Best platform for .22 conversion?

[thrlskr]

I'm in the market for a new pistol to compete in 3gun and Production. The ability to practice with .22 is important to me. What platform has the best (realistic, accurate, reliable) .22 conversion?

[dapribek]

Advantage Arms makes a very reliable conversion for Glocks. My buddy has one and it'll run all day with CCI Minimags. Hope that helps.

[59Bassman]

The CZ Kadet kit has a pretty strong following for CZ shooters. The kits get somewhat spendy, and magazines can be hard to come by.

[chirpy]

I have a Tactical Solutions for my 1911 and they make one for the 2011 also which is the same top end but different mags.

FWIW

Richard

PS: There is no "BEST" anything IMO. It's just what works for you as an individual either with the base gun you have or one you will purchase. Most, if not all require tweaking.

Edited March 26, 2012 by chirpy

[See_Archie_Shoot]

If you are wanting to shoot production, my vote would go to a CZ

[thrlskr]

I'm in the market for a new pistol to compete in 3gun and Production. The ability to practice with .22 is important to me. What platform has the best (realistic, accurate, reliable) .22 conversion?

Advantage Arms makes a very reliable conversion for Glocks. My buddy has one and it'll run all day with CCI Minimags. Hope that helps.

The CZ Kadet kit has a pretty strong following for CZ shooters. The kits get somewhat spendy, and magazines can be hard to come by.

Alright is looks like we have two contenders:

Glock + Advantage Arms vs. CZ + CZ Kadet

_____________________________________________________________________________

Realism: Weight & Balance, Sights, Action

G+ AA: Looks like the advantage arms kit weighs 6.5oz (really light) and only has a 4.2 in barrel, which seems like the weight and balance would be pretty far off from a G17, more-so for a G34 (I think these are probably the best Glocks for 3gun + Production). Otherwise this seems pretty realistic. Action appears to be the same with the slide reciprocating and all. Does anyone find the training less valuable because of the weight difference?

CZ + Kadet: The Kadet kit weighs 16.8oz with 4.7 barrel, this seems much closer (compared to AA)to the 9mm's weight so assume they feel similar. The slide does not reciprocate, but I think the handling characteristics are probably still slight in favor of CZ (because of weight). Thoughts?

Accuracy: POI = POA?, Consistency

I have no idea. In the 9mm platform CZ seems to have an edge in inherent accuracy, but both platforms (in 9mm) are more than accurate enough. Which is most consistent with the parent platform Kadet or AA?

Reliable: Pull trigger go boom? Finicky with ammo?

I know the sample size will be small, but what is the general consensus here on the conversion kits?

Both parent platforms are reliable, but I'd give the edge to Glock in adverse or dusty conditions.

X factor: Total Price (Pistol + conversion + mags + ?)

CZ 75 B (example): $569

Kadet: $391

Mag: $40ea.

Total: $1000

Glock 17/34 (example): $499/$598

Advantage Arms:$294

Mag:$40ea.

Total: $883

The Glock platform is obviously less expensive, is it a better value too?

_________________________________________________________________

I appreciate the help and suggestions so far.

[dsmw5142]

Neither conversion is likely going to be as reliable as it's 9mm counterpart, especially if you're using cheap bulk pack .22 ammo. That said, mine have had very few issues with Remington Golden bullets used 99% of the time.

I have two of the advantage arms kits and they both work great. They come with adjustable sights and can be dialed in for pretty good accuracy. The sights and cut are the same as a Glock so you can change out the sights for what you use on your 9mm top end and make it more like your match gun. One of mine has a Sevigny rear with dawson FO front.

I find them very useful and economical for practicing certain things. They work well for moving and shooting drills, strong hand weak hand etc...

Most anything I use the coversion for is generally from a high-ready type position or moving into positions with gun out of holster. I would not practice drawing from the holster or anything where the weight difference is going to screw you up when you switch back.

[59Bassman]

That's not the CZ I'd choose for Production and 3 gun (well, it's not the one I chose anyway...) The CZ 75B has a firing pin block, and that will limit just how good the trigger can be. You'd have to go with something like a CZ 75 Shadow (which I've been shooting for the past year) to get around the FPB, and then you're looking at $1000 for the base gun.

I've got a conversion for my 1911, and I will tell you that I use the ever loving heck out of it. I wish I had the kadet kit for my CZ, but I've not purchased one yet.

If you can shoot the Glock well, it will be a lower cost overall, with a ton of aftermarket support. I can't shoot one to save my life, but I do shoot the CZ better than any other 9mm I've shot. Either would be a great gun for Production and 3 gun. In 3 gun the Glock does have the abandonment advantage, but I like the CZ trigger better than any Glock I've experienced.

