Ruger Mini M14 or .30M1 Carbine ?

[Garfield]

Hi,

From a good friend I can buy either a Ruger Mini M14 or a .30M1 Carbine, very cheap. Both weapons are in excellent condition.

I would like to use the rifle for a start in IPSC Rifle, no need for being real competitive, just for fun. I know that there are better suited weapons out there, but at this point in time it's either one of these two, or nothing at all. For IPSC Handgun I am using a Glock because the weapon is reliable, cheap and does not need much maintenance. I would prefer such qualities in a rifle too.

I would like to hear opinions on both weapons.

What I am interested in is opinions about useability, reliability and accuracy of these weapons. Also, if you really think that I shouldn 't buy either one for "light IPSC rifle use", please tell me so and why.

And also, because reloading will not be an option for me (at least, for the next few years), opinions about availability and price of factory .30M1 ammunition.

I am very interested in your comments.

[PacMan]

First off, nothing wrong with using a Glock in matches.

For rifle, since the choice is mini14 or 30 carbine, I would recommend the mini 14. I used to shoot one, and never gave me any problems. The front iron sight blade is a little too thick, but otherwise it is a fine weapon. I think you can still find 30 (and 40) rounds mags at a good price. I don't know anything about the 30 carbine so can't commend.

Warning : Once you start 3 gunning, there will be no turning back ...

[Kingman]

I have several m1 carbines. They are very fun to shoot, failry accurate, and mags are cheap and ammo is even cheaper. Last stuff I got from cheaper thand dirt was like $2 for 50 or something like that. Everything for them as far as sights etc is readily available.

Slight drift. Not to mention how much fun it is to shoot those carbine rounds from a ruger blackhawk, and people think open guns are loud.

[Gun Geek]

I also have several M1 Carbines and love them.

I hear that the Rugers are not that reliable and not that accurate. Most M1s seem to function great and are plenty accurate out to 100yds or so.

If you get an M1, spend a little $$ (about $40) and get a RamLine synthetic stock. Much easier to handle, and doesn't ding up like wood. Looks cool, too!!!

[JFD]

I'd pick the M1 if I was forced to buy either one. Mags are cheap and of much better quality than the cheapo aftermarket Mini mags.

[Religious Shooter]

My vote goes to the Mini 14.

- capable of better capacity (15? vs 30/45 rounds).

- cheaper ammunition ($125-$200 vs. $215 per 1000)

- you can actually use it for 3-gun and be reasonably competitive

- better all around round for 3-gun (.223: 450+ yd capable)

[D.Hayden]

Another Mini vote..

Factory mini's need work, but there's a number of shops that specialize in making them extermley accurate. The Mini's can be tuned to get easily 1", and less, at 100, reliability is excellent, and comps are available..

[uscbigdawg]

Mini-14. The 30 Carbine was a huge mistake, IMHO and serves zero purpose other than for plinkin'.

That being said, the Mini-14, will allow much more flexibility for what you want to shoot. Varmint shooting to 3-gun to cans, you're good to go with the Mini-14. Too, there are mags available, the gun runs and a buddy that WILL be very competitive in Tactical at US3G runs one.

Rich

[Garfield]

Thanks for the tips so far, keep 'm coming please

[rhino]

I'd go with the Mini-14, but I don't think the M1 Carbine would be bad either, especially for stuff under 100 yards. A lot of 3-Gun stages are CQB stuff, and some clubs never shoot over 100 yards.

I do know of a guy who could hit 200 yard head shots with his M1 Carbine in 3-Gun matches, but he was an exceptional shooter with an exceptional weapon.

The only real downside of the M1 Carbine would be finding 30rd magazines that work every time, but it's not impossible.

[Garfield]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the answers so far.

In the meantime, I have done more research on the internet myself too.

At the moment, I am inclined to go with the Mini-14.

However, I came across some fierce discussions about (alleged) inaccuracy of the Mini-14, especially as the barrel heats up.

I shot this particular Mini-14 once at 100 meters, and I thought it was accurate enough, although I needed some getting used to the sights.

Does anyone have an opinion about that ?

And I heard people say that you shouldn't use the Mini-14 for rapid fire because it wouldn't be able to withstand that (?).

What about that ?

[PacMan]

Garfield,

If your choice for a rifle to use in 3 gunning is still Mini14 or 30 Carbine, I would say go ahead with the Mini. If you're now concerned about the Mini's accuracy, then I'd say save up the money for an AR15. What ever you do, don't buy the Mini and put $ in it to accurize, it never seemed to make sense to me to spend $400 on a rifle then send it to a shop along with another $400 (or more) to make it shoot a 2 MOA, while an AR15 out of the box will do the same thing .

[lmccrock]

I do not own a Mini, but as a former Californian, I have seen my fair share at matches. They are generally reliable, but be sure to test all magazines thoroughly. Countless times I have seen failures, and the shooter was using "new" magazines. Ruger and PMI magazines seem to be the ones which work. You can say the same thing about AR's, but it is way easier to find USGI mags which run well in an AR. Oh wait, Garfield is in the Netherlands, so plentiful "USGI" mags would be tough.

