sperman Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I'm curious if USPSA has any guidelines on allowing clubs to hold matches on the same day as another club in the area. I just took over as match director for a club that has run a USPSA match on the 2nd Saturday for the last 12 years. There is a club about 20 miles up the road, which is about to hold it's first USPSA match, and has decided to hold it's match on the 2nd Saturday. This seems like a loosing proposition for that club, but it will have a negative impact on my match as well. I contacted both the SC and AD and recieved no response. It seems like it would be in the best interest of everyone involved (from the local shooters all the way up to USPSA) if these two matches supported each others' efforts instead of competed with each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I agree with you. The SC should be all over this. It seems around here MD's all know each other and go to great pains to not step on each others toes. Like you said that works out great for us shooters when we have more matches to choose from that are on DIFFERENT days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEH Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 may be the only day they can get the range,,????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atbarr Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I contacted both the SC and AD and recieved no response. This really bothers me! They are elected to serve us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) I'm curious if USPSA has any guidelines on allowing clubs to hold matches on the same day as another club in the area. I just took over as match director for a club that has run a USPSA match on the 2nd Saturday for the last 12 years. There is a club about 20 miles up the road, which is about to hold it's first USPSA match, and has decided to hold it's match on the 2nd Saturday. This seems like a loosing proposition for that club, but it will have a negative impact on my match as well. I contacted both the SC and AD areceivedved no response. It seems like it would be in the best interest of everyone involved (from the local shooters all the way up to USPSA) if these two matches supported each others' efforts instead of competed with each other. These things are often covered in the section by-laws, such as no conflicting matches within a certain mileage. Unfortunately there is nothing anyone can really do if that other club insist on running those matches. Asked another way, what can the SC or AD do to stop them from running their match? Edited January 19, 2012 by Gary Stevens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 A reply to my e-mail stating "There is nothing we can do" would be a big step in the right direction. I would think they could at least talk to the parties involved to see if there was a solution that would work for both clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 A reply to my e-mail stating "There is nothing we can do" would be a big step in the right direction. I would think they could at least talk to the parties involved to see if there was a solution that would work for both clubs. If you had only moved to Area 5.....oh wait too late:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atbarr Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 If you had only moved to Area 5.....oh wait too late:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff9mmM&P Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Just a suggestion: As a new club contact for USPSA I have experienced the same thing. I have open communication with other surrounding area USPSA clubs so we don't step on each others schedules. The last thing I want is my attendance/income to drop at my matches so I do my best to work things out with the other club contacts. I attend their matches and they reciprocate by attending and helping at mine. Hopefully you can establish the same relationship with the new club by you. It is quite possible they cannot change the date due to other range activities. Even though you are the more "senior club", maybe your range schedule will permit a weekend match date change? Good luck, Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 A reply to my e-mail stating "There is nothing we can do" would be a big step in the right direction. I would think they could at least talk to the parties involved to see if there was a solution that would work for both clubs. If you had only moved to Area 5.....oh wait too late:) Isn't most of Area 5 north of the Mason-Dixon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 A reply to my e-mail stating "There is nothing we can do" would be a big step in the right direction. I would think they could at least talk to the parties involved to see if there was a solution that would work for both clubs. If you had only moved to Area 5.....oh wait too late:) Isn't most of Area 5 north of the Mason-Dixon? Parts of some states. I'll note though that Kentucky is completely South of it:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I'm curious if USPSA has any guidelines on allowing clubs to hold matches on the same day as another club in the area. I just took over as match director for a club that has run a USPSA match on the 2nd Saturday for the last 12 years. There is a club about 20 miles up the road, which is about to hold it's first USPSA match, and has decided to hold it's match on the 2nd Saturday. This seems like a loosing proposition for that club, but it will have a negative impact on my match as well. I contacted both the SC and AD and recieved no response. It seems like it would be in the best interest of everyone involved (from the local shooters all the way up to USPSA) if these two matches supported each others' efforts instead of competed with each other. Probably a dumb question, but did you contact their MD and ask why they were doing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Isn't most of Area 5 north of the Mason-Dixon? Parts of some states. I'll note though that Kentucky is completely proudly South of it:) I would hope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Just a suggestion: As a new club contact for USPSA I have experienced the same thing. I have open communication with other surrounding area USPSA clubs so we don't step on each others schedules. The last thing I want is my attendance/income to drop at my matches so I do my best to work things out with the other club contacts. I