Just for those who are interested

[Alan Adamson]

I'm going to step way out on a limb for a minute, but I'm going to do so in

hopes of helping anyone who might be thinking of heading down this path.

For the first year that I shot open (yes, I've only really shot it for a little

over a year - contiguously) I managed to go from C class to A class. In doing

so, I was convinced that I still wanted to maintain an index while shooting open

that was transferable to my iron sights guns - SS and Limited.

As a result, I went with a 90 degree Cheely mount on my primary open gun along

with a Cmore. As I've progressed along, I found 2 things that I didn't like

with that setup as my skills improved. A) the dot would *never* track straight

up and down, it would always have a *bow* in the middle of the track. I finally

figured out why. The hinge on a Cmore is designed to flex with the recoil, when

you tip one on it's side you put that hinge at 90 degrees to the recoil and as a

result the scope lens *twists* as the entire mount and scope flex in recoil.

(watch some of the high speed videos if you wanna see just how much the *MOUNT*

moves). I found that I was shooting everything from left to right, the

reason, I was using my strong eye to pick up the next target, this was due to

the mass from the 90 degree cmore setting and blocking some of the vision on the

left of the gun.... *Most* people when they transition, will use their weak eye

(I know this sounds backwards, but it's been proven) to pick up *the next

thing*, with me and my sight being right eye dominant, I had a bunch of scope in

the way and so I wasn't doing that.

Those 2 things I found were holding me back... Sooooo.... late last fall I

started to play with scopes and mount setups. I wanted to see if I could find a compromise that

would allow "the perfect world". As a result, and after talking with BJ Norris,

I wandered down the blasphemes path of putting an Aimpoint H1 Microdot on my

open gun. In the beginning I was hooked, it was amazingly clear, small, had no

mass on the left of the gun and the dot to bore delta was very similar to what I

had with a 90 degree Cmore.

I shot this setup until about a month ago... So call it about 4 months worth,

this was in 2 weekly matches a week, and 3 monthly matches a month, so I shot it quite a bit.

HOWEVER, and here is the rub. After shooting that setup for all that time,

really wanting and trying to make it be perfect, I found that I was loosing

confidence in my index. I was struggling with picking up the dot due to such a

small tube on the Aimpoint. I was dry firing 3 times a week, working on

transitions and it still never really got perfect. All due to the small tube on

the H1. I even talked to a few others who went down this path, each

experiencing the *exact* same end result, and all ultimately coming back to an

over the top setup and 80% of that group coming back to an Cmore.

So even with the season about to start, a month ago I took my 3rd open gun and I

put a regular over the top mount on it and a Cmore. I then shot it in a local

weekly match the following day. It was NIGHT AND DAY, I never lost the dot

once, and I noticed my confidence in the scope and my abilities were starting to

make a change. My times started to decrease, and I was having fun again... It

literally was that quick to change.

I know that this is a very individual sport, and everyone should try what they

want, but in the end for me.... I'm going back to an over the top Cmore.... I

may look at an RTS just for kicks and giggles, but I have to go by my recent

performances.... I have always struggled to try to catch a certain local shooter

... And while I can't do it consistently, I'm probably

50-60% better today after switching than I was trying to shoot either the

sideways Cmore or the Aimpoint. Now remember, I just went to this new (to me)

approach for the last 30 days.

I still struggle with strong hand/weak hand dot pickup, but that will come with

some more dry fire with this setup. Having 20% more scope with the Cmore can

only help vs. the Aimpoint, which I was much worse with on strong/weak hand

performance.

I'm not saying the Cmore is perfect, sure I wish it would hold Zero like the

Aimpoint, and I wish the dot were as crisp, but there simply is nothing better

than more glass to help with dot pickup. (note, the RTS looks promising to remedy both concerns)

My only regret at this point is that I wish I'd have arrived at this point,

about 3 months earlier. I knew I wasn't going to shoot my best match at the AL

Sectional. But you know what... There are three

things that are important to keep in balance. Learning, Practice, and

Enjoyment... Focus on any one more than the others and you'll suffer... I kept

ignoring what my eyes and times were telling me when shooting with the Aimpoint.

And right now I'll take my finish at the AL match and be happy with it.

