9mm major reloading issues

[GPRifle]

Hi guys!

My 1st post in the forum!

I just started to shoot an open gun shorty in 9mm major.

STI frame and magazines.

I have 2 concerns.

The first is that it does not want to feed my reloaded rounds properly.

They nosedive in the magazine or they do not want to chamber.

When I use new brass it workes 98% of the times and if I use used brass 70%. When I use factory ammo it works 100%.

I notice when I load up the magazines that the reloaded rounds nosedives, especially the last rounds when loading the magazines full.

I load Zero 125gr bullets at oal 1.189

Second is that I would like to load so that I get more pressure in the comp to make it work a little better.

Now I use 7.7 gr ot 3n37 and that just makes major factor.

Any ideas on what might work better?

I can get all different Vihtavuori powders.

Thank you.

Gus

Edited June 17, 2012 by GPRifle

[noypi916]

Interesting... try shortening your OAL to 1.165 to 1.170. Also on my Open Gun (5"barrel), I use 8.2gr of Vit 3n37 to make major.

[superdude]

just for clarification, it's not so much a pressure thing at the compensator as it is gas volume. using a slower powder that requires a larger charge weight for the same velocity should provide more force to make the compensator work better. 3N38 and N105 are slower and require more charge weight than 3N37 for the same velocity so they would be a good choice.

[GPRifle]

Interesting... try shortening your OAL to 1.165 to 1.170. Also on my Open Gun (5"barrel), I use 8.2gr of Vit 3n37 to make major.

I have tried OAL 1.173 but I think it was worse or the same as before. Should I try shorter anyway?

/ Gus

[GPRifle]

just for clarification, it's not so much a pressure thing at the compensator as it is gas volume. using a slower powder that requires a larger charge weight for the same velocity should provide more force to make the compensator work better. 3N38 and N105 are slower and require more charge weight than 3N37 for the same velocity so they would be a good choice.

Can you fit enough of them powders in a 9mm case to reach major?

/Gus

[superdude]

oh, right, 9mm. Vihtavuori lists them for use with 147 grain bullets in the 9mm. and N105 with 130 grain bullets.

Vihtavuori also list them with lighter bullets in their 9X21 data, which is essentially a 9X19 but with a longer case.

and noypi916 appears to be using 3N38 as noted in his post.

[GPRifle]

oh, right, 9mm. Vihtavuori lists them for use with 147 grain bullets in the 9mm. and N105 with 130 grain bullets.

Vihtavuori also list them with lighter bullets in their 9X21 data, which is essentially a 9X19 but with a longer case.

and noypi916 appears to be using 3N38 as noted in his post.

Do Vihtavuori have 9mm major load data?

noypi916 used 3n37 in his post.

Gus

[superdude]

oops, sorry i can't read.

I've used their 9mm Luger data with 3N38 and 147 grain bullets and made major. but it also showed high pressure signs.

Vit's 9X21 data shows some that will make major with 115 and 123 grain bullets.

[GPRifle]

I was thinking that my feeding issues could be because of more coke bottle shape on the used cases compared to the new ones and the factory ammo.

Any thoughts about that?

Gus

[Dragonstriker]

I was thinking that my feeding issues could be because of more coke bottle shape on the used cases compared to the new ones and the factory ammo.

Any thoughts about that?

Gus

That doesn't sound right... at all.

When you say coke bottle shape, is it narrowed in the middle or is it bulged at the base?

[GPRifle]

I was thinking that my feeding issues could be because of more coke bottle shape on the used cases compared to the new ones and the factory ammo.

Any thoughts about that?

Gus

That doesn't sound right... at all.

When you say coke bottle shape, is it narrowed in the middle or is it bulged at the base?

This is how they look like:

[OperationHitFactor]

Ok, trying to find a slower powder should be pushed to the side for now. Tons of good stuff on that in the reloading section.

Let's focus on the ammo. First, you have way way too much crimp. You actually put so much on, the bullet buldged, this very well could be your feeding issue too. The crimp should just be a touch, just enough to take the bell out from the expanding die. Next, check and make sure your sizing die goes all the way down. The brass almost looks short stroked or you don't have the die set up right to get closer to the base. As for the coke bottle shape a little bit is usual depending on the type of sizing die and then type of crimp die. Start back from scratch and go back over your reloading bench step by step.