Ammo for the Mini can be found in match grades, to reduce that variable.

The 30 Carbine was a huge mistake

My first reaction to this was then "Son, them's fightin' words" but I settled down. The M1 carbine had a purpose (farther reach than a 1911 for soldiers who did not need to carry an M1 rifle), then it was changed into something it was not. Think of it as the M4 carbine of the 1940's.

And I do own both Blackhawk and AMT Automag III in 30 carbine. Yes, they do light up a range.

Kingman, when did you get 30 carbine ammo at $2 for 50? I have never seen non-corrosive ammo that cheap. The best I have seen in years is S&B for $8.

Lee

[Garfield]

Hi,

Pacman: I have shot this particular Mini-14 at 100 meters in slow-fire and was happy with the accuracy. I have no plans on spending more money on it to make it more accurate. It would be just for a fun start in IPSC Rifle, but it would be a shame if this rifle would prove almost worthless for that purpose. I know there are far more accurate weapons out there, I just want to be able to "come along" in the IPSC Rifle field. (If money were not a problem, I'd buy an M14 right away, but for now that's impossible for me).

And lmccrock: I indeed found a lot of stories about magazine troubles for the Mini-14, so I will test them thoroughly !

Thanks guys !

Any more opinions ?

[Kingman]

I found it at a local gunstore in Allegany County MD.

Everyonce in a while one of the local guys gets hella deals.

[warpspeed]

Garfiled,

I have shot a Mini-14 in USPSA 3-gun. The first thing I did was send the beast off to Accuracy Systems in Colorado to be have a new barrel. With hand loads, sub 1" @ 100 is normal. I did not shoot it before so I have no idea but 4" @ 100 is about normal for factory ammo with factory barrel. There is a real cool site called Perfect union. They have a whole area dedicated to the mini-14. lots of good info.

Good luck.

[Garrett]

I started with a Mini14 in local 3-gun matches, until I could move up to an AR15. The gun ran well, and accuracy was fine for IPSC. As others have noted, you will get more range from a .223 than from a .30 Carb.

If you are getting the guns from a friend, see about test driving both of them, and see if you like one better than the other.

[Garfield]

Hi,

In the past I have shot both weapons (field target, nothing dynamical) and seemed to like the Mini-14 better.

Yesterday I visited a local IPSC Rifle match and someone there owned a fully equipped Mini-14 and we discussed pro's and con's at lenght. (It was too late to shoot it unfortunately, plus my shoulder is hurting at the moment, can't shoot for a few weeks I'm afraid). He has been shooting two Mini-14's dynamically for over 10 years now and is very happy with them.

He said the only downside for the Mini-14 offered to me was that it is a stainless version which cannot withstand heavy abuse as good as a blued one, and the fact that I would need to get my hands on some magazines with higher capacity than the ones that are with the gun now (5 shots).

Next thursday the owner will bring the Mini-14 and the .30M1 along, so I can have a look ath them both again.

Thanks for your help guys !

[Garfield]

Hi,

Well yesterday I have shot both weapons and I have them both at home now, for further investigation. (For dutch readers: they are both on the "club permit", which I also have, so nothing illegal).

I sort of fell in love with the .30M1 .

Immediately upon picking the weapon up it felt good, whereas the Mini-14 seems to suit me less.

There are a couple of things to consider now, so I'll give a summary here (mainly for myself, but I would appreciate it if you would "check" my list for omissions and/or errors).

- .30M1 ammo is more expensive than .223, but I might be able to reload at a friend's house, so maybe the cost difference can be reduced.

- .223 is more accurate over greater distances.

- The .30M1 comes with a lot of "high-cap" magazines, the Mini-14 has just 1 5-shot magazine with it, so I would need to invest heavily in magazines if I'd go with the Mini-14.

- The sights on the .30M1 are nice, I hate the sights on the Mini-14.

- The stock of the .30M1 is ok for now, the stock on the Mini-14 isn't (to my taste).

- I can shoot the .30M1 at my regular practice sessions at my own club, in order to practice with the Mini-14 I'd have to find another range. (Remember most clubs in NL have only indoor ranges and some backstops (like ours) can't handle high-power rifle ammo).

Yesterday at the club somebody mentioned that magazines from the AR15 would fit the Mini-14, can one of you say something to that ?

Oh, and as I expected, both weapons will come very cheap at the same price, as I expected.

Anyone have any more opinions, advise, remarks, comments ?

I'm sooo in doubt, wish I could buy both .

[ErikW]

>Yesterday at the club somebody mentioned that magazines from the AR15 would fit the Mini-14, can one of you say something to that ?

No, they are different, but some manufacturers make special mags that fit both.

[warpspeed]

sounds to me that you have already made up your mind

btw, what mfg is the .30M1 ?

[Garfield]

Hi,

The .30M1 is a Winchester.