I know what I did right, and I know what I did wrong, and how to correct

those, but I'd have done a whole bunch worse had I not made this change....

So I hope this may help someone who is thinking of wandering down this path...

It gets discussed all the time.

Happy to take any feedback, or comments...

Alan

[RH45]

Hmm, I guess I'm not the only one that seems to do better with a conventional mount.

If you haven't tried an OKO, even though they are pretty expensive now, they have a bigger window, a brighter, and more defined dot than a C-More. I've also never had one change zero, like they have on my C-mores.

[gng4life]

Alan, thanks for excellent write-up and sharing your experience.

I have a few questions:

1) Have you went out and shot a match with irons yet? If so, did you have problems with picking up the front sight?

2) Do you think the improvement was due to the "excitement" factor? What I mean here is as humans, we usually get excited about something new to us or change of pace, could this explain the paths you've been to? Have you thought about going back to a 90 degree mount later to see if you still have the same conclusion?

As a CWP holder, my first priority is to pick up my irons first and the 90 degree mount does that for me. I just bought the wife an Open Glock with an upright Cmore and when I tried to bring it up on target, I had a hard time. Again after playing around for an hour or so, I was getting the hang of it but when I picked up my irons, had a hard time again.

I know if you want to excel at this, you have to put in a ton of time, dedication, and picking the right equipment for your style. For me, I don't think I will go back to the upright mounts but you lay out a convincing argument. I may have to try it out for a month or two

Again, thanks for your time!

BTW, how did you do in the AL Sectional?

[Hi-Power Jack]

I'm not saying the Cmore is perfect, sure I wish it would hold Zero like the

Aimpoint,

Alan, this has been discussed here before - the C-More does

hold it's zero very well.

Mine used to wander all the time, until I tightened some screws

(my problem was the grip screws). Little loctite...

For two years, the zero hasn't changed )

[Alan Adamson]

Alan, thanks for excellent write-up and sharing your experience.

I have a few questions:

1) Have you went out and shot a match with irons yet? If so, did you have problems with picking up the front sight?

2) Do you think the improvement was due to the "excitement" factor? What I mean here is as humans, we usually get excited about something new to us or change of pace, could this explain the paths you've been to? Have you thought about going back to a 90 degree mount later to see if you still have the same conclusion?

As a CWP holder, my first priority is to pick up my irons first and the 90 degree mount does that for me. I just bought the wife an Open Glock with an upright Cmore and when I tried to bring it up on target, I had a hard time. Again after playing around for an hour or so, I was getting the hang of it but when I picked up my irons, had a hard time again.

I know if you want to excel at this, you have to put in a ton of time, dedication, and picking the right equipment for your style. For me, I don't think I will go back to the upright mounts but you lay out a convincing argument. I may have to try it out for a month or two

Again, thanks for your time!

BTW, how did you do in the AL Sectional?

To 1) I have and had no problems with a quick transitions, what I find is that going to irons, there is more visual information, that is quicker to pick up than trying to find a dot there isn't where you want it.

To 2) yes to some extent the MicroDot was some *wow* factor, but it was quickly challenged with why are my transitions taking longer, why do I feel like I'm having to *hurry* that first shot when I really don't have a good sight picture, etc. Those were observations that I made *after* I'd got to the Aimpoint, and had the Wow factor experience.

I'll never got back to the 90 degree mount... Because of my 2 primary issues. The dot *can't* track correctly due to the hinge on the Cmore being at 90 degrees to the recoil, there is always going to be some waver/figure 8/bow to the track, you might not see, you might not care, but mechanically it *has* to be there. And I don't want to got back to the liability of only being able to comfortably shoot transitions from one way (left to right) due to the mass of the scope on the left side of the gun (and me being right handed).

I wish I could convey how much better I feel and shoot having now gone to an over the top mount and back to a Cmore.

Now, on the RTS topic, it's a smidge smaller than the standard Cmore, but even with it's need for a picatinny rail, it still sets about 1/4-3/8" lower than a standard Cmore, the body is aluminum, and it's *wicked bright and precise*.... I've not shot behind it, but but it sure feels good in some Q/D trials ..