attend their matches and they reciprocate by attending and helping at mine. Hopefully you can establish the same relationship with the new club by you. It is quite possible they cannot change the date due to other range activities. Even though you are the more "senior club", maybe your range schedule will permit a weekend match date change? Good luck, Jeff Jeff speaks wisely..... Which is more important: To resolve the conflict, to have someone else do it, or to stick with your historic match date? (And believe, I can imagine every reason under the sun to want to keep that. Your attendance will most likely change with a shift to a different day....) Define your problem, then solve it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 There are existing matches at our club on every weekend, so changing dates isn't an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reshoot Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 That is a most unfortunate development, and I have to wonder what the other range was thinking! Are they deliberately trying to pull contestants away from your range, or just uninformed. Send in a spy! Or, better yet, make contact and talk it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillD Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 That is a most unfortunate development, and I have to wonder what the other range was thinking! Are they deliberately trying to pull contestants away from your range, or just uninformed. Send in a spy! Or, better yet, make contact and talk it out. I've seen it happen locally. It was plain stubbornness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atbarr Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I've seen it happen locally. It was plain stubbornness. No, that's plain stupid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegot38 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 When we restarted USPSA at our club last year we painfully went through all of the USPSA and IDPA matches within 75 miles of us to try to not sit our match on top of anyone elses. That is why we ended up selecting a particular day. We wanted to avoid conflict as the new/returning club. We do conflict with a club in North Jersey (about 90 miles) but we just could not get a complete non-conflict day. Our goal was and still is to not only attract USPSA shooters and new shooters but to get IDPA shooters involved also. Our first match had 90+ shooters which even with our new ranges blew us away. We are still learning. We have settled in between 60-65 as not many of the IDPA guys have come out....yet. I suggest you spaek with the other MD to try to resolve the issue. He may not have had an alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 A really dumb question here, but is there a history of animosity between the clubs, or between the MD of the new club and your club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 When we restarted USPSA at our club last year we painfully went through all of the USPSA and IDPA matches within 75 miles of us to try to not sit our match on top of anyone elses. That is why we ended up selecting a particular day. We wanted to avoid conflict as the new/returning club. We do conflict with a club in North Jersey (about 90 miles) but we just could not get a complete non-conflict day. Our goal was and still is to not only attract USPSA shooters and new shooters but to get IDPA shooters involved also. Our first match had 90+ shooters which even with our new ranges blew us away. We are still learning. We have settled in between 60-65 as not many of the IDPA guys have come out....yet. I suggest you spaek with the other MD to try to resolve the issue. He may not have had an alternative. Mike's club is in the Mid-Atlantic Section -- realistically the two clubs he is referencing are an easy 2-2.5 hour drive apart in an area that's not hurting for competitors.... I think it's a non-issue, due to distance, as is the conflict between Central Jersey and York -- where again the clubs are separated by an easy 2.5 hours.... 20 miles/minutes seems too close. Maybe there's a compromise -- I'm even thinking about two dual session matches on the same day, with competitors shooting both in tournament fashion? Start a conversation..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Asked another way, what can the SC or AD do to stop them from running their match? Not sign the approval... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 20 miles/minutes seems too close. Maybe there's a compromise -- I'm even thinking about two dual session matches on the same day, with competitors shooting both in tournament fashion? Start a conversation..... Considering the recent winter Olympics that had 3 venues spread out over a hundred miles, this is quite feasible. That maybe a way to get 8-12 stages done in a day. :-) Stats people may have their hands full unless the data is combined into a pair of Palms, or a master-slave is setup between the two clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Asked another way, what can the SC or AD do to stop them from running their match? Not sign the approval... They can just apply for an independent club code and continue anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Asked another way, what can the SC or AD do to stop them from running their match? Not sign the approval... They can just apply for an independent club code and continue anyway. Reading up on the by-laws, there are a few hoops to jump though for a club to do that. By my read, they need a legit reason and approval from the Area Director. (I have a question that I will PM you Gary.) 12.6 Independent ClubsA club may form as an Independent Club due to geographical location or for specific business related reasons. Clubs belonging to a Section may petition the Section Coordinator and Area Director to become an Independent club or to join a different Section due to geographical or specific business related reasons. The Area Director, following consultation with the Executive Director, may grant permission after determining that all financial obligations to the Section have been met. All activity credits earned prior to the approval shall remain the property of the club. The Area Director's decision may be appealed to the Board of Directors by the petitioning club or by any club within the Section. The Board shall review the appeal and make a final determination at its next Regular Meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts