ss+P Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 just started reloading .223, i have reloaded 40, 9, 7mm, 300 win mag,25 and 30-06. i am familiar with reloading. i have a dd 5.56 lightweight upper on a mixed lower. i have reloaded 5.56 for a friend and my reloads worked perfectly. when i try to put my reloads into my gun they feed, shoot and function fine, the problem comes when i have to unload the gun (yes i know i should just shoot it till its empty, but that isn't the best for 3 gun), the bullets don't want to come out of the chamber and i have decapitated some of them and got powder every where. the first time this happened i didn't have a good enough crimp on them and i have fixed that problem, but the problem with unloading remains. i will admit that i am not trimming my brass and i am going to look at the length of the brass tonight, but i wanted to know if there maybe something else wrong if that isn't the fix. i am loading on a dillon 550b with dillon dies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizzle Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Sounds like your overall length is too long and is pushing the bullet into the rifling. Now that you have increased your crimp you may not be able to seat the round fully into the chamber. Trimming isn't a necessity if the cases aren't too long but if they are you're asking for problems. I always trim once fired brass to 1.750 and usually get a few firings before I have to re-trim (lose the brass actually). Rifle cartridges are a whole different world from pistols. The pressures are extremely dangerous so make sure you're using and verifying actual reloading specs from a reputable source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss+P Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 i am using powder weights and OAL's from hodgdons website. i think they are reliable enough. haha/ yeah i am not sure what to try next. i have to look at the cases still. forgot to last night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Take a look that you're not setting the shoulder back when seating the bullet. With untrimmed brass, it's possible to get a mushroom at the shoulder, which will cause the case to get stuck in the chamber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dillon Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Is the barrel chambered for .223 or 5.56mm? 5.56mm has a longer throat. See if a sized, empty case easily extracts from a closed chamber. It sounds like your cartridge overall length is too long.When this occurs, the bullet gets jammed onto the rifling when chambered. If you manually attempt to extract the loaded cartridge, the case pulls off the bullet, making the aforementioned mess. What bullet weight, type, and OAL are you loading? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss+P Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 i am loading to 2.26" with a 50 gr vmax. i plan on using a heavier bullet, but that is what i had on hand. the gun is chambered for 5.56/.223. the data that i am using came off of hodgdon's website. i did notice that i rolled some of the shoulders on the first few that i attempted and then back the setting die back out and screwed the insert in to get the right length. as i said before i am using dillon 3 die set, so depriming/resizing, setting, crimping. i am guessing that if i am still rolling shoulders i should screw the setting die out and the insert down do get the right length. or could it be happening at the crimp stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I have never seen rounds that fit mag length in an AR jam the bullet into the lands. Mag length OAL is way to short for this to happen (2.265" is typical max mag length). Do you have an ammo check gauge? If so, try drop testing your ammo in it, If it fits and drops free from the gauge it should be good to go in any standard chamber. Check length of unloaded brass to make sure it is under 1.760" (trim to length is 1.750"). The suggestion about bullet seating causing the case neck to deform is possible. Crimping is not required in my humble opinion and you should only be using a taper crimp die IF you are crimping at all. A roll crimp type die will cause this. Also, lot's of seating dies are designed to roll crimp as they seat if the die body is threaded in deep enough. Maybe you have the seat die threaded in too far and the seating stem threaded out too far so the die is crushing case mouth on you. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss+P Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 i am using a taper crimp, as i mentioned above i am using a three die set from dillon, so i set oal and crimp in two different stages . i believe that it may be the setter die or the powder drop rolling the shoulders. i don't believe that it is the OAL. that is good to know that crimping is not the issue. once i again i have no update on the process b/c i didn't get the to reloading room last night. i will hopefully get there tonight or this weekend and give an update Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 If the rounds are fitting the magazine, its not an OAL problem, at least not at the beginning. Sounds more like a crimp issue. Do this test: Take a sized piece of brass and plop a bullet on top with no powder or primer. Measure the exact length and load it in a magazine. Lock the AR bolt back and insert the mag, then drop the bolt to chamber the dummy round. Eject the dummy round slowly and measure it again. If its longer (or shorter) then you need to tighten the crimp after you seat the bullet. If you can do this test a couple times and the lengths dont change, then you can move on to examining other steps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blairmckenzie1 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 check your sizing die. I've seen them same problem, on a single stage press, when a friends sizing die wasn't set up right. Not enough neck tension to hold on to the bullet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss+P Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 ok so i am starting to think that my upper doesn't like reloads for some unknown reason. i took all the dies out and started over. i started with the sizing die and screwed it all the way in with the shell plate raised, when it touched the plate i backed it off a quarter turn. the powder drop seemed fine. the setting die was a little tricky. the oal plug in the middle of die would only screw in so far. so i screwed the die itself down until it touched the brass then began turning the the plug down until it wouldn't turn anymore. then i started turning the whole die down until i got the oal to 2.26. didn't see any problems and it didn't seem to distort the brass. at this point i took the upper off my rifle and took the bolt out. i dropped the bullet in and it seemed to seat all the way in and i turned the upper up and it came out easily. i screwed the crimp die in until it crimped just a little. (side note i thought this is were my problem was coming from b/c the die was too far in and was being pushed up by the shellplate.) One complete bullet. put the upper back on the lower and tried to chamber it. chambered fine, was able to dry fire, and when i went to eject the round manually it wouldn't come out. i had to hold onto the charging handle and smack the butt of the rifle on the floor to get it to "unlock" i mean the dam thing was stuck. i measured the oal of the bullet and it was still 2.26. so i measured the brass and it was a little longer than most of you recommended. it was close to 1.770. I know the same brass and same bullet set up will chamber and eject on my friends ar 15 so i am not sure why it won't work on mine. upper details it is a daniel defense 16" lite weight upper. not sure where to go from here, is the oal of the brass really causing this to happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 trim your brass to 1.750 set your sizer to the shell plate then screw it IN 1/4 turn FURTHER set OAL to 2.250 see if that helps. jj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss+P Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Thanks i will give that a try. i took my dummy round and it chambered in 4 of my friends ar's and ejected fine with manual opperation. I am thinking that maybe the DD has tighter tolerance then the others i tried it on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbauer67 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Plain and simple, you must trim the brass to no longer than 1.750", I know trimming is a pain, but there is a reason it is necessary. Shoot for an OAL in the range of 2.240-2.245, you will find that the tip of the bullets varies a lot, so you need to take a sample of several loaded rounds and use the average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kschwan Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Had the same experience when I started loading .223/.556. My issue ended up being the sizing die was not low enough. I highly encourage you to get a chamber die to check your finished rounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss+P Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 ok so i finally got it to work. First i trimmed the brass to 1.740 and tried the dummy round an an OAL of 2.26 and it didnt' work the round still got stuck. So i checked the forum and took another suggestion and shortened my round to 2.24 and it worked, my round finally loaded, dry-fired, and ejected. success. Now the upper is for sale. i don't want to have to trim brass so i am buying my friends upper that will chamber the rounds at the length and w/o trimming the brass. Thanks for all the help guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 ok so i finally got it to work. First i trimmed the brass to 1.740 and tried the dummy round an an OAL of 2.26 and it didnt' work the round still got stuck. So i checked the forum and took another suggestion and shortened my round to 2.24 and it worked, my round finally loaded, dry-fired, and ejected. success. Now the upper is for sale. i don't want to have to trim brass so i am buying my friends upper that will chamber the rounds at the length and w/o trimming the brass. Thanks for all the help guys I don't think it is the trimming that made it all good. I'd guess it is the OAL. What is your source for brass ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 having to trim bottle neck rifle brass is just a fact of life, it must be done. you can buy pre-processed, but you can only shoot it once, then it needs trimming again... jj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikaze1a Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 If you are pulling the bullet by hand ejecting, it must be your bullet is lodging in the throat. Just seat the bullets deeper or shorter OAL. Some load manuals have OAL as short as 2.200". Having your bullets touching the throat will increase pressure and does not necessarily produce better groups. Also note that shorter OAL will increase pressure too so if you are loading max loads, back off powder when decreasing OAL. Try the shorter OAL and shoot some groups. You'll probably find the slightly shorter OAL groups fine. If you seat them just under max OAL and crimp insufficiently, the bolt slamming home could increase OAL via inertia and get stuck in throat. You said you measured your OAL after ejecting but did you let the bolt drop or did you release the bcg and lower the bcg slowly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss+P Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 ok so i traded a guy at a gun show, my upper for his upper (he is a gun builder with an FFL, not some random dude). I love the new upper, it is the flatest shooting ar i have shot (granted i haven't shot a lot, but it is flat and soft). problem is that this one won't accept the G(*DAM BRASS EITHER. not sure what the problem is or why my friends ar's will unload my reloads manually, but mine will not. it is a little frustrating. i am comming to terms with the fact that i am going to have to either trim my brass or buy bullets. (probably the first option) so i ask this question to you all. What is your process or does it not matter. in the trimming process i am including all the deburring processes (if i do them). DO YOU TRIM, TUMBLE, RELOAD ON A DILLON 550 DO YOU DEPRIME/RESIZE, TRIM, TUMBLE, RELOAD I am leaning toward the first option, assuming there is nothing majorly wrong with this. i plan on just plinking and shooting 3 gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 dude... You MUST trim and resize 223 brass. It just a fact. See above post from me on numbers, but the process is; size/decap, trim, (on one diehead) tumble, load on a 2nd head. .jj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss+P Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 yeah i am learning that i am going to need to trim. i was just wondering if you trim the deprime/size or deprime/size and then trim i am loading on a progressive and it kind of seems like a waste to deprime/size then take off the press and trim/clean and prep then put back on the press to load. I get it that i have to trim just tring to make since of the whole process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artsville Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Enjoy! http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=313431 art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowsure Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 My 5.56 reload sequence goes like this: Tumble Lube Size/Deprime (in one 550B tool head) Tumble Swedge primer pocket Trim to length (1.750 on a Garraud sp? trimmer) Load (in one 550B tool head: first station Universal Decapper, second station Powder, third station Bullet Seat, fourth Crimp) Loading rifle is a PITA compared to pistol. I find if I skip any of the above, I get problems. YMMV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterready Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 My 5.56 reload sequence goes like this: Tumble Lube Size/Deprime (in one 550B tool head) Tumble Swedge primer pocket Trim to length (1.750 on a Garraud sp? trimmer) Load (in one 550B tool head: first station Universal Decapper, second station Powder, third station Bullet Seat, fourth Crimp) Loading rifle is a PITA compared to pistol. I find if I skip any of the above, I get problems. YMMV +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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