As for AL Sectional... I had some really good stages, one really dumb mental mistake on one and a couple of *OK* stages. I know I could do better, but I certainly could have done lots worse. As I get more experience behind the glass of the Cmore and the over the top mount, I'm very confident that my scores will improve dramatically.

For me this experience has been NIGHT and DAY, and the proof of that is in comments from my friends who saw me shoot through the transition before, during and after.

Hope that helps,

Alan

[Alan Adamson]

I'm not saying the Cmore is perfect, sure I wish it would hold Zero like the

Aimpoint,

Alan, this has been discussed here before - the C-More does

hold it's zero very well.

Mine used to wander all the time, until I tightened some screws

(my problem was the grip screws). Little loctite...

For two years, the zero hasn't changed )

I really didn't mean to be that harsh.... I have 2 setups that have had no problems with holding zero (within reason)... I do find some *creep* from really cold to really warm and yes, the one time that I had a gross change it was because I left one of the screws loose from a prior zero session. I actually think that maybe an Aluminum body Cmore or an RTS will solve any *creep* issues that I might have... We'll see, for now, I'm just so enjoying shooting open again, and there was a time of lots of frustration until I finally just bit the bullet and did what I should have done from the beginning.... an over the top mount with a Cmore on it.

[eric nielsen]

Good thread, thanks Alan.

Have you had the chance to try a the Aimpoint Comp? The glass is bigger than C-More and the 7moa and 10moa dots are big, round, and obvious. But the scope+mount is usually 3-4 ounces more than C-More. Hard to find a new one w/dot bigger than 3moa.

My experience with them is that they minimize the practice you need to find your index, are 10x easier to shoot one handed, better on very close target/no-shoot combos, but are a little slower on transitions than a straight-up C-More. In general the transitions get tougher as you mount the tube further back, but the Comp tube is shorter than a sideways C-More.

[gdboytyler]

….As a result, and after talking with BJ Norris,

I wandered down the blasphemes path of putting an Aimpoint H1 Microdot on my

open gun. In the beginning I was hooked, it was amazingly clear, small, had no

mass on the left of the gun and the dot to bore delta was very similar to what I

had with a 90 degree Cmore.

I shot this setup until about a month ago... So call it about 4 months worth,

this was in 2 weekly matches a week, and 3 monthly matches a month, so I shot it quite a bit.

HOWEVER, and here is the rub. After shooting that setup for all that time,

really wanting and trying to make it be perfect, I found that I was loosing

confidence in my index. I was struggling with picking up the dot due to such a

small tube on the Aimpoint. I was dry firing 3 times a week, working on

transitions and it still never really got perfect. All due to the small tube on

the H1. I even talked to a few others who went down this path, each

experiencing the *exact* same end result, and all ultimately coming back to an

over the top setup and 80% of that group coming back to an Cmore….

Best review I've read so far on the Aimpoint Micro.

I put the Aimpoint Micro R1 on my TacSol 22 conversion kit and mounted it above the ejection port. I immediately had problems losing the dot on my draw. I hardly ever lost the dot on my Tasco. The small lens on the Aimpoint made the fudge factor much smaller; my draw had to be almost perfect or I'd lose the dot.

My TacSol upper has a rib, so I was able to move the Aimpoint about 1.5" further back, where the rear lens was almost above the rear iron sight. Moving the Aimpoint further back solved my problem with losing the dot. However, none of the Aimpoint frame mounts that I've seen will allow the sight to be positioned that far back.

Because I haven't found any Aimpoint mounts to position it at the rear (except for slide mounts), I'll probably switch from the old school Tasco to either a C-More or maybe Leupold Deltapoint.

Alan, where did you mount your Aimpoint? Did you try different positions for the Aimpoint?

Good thread, thanks Alan.

… In general the transitions get tougher as you mount the tube further back, but the Comp tube is shorter than a sideways C-More.

Any theories on why that happens?

[CocoBolo]

I guess the sidemores work good for me because I am right handed and left eye dominant.

For those of us that can't seem to master the upright mount, and I did really try, six moths of doing the C-more shuffle, the sidemore makes it possible to play the game in Open Division and enjoy it.

