diversmith Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Hey all, I am looking to replace Titegroup for use in my Glocks and STI .40 pistols. Have been using Titegroup in 9 & .40 and am looking for the best combo of price, temp sensitivity, soft-shooting-ness, cleanliness and metering. I live in Vegas and we get pretty extreme temp swings (below freezing to 110+). I know 320 is the holy grail but for the volume I am loading on my 650 I want to stay as cheap as possible (it all adds up and I buy in big quantities to max out my savings)! What would you recommend that fits the bill for a 180gr load....I have seen lots of threads with this and that for suggestions but none that exactly spells out how one vs. the other really stacks up in all of my different categories of concern. Price temp sensitivity Soft shooting Cleanliness Metering As far as price goes, I am looking for something that will be in the ballpark of the Titegroup charges (4.8 for major loads) so the cost-per-round stays about the same or less...no powders wanted that require me to bump up over 4.8-5.0 grains and lose any initial savings because a bigger charge is needed. Don't get me wrong...I'm not "unhappy" with TG. It does seem a bit on the dirty side and does show temp swings when I chrony it during different weather....but, I am not really recoil-sensitive and don't really notice much difference in that department. It is priced good and seems to meter well. Thanks for any real-world experience that you can offer me help with and I appreciate your time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdphotoguy Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I've been pleased with VV N320, it's not temperature sensitive, burns clean and feels soft in my 9mm and 40. As for price I have no idea, as I've never priced TG, but 4lbs of N320 costs a tick over $100. BTW, my 9mm Minor PF load with 147gr moly bullets out of a M&P 9L uses 3.5gr. Still working up my final Major PF load for 40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pivoproseem Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I love Solo 1000 ....works for .40 major and 9mm minor. Kind of like N320, but cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diversmith Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 I've been pleased with VV N320, it's not temperature sensitive, burns clean and feels soft in my 9mm and 40. As for price I have no idea, as I've never priced TG, but 4lbs of N320 costs a tick over $100. BTW, my 9mm Minor PF load with 147gr moly bullets out of a M&P 9L uses 3.5gr. Still working up my final Major PF load for 40. I specifically ruled out 320 in my OP due to the "twice-the-price" issue...don't want to almost double my powder cost!!! So far we have Solo 1000 suggested....any issues with temp sensitivity? What charges are you using for 9 & 40??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProGunGuy Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 WST. I've made some major loads with it. 4.8 made major with a 180 lead @ 1.12. No guppie brass out of my Glock either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdphotoguy Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I've been pleased with VV N320, it's not temperature sensitive, burns clean and feels soft in my 9mm and 40. As for price I have no idea, as I've never priced TG, but 4lbs of N320 costs a tick over $100. BTW, my 9mm Minor PF load with 147gr moly bullets out of a M&P 9L uses 3.5gr. Still working up my final Major PF load for 40. I specifically ruled out 320 in my OP due to the "twice-the-price" issue...don't want to almost double my powder cost!!! So far we have Solo 1000 suggested....any issues with temp sensitivity? What charges are you using for 9 & 40??? My bad, long day and my tried eyes missed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalaur Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Big +1 for WST. Cleaner than TG, just as cheap, readily available, versatile (lead, coated, plated, jacketed, 9mm, 40, 45, etc). I use 5.1gr WST behind a 180gr MTG JHP at 1.200, or 4.7gr WST on a 170 LSWC from Missouri at 1.175, or if you want a minor load, 3.7 WST on a 180gr MTG JHP at 1.200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I've been playing with AA#2. It meters like water, and seems as soft as 320, but, I haven't a clue yet as to whether or not it is temp. sensitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjocky Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 solo 1000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biloxi23 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 4.6-4.7 grains of WSF for a Glock 24 with 185 Precision moly's. I was loading 4.9 of WSF withm the 180 grain jacketed out of the G24. I am now shooting a Bar-Sto barreled STI Eagle and load 4.8 of WSF with teh 185 moly's that gives me a PF of 169-171. The WSF meters really well, and seems to be rally sonsistent from shot to shot.m the last time I chrono'd, ten shots were withing plus or minus 10 fps, with three shots were exactly the same velocity. This was at 74 degrees. The shot that were teh samw were not in a row, but all were very close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaster113 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 try 4.7-4.8 grains of Solo 1000 with a 180 grain moly bullet at 1.180 oal; 168+ pf and soft. also very clean. doesnt meter too well (maybe its the powder measure) but overall its a great powder for .40 major. I use Solo 1000 for practice and local matches and save the N320 for majors and also local matches. Going to use Solo in 9mm minor for Production with moly bullets, if USPS would just deliver my damn gun to the dealer already . not a Titegroup fan either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 not sure what your trying to improve on, based on the criteria you have listed TG is the best powder unless you are using alot of moly bullets and having smoke issues, something you didnt mention. WST isnt bad but since you have added a Glock and I am assuming short OAL, I think TG is the best powder out there for the criteria you have listed, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diversmith Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 not sure what your trying to improve on, based on the criteria you have listed TG is the best powder unless you are using alot of moly bullets and having smoke issues, something you didnt