If you can, shoot both. Either will work fine for you.

[thrlskr]

Thanks Mark & Bassman. I'll have to think this over. If anyone else can fill in the blanks that'd be great too.

[SlowShooter]

I don't have any experience with the Glock or Sig conversions, but I have shot and can speak a little bit on the CZ 75/Kadet combo (1k rounds on a friends's gun):

- I've heard some require tinkering to get them to work, which may be a common theme to all .22 conversion units?

- The CZ-75 I shot ran great, I shot around 1k rounds and had no problems other than some bulk ammo that wouldn't ignite (problem with ammo, no the gun). Accuracy was as good as my other dedicated .22 pistols

- last shot hold-open: this is a weakness on alot of other .22 conversions that the slide-stop doesn't hold-open after the last shot. The CZ 75 Kadet I borrowed it _did_ work. Other people say the CZ does not hold open, so I don't know if there is a modification or upgrade to the kit to make it hold-open on last shot, but either way the one I used did work in this regard.

- similarity of function to it's 9mm counterpart: CZ has an unusual quirk that the .22's slide has a stationary rear-sight and the part of the slide that reciprocates is underneath the rear sight (eg like Buckmark or S&W 22A style). So, you cannot just grab it across the top of the slide to rack the slide... your fingers have to find that small section bettween the frame and rear-sight to grab it.

- Other than the "stationary rear sight" cutout on the slide, the CZ's .22 functionality is identical to the 9mm. The magazines are even similar size so they probably will fit in the same mag-pouch.

Edited April 2, 2012 by SlowShooter

[Walküre]

- I've heard some require tinkering to get them to work, which may be a common theme to all .22 conversion units?

Can't speak to others, but the typical fitting that can be required for a Kadet is pretty minor. A few swipes with a small file is about all it takes.

- The CZ-75 I shot ran great, I shot around 1k rounds and had no problems other than some bulk ammo that wouldn't ignite (problem with ammo, no the gun). Accuracy was as good as my other dedicated .22 pistols

If you are running a CZ with a significantly lightened mainspring (as many of us do for getting DA pull weight down for Production), it is highly unlikely to have any success with the Kadet.

I flat-out cannot use my Kadet on my Shadow.

- last shot hold-open: this is a weakness on alot of other .22 conversions that the slide-stop doesn't hold-open after the last shot. The CZ 75 Kadet I borrowed it _did_ work. Other people say the CZ does not hold open, so I don't know if there is a modification or upgrade to the kit to make it hold-open on last shot, but either way the one I used did work in this regard.

The Kadet does hold-open, though not 100% reliably. Mine works more times than not; others have the opposite experience.

The magazines are even similar size so they probably will fit in the same mag-pouch.

The magazines are full size (after all, no frame blocks or anything else), so they work fine in normal mag pouches.

The Kadet itself on the other hand, might not work in your holster. The Kadet upper is slightly different in dimensions when compared to a normal CZ slide. This equates to a Kadet-equipped CZ not always fitting properly in every holster without modification (to the holster).

[DoubleL]

I don't know if this is a no no here, someone please correct me if it is.

CzForum has a pretty good section dedicated to the Kadet Kit and Kadet pistol. I have read that two versions are out there. One newer and easily id'd by part/serial numbering. Some say the newer is less prone to the bolt hold malady among other things. You should check it out, some there have a few Really Sweet customized Kadet Pistols, like full on custom triggers. Lots of info on the fitting and bolt hold open fixes. Some interesting reading on how to obtain the very light trigger pull found on the full size versions too.

[Joe L]

I am a little late to this thread and don't have any experience with the Glock. I do have 6k rounds experience with the CZ75B SAO with a Kadet conversion. I have to use a 17 lb hammer spring, just like I have to run a heavier than needed for centerfire spring in my SIGs. The 17 lb hammer spring heavies up the double action mode more than you might want for production. I shoot IDPA ESP in single action only so the slightly heavy hammer spring is OK.

One real strong point for the CZ is the weight. The 22 slide is all steel and is actually an ounce heavier than the 9mm slide, so the gun weight is very similar to the 9. This is very important to me. Mine also fits the same Safariland holster that I use and the magazines fit the same pouch. The magazines are steel double stack width with a steel insert. All this adds up to an ideal practice gun in 22 for me.

Reliability of the CZ Kadet conversion on my ESP frame has been excellent. Because only the bolt cycles, no feed problems or ejection problems with good ammo.

Can you tell I like the CZ? I hope so.