I don't dispute the theory that the C-More does a little side wiggle, but those same forces cause an up wiggle on an upright. Being just a lowly B I probably don't shoot fast enough that it matters. I have found that if I push the speed that most of my second shots will hit just right of the A-Zone, this could be that side wiggle, however if I had the up wiggle they might have just gone over the top.

I'm 3 years into the sidemores, and with little time to dry fire, no chance for range practice, I think I'll stick with it. I do like the advantage on those head shots, on a stage with lots of head shots I rock, the uprights well they shoot a lot of extra shots or some over the top. Weak hand strong hand it is there.

I've always said if you have an upright and you mastered it stick with it. I don't think that the sidemore gives a great advantage going from Open to Irons, because you still have a tendency to look over rather than thru the sights, you notice this in hits that are 4 to 5" high on the target.

I also think that the level of "softness" of the gun, allows the sidemore to be used, my favorite gun shoots so soft the dot stays in the A-Zone. Shooting my gun tuned for minor with major, which hits hard, well you can see the side wiggle then.

My chief complaint against the C-More is its lack of "purportional" adjustment, when you turn the screw an 1/8 round you can get a 1/4" or a foot. My second complaint was the dot is not very bright on a sunny day. Well that dim dot thing is over I got my Cataracts out and it is like a spot light now, I have to turn it way down. Before it was all the way up all the time.

Thanks for sharing your expierence, it is something to think about, however, for me I think the best compromise is the side more since I have 4 of them.

It is as you know possble to lose the dot with any mount when you short arm the gun.

[mitchiepinoy]

I guess the sidemores work good for me because I am right handed and left eye dominant.

For those of us that can't seem to master the upright mount, and I did really try, six moths of doing the C-more shuffle, the sidemore makes it possible to play the game in Open Division and enjoy it.

I don't dispute the theory that the C-More does a little side wiggle, but those same forces cause an up wiggle on an upright. Being just a lowly B I probably don't shoot fast enough that it matters. I have found that if I push the speed that most of my second shots will hit just right of the A-Zone, this could be that side wiggle, however if I had the up wiggle they might have just gone over the top.

I'm 3 years into the sidemores, and with little time to dry fire, no chance for range practice, I think I'll stick with it. I do like the advantage on those head shots, on a stage with lots of head shots I rock, the uprights well they shoot a lot of extra shots or some over the top. Weak hand strong hand it is there.

I've always said if you have an upright and you mastered it stick with it. I don't think that the sidemore gives a great advantage going from Open to Irons, because you still have a tendency to look over rather than thru the sights, you notice this in hits that are 4 to 5" high on the target.

I also think that the level of "softness" of the gun, allows the sidemore to be used, my favorite gun shoots so soft the dot stays in the A-Zone. Shooting my gun tuned for minor with major, which hits hard, well you can see the side wiggle then.

My chief complaint against the C-More is its lack of "purportional" adjustment, when you turn the screw an 1/8 round you can get a 1/4" or a foot. My second complaint was the dot is not very bright on a sunny day. Well that dim dot thing is over I got my Cataracts out and it is like a spot light now, I have to turn it way down. Before it was all the way up all the time.

Thanks for sharing your expierence, it is something to think about, however, for me I think the best compromise is the side more since I have 4 of them.

It is as you know possble to lose the dot with any mount when you short arm the gun.

I agree with that... I shoot my friends upright mount and it takes me 3 shots to hit the A-HEAD and weird shooting the steel in close distance... Cant wait to have my new open gun with 90deg mount ... But the most important is... Whenever 90deg or upright if you getting used to it... Then stick with it...

[Alan Adamson]

Let me take a shot at debunking this upright vs 90 degree advantage on headshots.

So bear with me for a minute.

The *delta* that you are talking about is due to the fact that the *dot* (not the scope) is above the bore. It's above the bore in both installation, in the 90 degree, it's approx .75 inches above the bore, in the upright Cmore, it's approx 1.5" above the bore.

This means that if you were to place a target at the muzzle, and shoot both guns, from where you placed dot to where the bullet hits would be .75 inches low in the 90 degree and 1.5 inches low in the upright.

So, at a 20 yard zero, the 2 will hit the same place and anything between the zero and the muzzle, the delta between the dot and the hit will diverge.

