Single Stack Minor

[ktm300]

I have been shooting for about two years. I started with a .45 Colt single stack and did OK. Looking at the costs .45 was not going to allow me to shoot as much as I thought I would need in practice to get better so I went to an STI Trojan in 9mm. I took a class from Manny and shot 10k rounds over last summer and I got to a point where I was shooting the 9mm pretty well. Won C in a couple of big matches and in general I was having a good time about to make it to B and looking forward to it.

Then I thought, wow I am missing a lot of points shooting minor so off I went to an STI Trojan in .40. Well the wheels fell off. People I was beating without much trouble started beating me. I thought "I need to practice with the .40 more" So I loaded up a few thousand rounds and got better but still not back to where I was with the 9mm.

Ok so I need more trigger time and .40 is kind of expensive so I shot up about 1500 rounds of .22 on Sunday. Man, I could call shots, hit all A's go fast etc, etc, etc. Switch back to the .40 and I expect to need a few rounds to get the feel for the recoil but after 200 rounds I gave up. Just did not get there.

Today I take the old 9mm out and after about 50 rounds I am calling shots well, shooting AA etc. I look at my drill times and on adjusted time (.2 for each point down) I am smoking my drills. In most cases the drills where all A's. I was shooting better than I did when I stopped shooting the 9mm, much better than with the .40. My guess is the time with the .40 made me better with the 9mm so it was not a total waste.

So the .40's are going in the safe for a while, I am taking the 9mm Trojan back out and I will see how it goes. I need to shoot a lot of A's but that is not normaly an issue for me so we will see.

When I have time to go spend some time with a good instructor who can help me figure out how to shoot the .40 I will try one more time. My guess is I need to work on my recoil control. 1 point down on C's is nice but I am not so sure about the 8 round thing or the extra $50 a thousand in bullet cost.

OK sorry for the rant but I feel better now.

[pjb45]

The 2010 SSNats Women's champion shot a 9 mm. I think TGO shot a 9mm at the Desert Classic.

If you are getting your points and are faster, don't sweat the macho crap about major.

[ktm300]

The 2010 SSNats Women's champion shot a 9 mm.

LMAO, that just might reinforce the wimp part!

I just have more fun shooting it. Last time I looked I was not going to make a living shooting, might as well have fun.

[Carmoney]

I really enjoy shooting my 9mm 1911s, so much so that I recently upgraded to a couple high-end 1911 pistols in that caliber. Most of the time, and depending on how the stages are designed, 8-round major is a more competitive option. But the difference isn't huge, and there are some matches where 10-round minor can be an advantage.

[ktm300]

I really enjoy shooting my 9mm 1911s, so much so that I recently upgraded to a couple high-end 1911 pistols in that caliber. Most of the time, and depending on how the stages are designed, 8-round major is a more competitive option. But the difference isn't huge, and there are some matches where 10-round minor can be an advantage.

I see a lot of stages where 10 is faster but it sure sucks to see 8 or 9 c's on a 32 round stage. If I have the same hits , lets say down 9 in major, 18 in minor and run the stage in 26 seconds in major, I need to run it in 24.5 in minor, or get 5 more A's. On my practice range it seems to work out.

[dirty whiteboy]

I have been shooting for about two years. I started with a .45 Colt single stack and did OK. Looking at the costs .45 was not going to allow me to shoot as much as I thought I would need in practice to get better so I went to an STI Trojan in 9mm. I took a class from Manny and shot 10k rounds over last summer and I got to a point where I was shooting the 9mm pretty well. Won C in a couple of big matches and in general I was having a good time about to make it to B and looking forward to it.

Then I thought, wow I am missing a lot of points shooting minor so off I went to an STI Trojan in .40. Well the wheels fell off. People I was beating without much trouble started beating me. I thought "I need to practice with the .40 more" So I loaded up a few thousand rounds and got better but still not back to where I was with the 9mm.

Ok so I need more trigger time and .40 is kind of expensive so I shot up about 1500 rounds of .22 on Sunday. Man, I could call shots, hit all A's go fast etc, etc, etc. Switch back to the .40 and I expect to need a few rounds to get the feel for the recoil but after 200 rounds I gave up. Just did not get there.

