it really isn't. It's just my rant against this world upside down moral values! On topic: I'll buy a copy too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 (edited) It's not crap and it is personal. There is a little thing called copyrights that a lot of people don't think applies to them. Not to mention other laws that deal with privacy and whatnot. Taping something in public for your own personal, private use is one thing. Taking that tape and selling it is another matter. All I was doing was making a suggesting based on my experience that would minimize any potential future complications. If you want to go and throw caution to the wind, be my guest. There seems to be a great deal of lawyer bashing going on, but whenever someone needs one, they can't find one fast enough. If you don't like the laws, then please, go work to change them. But spare me the bashing. Edited July 28, 2004 by davidwiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 Err, ahh, "copyright?" If anyone has a copyright claim in a case such as this, it is the USPSA. All the rest of us are participating in a public event. We have no claim against the videographer unless he/she misrepresents us, our actions or statements. Example: Bob Smith from Dirt, ND runs, trips, falls down, gets DQ'd and leaves muttering about his own clumsiness. Commentator: "Too bad, Bob was in line for 3rd place D Class Production. He'll have to content himself with practice until next year." No case. Bob falls, etc. Commentator: "Look at that clumsy goof from the hicks. He's got no business running around with a gun!" Actionable. As for the rest of us, if you don't want your smiling face in the background of a match video, wear a bag over your head or shoot in a match that is closed to all but paying particpants. If the public can come in and watch, smile for the cameras. Now, the matter of doing it for commercial gain comes up. As before, the holder of copyright is the USPSA. You think the Tour de France insisted every person with a camera get signed releases from all riders and spectators? Not a chance. But the riders did sign off on releasign their images to the Tour, who then sold the rights to cable, etc. Check your release and entry form for the Nationals. Somewhere along the way you've given the USPSA permission to use your image. If anyone has a claim on proceeds from this little DVD venture, it is the USPSA. Would they? If you sold a million of them, you bet. If you sold enough to cover your travel expenses and the cost of DVDs, not a chance. I'd buy one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 David, I didn't mean to throw your advice to the wind, and I didn't mean to bash lawyers, maybe I didn't say it enough in my previous post. What I wanted to say is that I can't conceive someone going to a public event, and then telling everybody who's filming the event "you need my signed permission to release that video". As I stated b4, if privacy is someone's major concern, he shouldn't be showing his face at public events. It was a rant against a kinda wrong (IMO) way of reasoning. I'll make an example: when I got married, the ceremony was held in a local church with a public park nearby. I had the pleasure of having a well known VIP, close friend of mine, taking part in the ceremony. Unknown to me, a reporter from a local newspaper took photos of me, my wife and this person in the park, then published an article. I didn't like that, because I'm not a public man, but I thought "heck, if I didn't want this, I should have held the ceremony at my place, not in a public one". It never crossed my mind to appeal to privacy in this case for the previously stated reason. Sorry you took it personally, it was not my intent. Pat, you're way better than me at expressing my very same feelings in written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 I would buy one. I have been looking for a copy of the 03 one to show some friends that are kinda interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted July 28, 2004 Author Share Posted July 28, 2004 Frankly, I don't give a rats behind about the socio-political implications. This is totally based on my incredibly selfish desire to actually *see* the nationals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 Especially since our organization seems unwilling to make it happen. I hope someone takes the time to do it. Not really a solution to the "problem" now isn't it? Shouldn't have you thought about it before sponsoring? As a sponsor, if someone is shooting video, and I'm not aware of their commercial intentions, you bet that I want to know who's taping. A sponsorship agreement more likely than not doesn't cover re-use of the images in VIDEO promotion/production. Matchbooks, flyers, etc. yes. Commercial video, no. As for the rest of us, if you don't want your smiling face in the background of a match video, wear a bag over your head or shoot in a match that is closed to all but paying particpants. We do have rights to privacy and if a video is being recorded for commercial purposes a release must be signed by the person on the video. If anyone has a claim on proceeds from this little DVD venture, it is the USPSA. Would they? Unless it's in the match registration/release form, actually no. [Attorney hat off] Frankly, I don't give a rats behind about the socio-political implications. This is totally based on my incredibly selfish desire to actually *see* the nationals. Amen to that! Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriggerT Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 I would order a copy. Can't make it to the nationals, but I would like to see them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 http://www.ipwatchdog.com/rop.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted July 28, 2004 Author Share Posted July 28, 2004 Does anybody *really* think their "star power" will be infringed by a Nationals video? Good grief! How many gajillion times have the big dogs had their pictures taken and put up on the web without their permission with no ensuing legal calamity. Guess we'll have to include a trial subscription of reality medication with each sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 Looks like if you taped and ran it as "news", you'd be ok on the personal rights-- USPSA may object if they have some sort of venue issue. Worst case me and my video camera will be there. My best guess is I won't be on the SS and probably won't be following them around, and will need plenty of non-recording me-time, but you get what you can, right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 My concern for other shooters and sponsors is based upon a Discovery Channel (could have been A & E) story on 'racist war mongers' in the US. During their narrations, there was video of a SOF match shown on the screen and friends, with their faces blurred described as racist war mongers. Pretty tough to swallow, even if their faces were blurred. Video is fun to watch in the right hands. Obviously the average IPSC shooter doesn't have ill itentions. However, with someone with different motives, things get a little sketchy. Look at how quick the IPSC list was brought up when it was found that one of the shooters in Paduka (spelling), KY was an IPSC shooter. These are general concerns. If you want to put me on film great. It'll be a waste of good film, but I'll be ready for my close up Mr. De Mill (spelling). Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 My concern for other shooters and sponsors is based upon a Discovery Channel (could have been A & E) story on 'racist war mongers' in the US. During their narrations, there was video of a SOF match shown on the screen and friends, with their faces blurred described as racist war mongers. Some folks I know were the guys in the video Rich describes. Locally a number of us now belong to Team RWM as an inside joke on that piece of biased reporting. So when you see us in our Team RWM hats you will know it doesn’t stand for Rancid Whale Meat -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted July 28, 2004 Author Share Posted July 28, 2004 I'm not sure what any of this has to do with the price of bananas, but I hereby promise that any nationals video sold off my site won't portray USPSA members as angry white men, angry white women, racist baby whale killers, or whatever other crap some glass half empty yahoo dreams up. If you're a member of the Pink Pistols, we'll be all to happy to point that out, however. Members of the Gun Toting Liberals will be mercilessly persecuted as well. There's a billion reasons not to do something. Do it anyway. Jeez.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 George, I thought it stood for Richmond Wholesale Meats. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 Nah, it’s Richmond Waste Management Fuggedaboudit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 It looks to me like that contract was pretty exclusive: not only could other companies not shoot video of the match, nobody can watch it, either. Pat Sweeney has it right--the release for Nationals says you give USPSA the rights to any video, photographs, etc. I think that's part of the sponsor's deal as well, but I'm not sure about that. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 So everyone take your digital video cameras and shoot "personal footage". They can try and stop you but they really can't stop you because they know what a huge PR hoohaw will occur if they do it. Then someone (or a group of someones) put together a "video scrapbook" of the 2004 Nats. Sell it with all proceeds above production costs going to some charity or USPSA Juniors. Put me down for a copy. And just so we can all feel like it is good stuff everyone remember to take footage of Todd's feet when you chat with him. (It was Todd whose feet were interviewed in the 2002 Nats coverage...wasn't it?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted July 29, 2004 Author Share Posted July 29, 2004 Despite the usual, utterly depressing, USPSA pessissm, the offer still stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 (edited) I hope I didn't sound too pessimistic--I"m all in favor of a free enterprise approach to this, and I'm not about to shut down anyone with a video camera. I should clarify--the release, AFAIK, doesn't say that you can't shoot video, it releases USPSA to use your image, likeness, etc., in their video or magazine, or photographs, etc.... Hell, I'd even buy a copy or two! Troy Edited July 29, 2004 by mactiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 I'm sure all of you know that most of the 2003 Nationals stages are on the HoserCam website at: 2003 Nationals I will be at the 2004 Nationals with the HoserCam as well (hopefully with a lot less gun troubles and cussing on tape!) Nolan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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