Ok, so let me see, target placed at the muzzle.. a 1.5 inch delta with the upright, that means if you held center A on the head, the bullet would strike the target and just outside the A/B line, most likely still scoring an A... my dimensions might be off a little. I don't have a target setting right here with a ruler. Second, *any* distance away from the muzzle and that delta will narrow, at 10 yards it would be approx half, at 5 yards it would be approx 75%. A head only shot at 5-10 yards would mean a bore to dot offset of approx .75" on the upright and approx .375" on the 90 degree. The difference between upright and 90 degree being around the width of the bullet that most of us shoot.

In the grand scheme of things and for 90% of all of the shots, this offset discussion is simply that a nice discussion, but in practical terms it really means nothing... Now, if you are simply a *brown paper* target shooter, then yeah, it may mean something, but if you working to keep your accuracy and speed up, and you are indeed aiming before you mash the trigger, I doubt for most of us it really accounts for anything.

Bottom line, I wouldn't get wrapped up around the bore to scope offset issue. And as I already mentioned, I agree 100%, shoot what you like, I simply offered a perspective from someone who has tried *the holy grail* and it didn't offer much improvement, and in my case, it was a *beginners* crutch that I wish I had avoided.

Ok, before I leave this topic.... In the process of converting all my open guns back to over the top setups, I found a 3rd issue with the 90 degree mounts. But before I go there, for those of you that *have to have* 90 degrees for ejection issues.... My recommendation, get a competent gunsmith to tune your ejector/extractor correctly, so you don't need a 90 degree mount, your reliability will greatly improve as the gun should be ejecting as it was designed.

Ok, back to #3.... If you aren't running some kinda of dot module hood with a 90 degree mount, I would *highly* recommend one.... Not for the claimed advantage, but to protect your dot module. I pulled a scope off a gun with a 90 degree mount, that had about 3000 rounds thought it, and in the process I pulled the hood off my module to get to the screw. I looked at my fingers and I couldn't believe how much residue was on the module from the breech face blast coming up. Had that just been a module exposed there, I'm sure it would be starting to show wear/melt, and I'm 100% sure that the module peep hole would be partial blocked. One other friend of mine continues to eat modules and I'm starting to think it's because of his 90 degree mount. He's not running any form of hood.

So file that one away as needed, but I'd sure get one if it were me.... In my case, both of my 90's had hoods

Alan

Edited March 26, 2012 by Alan Adamson

[9X23Guy]

Alan, have you given any thought to shooting a frame mounted delta point? I'd really like to take this plunge myself. I'm currently shooting an upright cmore. The set up I'm talking about is the same setup Jessie Harrison runs on her open gun. Delta points are a bit bigger than similar size optics and seem to be up to the task durability wise.

[Alan Adamson]

Alan, have you given any thought to shooting a frame mounted delta point? I'd really like to take this plunge myself. I'm currently shooting an upright cmore. The set up I'm talking about is the same setup Jessie Harrison runs on her open gun. Delta points are a bit bigger than similar size optics and seem to be up to the task durability wise.

I haven't... I do have a delta point as well and a mount that fits it just fine, but again, it's vertical size is pretty similar to the aimpoint in dimensions of glass and it just gets to be a hassle trying to perfect the index such that you can always find it. Also, this is going to allow the dot to travel outside the glass on recoil due to the vertical dimension being 20-30% smaller than the Cmore's. It does set in similar height to the Aimpoint dot however, which is why I wanted to look at it.

I've talked to 3 other open gun shooters who did try the delta (note, none of them tried the triangle version - all tried the regular round dot version)... While the glass is extremely clear, it's still a glass size issue that I just don't think will be of any advantage.... At least for me and my shooting...

Remember, speed is dictated by how quickly your eye can acquire the *target* - let's not forget that is job #1 when shooting open, and secondarily, NOT THE DOT per-se, but where the dot is on the target, such that when you break the shoot you break it, know where you broke it and it scores an Alpha hit....

The *MORE* surrounding information available during this acquisition, the better. This means the *more* glass, the better/faster

[ChrisMcCracken]

Just to complicate the issue, has anyone ever tried to mount a cmore upside down? Go for a low dot, big glass, no zero change, no bulky obstruction to the left.