Don't mess, adjust, tamper, or smith your gun until you have your ammo squared away. Once your ammo is good, then check your mags, then your gun. I'd recommend finding a good local smith. They can usually look at your ammo too and help with that.

[GPRifle]

Ok, trying to find a slower powder should be pushed to the side for now. Tons of good stuff on that in the reloading section.

Let's focus on the ammo. First, you have way way too much crimp. You actually put so much on, the bullet buldged, this very well could be your feeding issue too. The crimp should just be a touch, just enough to take the bell out from the expanding die. Next, check and make sure your sizing die goes all the way down. The brass almost looks short stroked or you don't have the die set up right to get closer to the base. As for the coke bottle shape a little bit is usual depending on the type of sizing die and then type of crimp die. Start back from scratch and go back over your reloading bench step by step.

Don't mess, adjust, tamper, or smith your gun until you have your ammo squared away. Once your ammo is good, then check your mags, then your gun. I'd recommend finding a good local smith. They can usually look at your ammo too and help with that.

You are right, I will start with less crimp to see what happens.

/Gus

[CocoBolo]

I'll agree that crimp looks excessive. You didn't say what mags you were using, but regardless of SVI or STI w/spacer if it runs 20 out of 29 from a big stick then I would replace the mag spring. Nose dives can come when space develops between the rounds at the front of the mag, with the space when the slide starts to push on the back of the round the nose goes down. Having the correct angle on the follower also helps to cure this, and a slight tilt to the right when looking at the back of the follower.

I use to use the 125gr JHP Zeros in my 9 major guns, but it always ran just 99%, I tried RN bullets MTG CMJ and got that 1% I was lacking.

While you can shoot about any load long enough to get use to it, if you are looking for something with a little more gas that will fit in the case and work, I would suggest Silhouette or HS6, and lastly AutoComp. If your obsession goes beyond the normal then try some AA#7, 10gr with a 125gr will put you at about 172 pf. All of these powders have their down side, Dirty, temp or reverse temp sensative, vary by lot etc. My load is 7.7gr of Silhouette w/ SPP set 1.165 MTG 124gr CMJ. I developed this load in a poorly compensated shorty and most folks I let shoot that gun say no way it is major, and in my full size gun well they think its plain cheating. I tried 3N37 a bit snappy for me plus it heats the gun to tempatures its never been to before.

Be sure to clean mags everytime they hit the ground, and the minimum on a big stick is to unload it an reload it, impacting the ground can turn a round bassakwards in the mag, a tough jam to clear. A whif of dry lube don't hurt either.

I ran the same mag springs for 3 years with 38SC, the same mags with 9 major need the springs replaced about every six months, go figure.

[RiggerJJ]

Too much crimp...

roll size used brass to fix the bulge at the bottom

Use a U die

Try HS6, you will get reusable brass and better comp action

JMHO...

jj

[Mat Price]

I can't say anything more than what Ron said. I don't think fixing the crimp is going to help your feed issue. I think your mags may need tuning or you load is to long and dragging the front of the mag on the way up. In my sti mags I can't load longer than 1.170 with Montana golds but with pre delta I can load to 1.178. But I load 1.165 and have flawless feeding. I have never not once in a match had a malfunction in my 9 major gun. But also yeah back off the crimp.

Also search the reloading sub forum for my latest posts on finding more gas to run the comp.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Mat Price

[RH45]

O.K. If I read the original post correctly, it says that factory ammo runs 100%. If that's the case, it pretty much says it's not the gun, or magazines.

Try to duplicate what a factory load looks like, with your reloads. You only need enough crimp to take the bell out of the case, but, just a hair more, if you're using jacketed bullets won't hurt anything. The crimp on a 9mm does nothing, your bullet is held in by the internal dimension of the case.

I run mostly Zero, 125 grain jhps, but, I load them shorter than most people here--about 1.15" OAL, and have run thousands without a bobble.

[CocoBolo]

O.K. If I read the original post correctly, it says that factory ammo runs 100%. If that's the case, it pretty much says it's not the gun, or magazines.

Try to duplicate what a factory load looks like, with your reloads. You only need enough crimp to take the bell out of the case, but, just a hair more, if you're using jacketed bullets won't hurt anything. The crimp on a 9mm does nothing, your bullet is held in by the internal dimension of the case.

I run mostly Zero, 125 grain jhps, but, I load them shorter than most people here--about 1.15" OAL, and have run thousands without a bobble.