Well, I admit that I have fallen for this little fellow, but I don't want to rush anything, especially as too much emotion could impair one's judgement.

And, I like this phase of the buying process the most, so I don't want to haste it .

[Northern Xtreme]

Garfield,

I have owned a few M1 Carbines and A mini 14 which I shot IPSC with beforeI finally saved up enough for my AR 15.

You have listed some good reasons to support your purchase of either rifle. The M1 sounds like a good make being Winchester, it comes with some mags, and you can shoot it at your club, it has a better feel to you etc.

The mini 14 has cheaper ammo and it is more readily available. It will be better at longer ranges.

If faced with the same decision I personally would go with the Mini 14 especially if I were going to shoot it competively in IPSC matches. You can stil buy Mags even on ebay for $30 or so per 30 or even 40 rounder. Many IPSC rifle matches have you shooting plates out to 200 yards or more. I dont think the M1 could come close to keeping up with the Mini 14.

Another factor I always consider since I cant afford to buy a whole bunch of guns is the 5.56 ammo for the mini 14 is ready available NATO round. If the shit ever hits the fan it will be alot easier to get ammo.

You can also buy different stocks for the Mini 14 that will improve the way it feels, like a pistol grip stock. If the Mini 14 is a ranch rifle it has scope mounts built into the top of the receiver. If not you can get a scope mount fairly cheap for it and use a scope so the iron sight wont be a factor.

If you have possesion of both guns, set up an IPSC course with some quick close shots and some long shots and try firing both guns and see which performs better.

Good luck in your decison.

[Harmon]

i put an adjustable gas block on my mini and it reduced recoil and increased accuracy quite a bit.

the gun shoots reasonably accurate untill the barrel get hot...then they start to spread.

[wsimpso1]

Been around semi-suto long guns too long not to speak up on these recurring comments.

First, any rifle that has its groups open up as it gets warm has a barrel problem. If you have the issue and care about it, fix it by installing a good barrel that has been properly stress relieved and either free-floated or contacting the stock in a controlled manner. Factory Mini-14 barrels tend not to be stress relieved, so they "walk" as they warm. The Mini-14 is likely to have this problem, but a Winchester built M-1 Carbine is likely to have had its rifling cut (broached) and will do less of that sort of thing.

Second, autoloading rifles (Mini-14, M-1 Carbine, AR15, etc) with reliability problems are likely to have one of four issues, and perhaps more than one: No Lube/Dirty; Bad Magazine; Chamber Problems; Too Hot Ammo.

I have seen autoloading rifles that have NEVER been cleaned or lubed, usually after they start malf'ing. The M-1 carbine and Mini-14 need the gas system cleaned a few times in a lifetime. Other than that, they need the chambers cleaned and a dot of lube on the bolt lugs and op rod contact points. Do those things and any M-1 Rifle type action will usually work great.

Magazines must be tested. For the Mini, I would obtain one of each of the types available. For any semi-auto, number them, and maybe stick a paster on it when you have a malf. Then add tick marks for subsequent malfs. Find good ones and keep them clean.

Chamber problems run from dirty, rough, out-of-shape, to throats that are too short. Match chambers for semi-sutos should be no tighter than SAAMI Min Dimension. NRA High Power demands excellent accuracy and many of us use the Wylde chamber and throat, which is basically the SAAMI chamber with an intermediate length throat. It is noted for working well even with Ball ammo. Semi-auto chambers should be lightly polished through the body and kept clean. Getting rid of the sharp points on the chamber greatly eases cleaning and extraction. They get that way from use, so why not start that way?

Some batches of military ammo will give high pressure signs even with clean military type barrels and chambers. In the slightly smaller commercial and target grade throats, they will give difficulty extracting and pop primers. And then there are the hand loaders that try to make 223 Rem into something it is not. The extra 50-100 ft/s they are getting shortens barrel life, compromises accuracy, throws primers into the trigger or action, and can cause sticky extraction as evidenced by short stroking and ripped rims.

Once someone modifies operating system, all bets are off. I have heard far too many people leap right to "drilling out the gas port" when the gun short strokes or otherwise has troubles. Don't do it unless EVERYTHING else has been eliminated. The standard gas port location/size combinations work when the rest of the gun is OK. If the gun has parts that rub, are misaligned, or greatly modified, well, the potential for mischief is great, so your 'smith had better know what he or she is doing.

My choice? If I were to buy a rifle for three-gun and starting from scratch, I would see what the distances are for matches. If everything is under 100 m (that is the case in SE Michigan), the M-1 Carbine is an excellent choice. If you have shots out to 300 m, pick the Mini-14 and maybe have it massaged or just buy an AR15 with a float tube fore-end. Indoors only? Carbine works. One other advantage of M-1 Carbine - Small rifle primers, spherical or short stick powders and cheap bullets run through the Dillon or Hornady progressive just like a pistol. Those bottleneck rifle cases require a lot more fuss to reload.

Whatever you do, have fun.

Billski