Today I take the old 9mm out and after about 50 rounds I am calling shots well, shooting AA etc. I look at my drill times and on adjusted time (.2 for each point down) I am smoking my drills. In most cases the drills where all A's. I was shooting better than I did when I stopped shooting the 9mm, much better than with the .40. My guess is the time with the .40 made me better with the 9mm so it was not a total waste.

So the .40's are going in the safe for a while, I am taking the 9mm Trojan back out and I will see how it goes. I need to shoot a lot of A's but that is not normaly an issue for me so we will see.

When I have time to go spend some time with a good instructor who can help me figure out how to shoot the .40 I will try one more time. My guess is I need to work on my recoil control. 1 point down on C's is nice but I am not so sure about the 8 round thing or the extra $50 a thousand in bullet cost.

OK sorry for the rant but I feel better now.

HMMM! Did that question I ask you on Saturday speed up this decision? You are welcome!

[392heminut]

The majority of us aren't sponsored pro's so we are doing it for the enjoyment of the sport (as are most of the pro's). Therein is your answer, do what is the most fun for you and don't worry about the major/minor PF thing!

[ktm300]

HMMM! Did that question I ask you on Saturday speed up this decision? You are welcome!

That and another marginal day shooting. I was going to say thanks the next time I saw you.

[sperman]

Scott Warren shot a 9mm in the Single Stack Nationals last weekend. You can call him a wimp if you like, but I would advise against it.

[ktm300]

Scott Warren shot a 9mm in the Single Stack Nationals last weekend. You can call him a wimp if you like, but I would advise against it.

Good point Scott. 71% doesn't sound wimpy to me.

And the SS Nationals was probably set up well for 8 rounds unlike most of the big matches that seem to be set up for multiples of 10.

[TonyT]

Personally I can control 45ACP major a lot easier than 40 S&W major loads. The 45 gives me more of a shove while the 40 gives me a whack.

[dsmw5142]

I shot minor at area 6 and didn't do too horrible even though a bombed a couple stages. Do what you like and have fun

[Victor_R]

I've shot SS minor with my Trojan for almost a year and done pretty well in my area. I've switched to L10 minor to concentrate on my accuracy a little more. I have two level II matchs coming up this month and I know I won't come on top but I will try my hardest to get my shots.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Victor R

[dirty whiteboy]

Personally I can control 45ACP major a lot easier than 40 S&W major loads. The 45 gives me more of a shove while the 40 gives me a whack.

I agree.

[CZinSC]

People I was beating without much trouble started beating me.

I wouldn't say you were beating me "without much trouble".

You and I have definitely swapped accuracy %'s lately. Looks like I'm going to have step up my game even more now that you're going back to your "accurate gun".

[waktasz]

What is your .40 major load? I bet that has a lot to do with it.

When I switch back and forth from minor to major I do notice the difference and major can feel violent at times. Once I'm dialed into shooting match after the winter offseason (and shooting a lot of IDPA minor loads because USPSA wimps don't shoot in the cold) I don't notice the recoil being violent at all.

[dskinsler83]

Try. 40 down loaded to minor it's really nice!!!

[ktm300]

People I was beating without much trouble started beating me.

I wouldn't say you were beating me "without much trouble".

You and I have definitely swapped accuracy %'s lately. Looks like I'm going to have step up my game even more now that you're going back to your "accurate gun".

You where not who I was talking about. Take a look lower on the results list. If I get in front of you or the other Glen is a good race and normaly a percentage point or less. Lately I have been tossing a miss on just about every stage. Last week I had one good stage in 4 and followed it with 2 no shoots and a miss on 5. Not going to do well shooting like that.

Anyway, I don't think it's an issue with the gun, just how I shoot it. With enough practice I can probably figure it out and I may try. I thought it was going to be a simple change from the 9 Trojan to the .40 Trojan. Bad thought, it will take a lot of rounds until I can shoot the .40 without having to think about it. Until I can do that I am going to shoot the 9.

[ktm300]

What is your .40 major load? I bet that has a lot to do with it.

When I switch back and forth from minor to major I do notice the difference and major can feel violent at times. Once I'm dialed into shooting match after the winter offseason (and shooting a lot of IDPA minor loads because USPSA wimps don't shoot in the cold) I don't notice the recoil being violent at all.