Actually my first thought was the factory ammo, however, reloaded cases don't sack as well and take more force to feed due to the abnormalies in the case. It's what I refer to as F of X everything is fine then just .0005 and you got a problem. Roll sizing is great, that is why I run all my brass thru a case pro. I think I have a U-die or two laying around rusting, no a fan of them, I have run brass without roll sizing sized in a dillon die or harnady die and they ran fine, but DROP CHECK and be pickey if it dont' drop in and out its NFG!

A little crimp is required, you get a 9 major set back and you will know why. Not much just enough to hold it in place and for this you use the simple thumb test, measure the round take your thumb press it firmly but not hard as you can against the bench measure it again, if it is shorter you need a bit more crimp.

While we are on brass, check all brass with a magnet, some of it isn't brass but brass washed steel it will jam up in the chamber and you will need to drive it out. Cost me a trouphy at the Gator a couple years ago.

Shoot 9 major once and let it go. I figured this out pretty fast when I picked up my brass threw it in the tumbler then went what are all those primers doing in there?

Good Luck let us know how it goes. I'd didn't say anthing about OAL, I have a Mason Head space reamer, if I wanted to go much longer a few turns and I could do it. But if it isn't broke don't fix it.

[Mat Price]

O.K. If I read the original post correctly, it says that factory ammo runs 100%. If that's the case, it pretty much says it's not the gun, or magazines.

Try to duplicate what a factory load looks like, with your reloads. You only need enough crimp to take the bell out of the case, but, just a hair more, if you're using jacketed bullets won't hurt anything. The crimp on a 9mm does nothing, your bullet is held in by the internal dimension of the case.

I run mostly Zero, 125 grain jhps, but, I load them shorter than most people here--about 1.15" OAL, and have run thousands without a bobble.

Exactly how do smash enough 3n38 or hs-6 in a case that short and make major? And if his rounds are dragging from being to long it's a mag issue. I would run a major 9 gun gun under 1.145 to be honest I wouldn't run it that short. I say that because people have issues with glock mags

Edited June 18, 2012 by Mat Price

[BrianATL]

9.4 of 3n38 at 1.15 is compressed but doable Hs-6 same length isn't even compressed

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: If you want more gas to work the comp Hodgdon HS-6 is the one to use. I would start at 8.4grains and work up at the OAL of 1.170". I can use either Winchester magnum primers or small rifle primers. With 3N37 my load to make 171-173PF flattens the primers and gives more dot movement and runs a little hot. I am using 115 grain Montana Gold JHP's. Now the feed issue you should check the feed lips on your mags. I set mine at 0.357" front to back. That will feed all day long if the gun is right. For STI mags use Grams followers or Dawsons. With SVI mags you can use Bolen followers and springs. Hope this helps. Thanks, Eric

[Rptstoy1]

I've been shooting Major 9 for the last 8 years now and used 9.4 gr of 3n38 with124 gr MG cmj, Win small pistol or CCI small rifle primers at 1.165 to 1.170 with NO ISSUES. On my Bedell shorty with 2 barrel ports = 171 PF and on the Bedell Mid-size without barrel ports = 169 PF.. Also, I'm using either STI mags with spacers or SV mags without spacers.

[Mat Price]

There is no way you can cram 9 grains of hs6 in a case at 1.15. Yes you will use less powder to get to the same power factor but less powder equals less gas equals wrong way for what he wants. I load 9.6 grains of hs6 with a 115 and get 173-175 out of my trubor 3 holes. I wish I could load 1.175 and drop in a couple more tenths. 9.6 at 1.235 in my scomp gun makes 168.

EDIT

LOL I am not gonna delete this but leave it and call my own self a tired dumb ass! I was reading 1.15 and thinking 1.115 oh well I have done worse things with no sleep.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Mat Price

[BrianATL]

There is no way you can cram 9 grains of hs6 in a case at 1.15. Yes you will use less powder to get to the same power factor but less powder equals less gas equals wrong way for what he wants. I load 9.6 grains of hs6 with a 115 and get 173-175 out of my trubor 3 holes. I wish I could load 1.175 and drop in a couple more tenths. 9.6 at 1.235 in my scomp gun makes 168.

Maybe you should try things before you say there is no way to do them

[Desmo412]

My current load is 8.7gr HS6 under a Zero 115 JHP at 1.140. I would load longer, but I would need to throat the barrel first. There is still plenty of room left in the case.