mention. WST isnt bad but since you have added a Glock and I am assuming short OAL, I think TG is the best powder out there for the criteria you have listed, Just looking to mainly address the temp sensitive thing being that we deal with extreme temps here in Vegas. Being a little cleaner would be an added plus. I have been using TG in my 9mm minor loads and .40 major. I have also heard of guys with STI guns burning out barrels and losing significant velocity and missing power fact. I have a pretty good amount of TG on hand and I plan on using it still in my 9mm and .40 loads for my Glocks only and using something that addresses my 2 main concerns for my STI loads (Glock barrels are much cheaper than a match STI-type barrel is my reasoning). Thanks for all of the input so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sargenv Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I have heard that Solo 1000 may be reverse temp sensitive.. I'm not sure I've experienced it though.. I've always made PF either at the higher end or lower end of temps (2011 Nationals in 90+ degree heat, 2011 IRC on a rainy 50 degree day). Same load, same bullet, same gun. 3.8 Solo 1000, 185 Cast lead RN, 6.5" 610, Federal #100 primers, mixed 40 S&W brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Try 4756, 6 grains with a 180 lead SWC is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam P. Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I like WST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joefreas Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Try Aliant Power Pistol; it is cheap, burns clean, and has a pretty soft recoil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cy Soto Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Don't get me wrong...I'm not "unhappy" with TG. It does seem a bit on the dirty side and does show temp swings when I chrony it during different weather... You had it right the first time around; keep using Titegroup! There is no doubt that Titegroup may not be the "cleanest" powder around but, then again, we are talking about powder residue in the form of a sooth that is easily cleaned without the need of harsh solvents. By the same token, all powders will show fluctuations in muzzle velocity in the extreme temperature swings that are common in Nevada. If you must insist in trying a different powder, then I will say that you should check Solo 1000 out but be aware, S1000 is reverse temperature sensitive and it also exhibits burn rate variations from one lot to the next. IMO, N320 is absurdly overpriced and though, yes, it is cleaner than TG, it doesn't offer any other benefits that make it worth twice the price of other powders in the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unit30 Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 I also do not like TG. It just seemed too hot and dirty. I recently switched to WST; 180 bayou bullet with 4.7 WST at 1.190. It seems to do ok but the jury is not out yet. I use WST for .45 this past major match with around 285 rounds and it left my pistol very dirty on the inside. I had to scrape caked up carbon off the inside just above the ramp. It also smoked a ton with missouri bullets. I have not seen any smoke at all with the bayou bullets though in .40 cal. By the way, I have been experimenting with Federal small pistol and Win small rifle primers and noticed that the Fed loads are much more consistent on standard deviation. e.g. 6 SD after 6 rounds fired at 4.6 with WST and 5 SD after 6 rounds fired at 4.5 WST! The Winchester loads were 22 and 16 SD, respectively. I will be using Fed primers for major matches for now on. However, I plan on testing WSP primers just to see if those will have the same type of deviations as the rifle primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Mortimer Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) If you want to try something cheap and off the beaten trail, I suggest Green Dot. I only tested 4.9g and 5.0g but was pleased with the results. Soft recoil, clean and meters well. PF was 172 for both. Max load is 5.3g but I would not go above 5.0g and there is no reason to. Not sure about your other factors but it's worth a try. Edited April 12, 2012 by Col. Mortimer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Hunter Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 (edited) How much Titegroup would you have to shoot in a Glock to impair its function? I've never found cleaning a Glock to be a chore even with the worst of powders. When you added cost to your equation, you are likely already shooting the best option. Want to spend more, more choices are available. But for a Glock? Just shoot the darn thing. If your STI gets picky, feed it some different chow. Mine don't seem to care what I feed them and a few mins. and with a rag and a bore snake all is forgotten. Edited April 14, 2012 by Doc Hunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriggerJockey Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Solo 1000 Price: $130 for 8lbs. Temp Sensitivity: Reverse Temp Sensitive, I vary about 3 tenths for 60 degree swing in Virginia Soft Shooting: Very soft, I love how accurate and soft it is, worth the temp sensitivity headache (in my opinion and location) Cleanliness: Pretty clean, burns up quick so just the typical charring left behind Metering: Somewhat flaky but in my 650 with stock measurer it maintains a spread around 22-30fps Tite Group Price: $124 for 8lbs. Temp Sensitivity: Positively correlated with temp (higher temp = higher velocity) about 2 tenths seasonal variation Soft Shooting: Little more snappy than Solo but shouldn't be held against it, it's only noticeable if you shoot a LOT of solo Cleanliness: Just don't put this stuff under lead.... Metering: Meters better than solo, smaller granules "stack" a little tighter in powder measurer leaving less room for gaps between granules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustdevil21 Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I have been loading 4.4 - 4.5gr of Titegroup with 180 Montana gold's and WSP primers. I just test fired a batch of Power Pistol loads that I like, and think I am going to try them for a while. I ended up with 5.7gr of PP, 180gr MG's, and WSP primers loaded at 1.135. Put me at a comfortable 168pf, out of a G24 & Lone Wolf Barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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