<<major can feel violent at times>>

Yep especialy next to 9mm.

It's a 180g JHP Montana gold over 4.8 of Tightgroup. 168 - 170 PF depending on how hot it is.

What is your .40 minor load?

[1911aow]

"I thought it was going to be a simple change from the 9 Trojan to the .40 Trojan. Bad thought, it will take a lot of rounds until I can shoot the .40 without having to think about it" & "Not going to do well shooting like that"

I personally dont think you are struggling with a gun or caliber problem. In your above post and quoted statements lies the problem you are experiencing ie. focusing on the end result and not on the process of shooting, and not giving EVERY shot the required attention it needs.

I have also struggled with the exact same problem for many years. Since I have started to not worry about my placing or the "end result" and return to calling every shot and just paying attention to MY shooting I have improved in leaps and bounds. Shooting has also become fun and interessting again. I learned a lot about this from Brian's book and from other members on this site. if you havent yet, buy and read Brian's book carefully. If have you have read it, then read it again. I find some food for thought, and some measure of improvement, every single time I open that book lots of helpful people and info on this site too.

I suggest sticking with the .40 platform and just working on your shot calling and mental game.

It worked for me.

[ktm300]

"I thought it was going to be a simple change from the 9 Trojan to the .40 Trojan. Bad thought, it will take a lot of rounds until I can shoot the .40 without having to think about it" & "Not going to do well shooting like that"

I personally dont think you are struggling with a gun or caliber problem. In your above post and quoted statements lies the problem you are experiencing ie. focusing on the end result and not on the process of shooting, and not giving EVERY shot the required attention it needs.

I do struggle with having my expectations getting in the way of my match performance. I don't think that is all of the issue.

I think this problem is different as when I practice I have the same issue with the .40 as when I shoot a match. I use a drill I learned from Manny Bragg at the start and end of each practice session. I set a target at 10 yards with 2" circles painted on it. I draw and shoot 6 rounds in 5 seconds at at one of the 2" circles. It is rare that I can put all 6 in the 2" with the .40 even if I shut off the timer. With the 9mm, after warming up, I can put all 6 in 2" most of the time, and a lot of the time it looks like one big hole.

I have well over 20k rounds down range on the 9mm and less than 5k with the .40. I think I can spend some more time with the .40 and get better with it and I will do that. Until I can shoot the .40 very close to the 9mm in practice I am going to shoot the 9mm in matches.

[1911aow]

I must admit I have the exact opposite problem

I shoot the .45 single stack a LOT better than the 9mmP! And I know its because I tend to start looking at the target and wanting to "go fast" instead of calling my shots. Giving the major .45 loads the required attention due to the increased recoil and makes me shoot much more accurate and also faster, as I dont waste time filling in shots or trying to look for my shots on the target.

I will get the mind set right in order to make the most of the 9mmP eventually

I am sure you will too.

[waktasz]

What is your .40 major load? I bet that has a lot to do with it.

When I switch back and forth from minor to major I do notice the difference and major can feel violent at times. Once I'm dialed into shooting match after the winter offseason (and shooting a lot of IDPA minor loads because USPSA wimps don't shoot in the cold) I don't notice the recoil being violent at all.

<<major can feel violent at times>>

Yep especialy next to 9mm.

It's a 180g JHP Montana gold over 4.8 of Tightgroup. 168 - 170 PF depending on how hot it is.

What is your .40 minor load?

I shoot 200 gr moly bullets for major and minor. 3.1gr of n320 for minor. 3.7 for major.

[ktm300]

I shoot 200 gr moly bullets for major and minor. 3.1gr of n320 for minor. 3.7 for major.

I will download som .40's and see if that helps me. I bet it does shoot pretty soft with that big heavy bullet and very little powder.

[Aglifter]

Is there something different about the guns which is bothering you, perhaps in addition to the change in recoil?

Maybe change grips/something else so that your mind KNOWS that this gun is not the 9MM. (I tried shooting SD loads out of my SS once - I stopped after two shots, and threw one of those over the plate rack, because I found it so disorienting - I thought I had a double-load, etc.)