[XRe]

Interesting write up, Alan. I hadn't yet tried an Aimpoint Micro on my open gun (I own one, but it's doing time on my rifle ).

You're right about the hinge on the C-More potentially causing part of the issue with tracking, but keep in mind, too, that a sideways mounted C-More also has some extra weight over the left side of the gun. When the recoil cycle begins, that lopsidedness is going to contribute to the dot tracking off-center. In theory, learning the timing of the gun should help correct that, but I've not shot one yet where I could really do it. Normally, I can "get" a gun within a few rounds, but that hasn't been the case with a sideways mount.

I keep telling people that switching between irons and a C-More shouldn't be an issue if they have solid fundamentals, and that the offset "thing" isn't a big deal in practice, but...

I, too, lament the C-More's shortcomings (heck, just look at my blog articles on the scope), but, for me, it's the best option out there right now...

[BlueOvalBruin]

I just had an upright mount put on my SV IMM for the same reasons as you stated. I just didn’t like how the dot moved and every gun I tried with a side mounted cmore had a weird wiggle to the dot motion. None went straight up and down as they did on the uprights I’ve shot. I’m still new to open and won’t know for a while if I made the right choice but I figured I would give it a shot. The way that IMM spits brass out I doubt I’ll have any issue with ejection. A nice little benefit is I can also use a *thumb rest [generic]* now which I couldn’t before due to my hand size.

[Alan Adamson]

Oh, now don't get me started on thumb rests.... Been there done that, removed it and never looked back... Again it was an "Oh wow, this really works"... Then immediately after I removed it, the gun just felt so much better. It's a personal thing I'm sure and every once in a while I think about going back to one...

But I keep hearing this little voice in my head that says..... "Just shoot the crap outa what ya brung".... I sometimes set back and think... . If I got from C to A class in open in just a little less than a year (non-contiguous as I shot SS and took about 6 mo off due to work issues). Then I wonder what I would have done had I *not* decided to experiment and just stayed with the tried and true.... After all, most all the GM's that I know don't shoot with a thumb rest and use an upright Cmore.... Could it be they more than me.... Nah!

Alan

[Alan Adamson]

Interesting write up, Alan. I hadn't yet tried an Aimpoint Micro on my open gun (I own one, but it's doing time on my rifle ).

You're right about the hinge on the C-More potentially causing part of the issue with tracking, but keep in mind, too, that a sideways mounted C-More also has some extra weight over the left side of the gun. When the recoil cycle begins, that lopsidedness is going to contribute to the dot tracking off-center. In theory, learning the timing of the gun should help correct that, but I've not shot one yet where I could really do it. Normally, I can "get" a gun within a few rounds, but that hasn't been the case with a sideways mount.

I keep telling people that switching between irons and a C-More shouldn't be an issue if they have solid fundamentals, and that the offset "thing" isn't a big deal in practice, but...

I, too, lament the C-More's shortcomings (heck, just look at my blog articles on the scope), but, for me, it's the best option out there right now...

Thanks Dave, as you know I hang on your every word ... Always a pleasure to read your posts, blog, FB, etc... I just think for me, for now, I'm shooting much more comfortable, with lots more confidence since I switched from all the gimicks (my way of referencing difference from the top shooter norm). I've really only been doing it for about a month, so with the season in full gear, I'm having to prove myself in the heat of battle. However, when (and I full expect it will) it all comes together. I'm hoping for one of those aha experiences that just kicks you in the butt and puts you to that next level. Not saying I don't expect to work for it, just saying I think it's going to be easier to get there with my current setup than my old setup(s).

if ya wanna try an Aimpoint on an open gun, I have 2 mounts that will bolt right up... but I'll bet you'll love the crispness of the dot (4 moa is pretty awesome when you look at the Aimpoint), but you won't like the little tube....

Alan

Edited March 26, 2012 by Alan Adamson

[Neomet]

I'll parallel Alan's experiences. I've tried every optic out there other than the RTS in every configuration other than upside down and in spite of my love of several features of the other optics (deltapoint glass, micro dot brightness) I continue to come back to the Cmore in the traditional position. I am sure once a RTS mount comes out that tickles my fancy I will give that a try as well. On paper it has everything I look for and while I could do without the weaver mount that probably isn't a deal breaker.