Joe

[TXMXRACER]

I bought a CZ Kadet pistol for practice and it works great. This is the actual complete Kadet pistol not the conversion. I installed a single action trigger to make it more like my 3-gun SP-01 and couldnt be happier. Now if they would just make mags that held more than 10.

shane

[AzShooter]

I put a TacSol .22 conversion on my Glock 17 and it's been a great combination. Just take off the top end and add the TacSol. I have three 15 rround mags and 2 10 rounders that all work flawlessly.

Just take your time loading the magazines and you will not skip a beat.

[Joe L]

Here is a picture of my CZ that I took last night for the fellow that sells modified Uplulas for the 22 magazines.

Joe

[Stan-O]

I'm very late to this party, but I'll chime in on a few points.

I have a CZ Shadow and first decided to get a Kadet/Kadet2 kit but like Walküre said if you've worked on lightening the trigger pull on the Shadow and the hammer spring got replaced with a lighter one you will have problems with the Kadet kit. It came to a point where even 2-3 strikes on DA would not ignite the rimfire primer. So I ended up with the full Kadet pistol. You still have to have a stiffer springs in the Kadet pistol so it's not like you're practicing with the same gun. Kadet pistol does fit in my Bladetech Shadow holster but I haven't tried running around with it -- just drawing from it.

Before I've got a Shadow I've had a SIG P226 with the SRT. That thing didn't have any problems with the SIG .22 conversion kit, but unlike CZ the slide doesn't lock back on the last .22LR round fired. I know there're magazine followers to sort of keep it open but as far as I understand it's not quite the same thing as locking the slide back. Unlike the Kadet, the whole slide moves on the SIG .22LR kit so you feel a bit more recoil (not sure if that's the realism you wanted), but it's still a .22LR. I can't be 100% sure on that but I think the .22LR slide and the 9mm slide have same dimensions so any P226 holster will work wherever you have a 9mm or .22LR slide on it.

And if you absolutely *must* have the gun with the .22LR conversion buying SIG might be cheaper -- just buy the SIG P226 Classic (in .22LR) and then buy the 9mm conversion kit. Should cost you about as much as if you bought the P226 in 9mm.

[shabodah]

Took my EAA/Tanfoglio with 22 conversion to the range friday. It never missed a beat, and was accurate as could be.

[singleshotcajun]

Took my EAA/Tanfoglio with 22 conversion to the range friday. It never missed a beat, and was accurate as could be.

The lack of a last round hold open kind of got to me when I shot mine.I do wish it would function better with cheaper bulk ammo, it does well with CCI MM. I've had a Ruger 22/45 for a while now and it serves well for a trainer. The Ruger "feels" like many pistols and is completely reliable with any ammo I've feed it. Only hade the 45/22 Witness out once(only had one week) I'll reserve judgement until I hit a couple of bricks through it.

[MarkCO]

For the coin, frustration, and simplicity, I'd just get a .22 rf pistol.

If you get a S&W M&P you can get a M&P .22rf. I just use my 22/45s with trigger jobs.

[Stan-O]

For the coin, frustration, and simplicity, I'd just get a .22 rf pistol.

If you get a S&W M&P you can get a M&P .22rf. I just use my 22/45s with trigger jobs.

AFAIK M&P22 doesn't have customizable backstraps which might be discouraging for some.

[redial]

It doesn't.

It's about the size of the "medium" M&P insert. I shoot the small insert on my centerfire but don't really notice switching between guns. Not a biggee.

Mark

[MikeSLC]

Another kadet user here with #17 mainspring.

[RogerS]

.

[alma]

For the coin, frustration, and simplicity, I'd just get a .22 rf pistol.

If you get a S&W M&P you can get a M&P .22rf. I just use my 22/45s with trigger jobs.

This is almost the exact response is wasted going to give. First, you should consider the M&P which has a nice looking dedicated .22 pistol.

Second, consider that if you want a good .22 then you should get a pistol designed from the ground up to be a .22 instead of the conversions.

One on my clubs started weekly Indoor 22 matched and since I shot Production with a Glock at the time I thought it would be a no brainer to get an advantage arms conversion. Even with good ammo I found it somewhat unreliable and the feel of the trigger and the weight were significantly different than what I was used to with my Glock upper.

I sold it and bought a Browning Buckmark and couldn't be happier with it. Great trigger pull, accurate, and runs great with cheap ammo.

If do see myself getting another 22 like the M&P because I like how they look but since it's so hard to find 22 ammo and since the prices have risen significantly I just plan on practicing with my match gun and standard 9mm load.

Edited March 11, 2014 by alma