[gdboytyler]

<br />I'll parallel Alan's experiences.  I've tried every optic out there other than the RTS in every configuration other than upside down and in spite of my love of several features of the other optics (deltapoint glass, micro dot brightness) I continue to come back to the Cmore in the traditional position.  I am sure once a RTS mount comes out that tickles my fancy I will give that a try as well.  On paper it has everything I look for and while I could do without the weaver mount that probably isn't a deal breaker.<br />

Have you tried the Deltapoint mounted directly to the slide? From my various forum searches, the DP can handle getting slide mounted. Theoretically, the further back the DP gets mounted, the bigger the lens will appear.

Limcat is now selling a RTS mount, $145.

[Neomet]

<br />I'll parallel Alan's experiences.  I've tried every optic out there other than the RTS in every configuration other than upside down and in spite of my love of several features of the other optics (deltapoint glass, micro dot brightness) I continue to come back to the Cmore in the traditional position.  I am sure once a RTS mount comes out that tickles my fancy I will give that a try as well.  On paper it has everything I look for and while I could do without the weaver mount that probably isn't a deal breaker.<br />

Have you tried the Deltapoint mounted directly to the slide? From my various forum searches, the DP can handle getting slide mounted. Theoretically, the further back the DP gets mounted, the bigger the lens will appear.

Limcat is now selling a RTS mount, $145.

Just not a fan of slide mount optics. I do agree the closer the lens gets to you the larger it will appear to be though. I saw Limcat's. I am going to wait for Matt to finish the one he is working on now though.

[gng4life]

Just not a fan of slide mount optics. I do agree the closer the lens gets to you the larger it will appear to be though. I saw Limcat's. I am going to wait for Matt to finish the one he is working on now though.

What is Matt working on? Thanks

[Neomet]

Just not a fan of slide mount optics. I do agree the closer the lens gets to you the larger it will appear to be though. I saw Limcat's. I am going to wait for Matt to finish the one he is working on now though.

What is Matt working on? Thanks

Mount for an RTS.

[XRe]

Thanks Dave, as you know I hang on your every word

Dude, if that's the case... you might need to get a life

... Always a pleasure to read your posts, blog, FB, etc...

I just think for me, for now, I'm shooting much more comfortable, with lots more confidence since I switched from all the gimicks (my way of referencing difference from the top shooter norm). I've really only been doing it for about a month, so with the season in full gear, I'm having to prove myself in the heat of battle. However, when (and I full expect it will) it all comes together. I'm hoping for one of those aha experiences that just kicks you in the butt and puts you to that next level. Not saying I don't expect to work for it, just saying I think it's going to be easier to get there with my current setup than my old setup(s).

I think you're right - I don't know about having a revelatory experience or anything, but I wouldn't be surprised if you have at least some incremental improvement in your scores.

if ya wanna try an Aimpoint on an open gun, I have 2 mounts that will bolt right up... but I'll bet you'll love the crispness of the dot (4 moa is pretty awesome when you look at the Aimpoint), but you won't like the little tube....

Oh, I love the dot in my Aimpoint Micro - but, for me, it's far too small for pistol. I measured mine, too - it's actually closer to 3 MOA than 4. That couple with the small tube... I don't know. I know BJ swears by it, but I remain pretty skeptical. Besides, to use what appears to be the best mount out there (seems like the DAA is the heat), I have to drill holes through the "Pro Sx" logo on my frame The other thing I love is definite adjustments - sighting the Aimpoint in is a couple orders of magnitude easier than the C-More. It's a shame our market is regarded as so small that no one wants to spend cash on optics development for Open guns...

[Eric_Vmax]

I'm going to step way out on a limb for a minute, but I'm going to do so in

hopes of helping anyone who might be thinking of heading down this path.

...

Happy to take any feedback, or comments...

Alan

Alan, thanks! This helps me with any ideas I had about switching. I will try and test someone elses gun with this before changing mine but odds are, I will stay with my corrent configuration. I am a high C class looking for ideas to break into B class, but since I do not practice that much, I figure that is my first starting point.