Max Traps

[walter hornby]

ok i shoot my first Max traps this year at the USPSA Nationals. I now want to introduce them to Canada and use them in next years provincials. My welder builder is ready to build them but i need a set of blue prints for them! does any one have a set they can share? even a good sketch would work. thanks in advance.

[Sherwyn]

Might want to consider buying the original.

Max is a great guy to work with.

Max Trap

ok i shoot my first Max traps this year at the USPSA Nationals. I now want to introduce them to Canada and use them in next years provincials. My welder builder is ready to build them but i need a set of blue prints for them! does any one have a set they can share? even a good sketch would work. thanks in advance.

[bbbean]

Might want to consider buying the original.

Max is a great guy to work with.

Max Trap

+1! Max's stuff is built right, too.

[ChuckS]

Might want to consider buying the original.

Max is a great guy to work with.

Max Trap

ok i shoot my first Max traps this year at the USPSA Nationals. I now want to introduce them to Canada and use them in next years provincials. My welder builder is ready to build them but i need a set of blue prints for them! does any one have a set they can share? even a good sketch would work. thanks in advance.

Fixed the link...

[shred]

[Moved from topics-that-don't-fit-anywhere to Target & Prop Construction]

[remoandiris]

Copying someone else's design could be a patent infringement. At the least it is stealing intellectual property.

[juan]

Copying someone else's design could be a patent infringement. At the least it is stealing intellectual property.

so if I cut skate board tape to fit my grips, am I stealing from the manufactures that make these pre cut?

I have buit bumpers for my truck is that wrong?

[Chills1994]

I know Max. I've shot in the same squad as Max at major matches. Max makes good stuff, and I would highly recommend that you buy his stuff.

[Flexmoney]

Does he export to Canada?

(I love those drop-turners, btw.)

[shred]

Copying someone else's design could be a patent infringement. At the least it is stealing intellectual property.

so if I cut skate board tape to fit my grips, am I stealing from the manufactures that make these pre cut?

I have buit bumpers for my truck is that wrong?

If you traced around the outline of somebodys grip tape to make your own then maybe. If you just cut some to fit, no.

The Max-Trap target concept should be easy enough to replicate without exact plans.

[Chills1994]

cough * cough * It is * cough

[bbbean]

Copying someone else's design could be a patent infringement. At the least it is stealing intellectual property.

so if I cut skate board tape to fit my grips, am I stealing from the manufactures that make these pre cut?

I have buit bumpers for my truck is that wrong?

Not the same thing.

[Chills1994]

I redacted some stuff, let's say, so here is the Cliff's Notes version:

In shooting circles, it would be one thing to copy and use somebody else's design for your own personal uses.

However, it would be an entirely different matter to "steal" that design, copy it, then start making them yourself and selling them. And in shooting circles where somebody always knows somebody else, if that was the case, I would not be surprised if somebody spoke up and said something to you at a major match about it.

The three fastest forms of communication are:

telephone

television

tell-a-shooter

PS: way back when, I used Nolan Smyth's brass striper invention/idea from hosercam.com to make my own brass striper out of a hose clamp, a laundry marker, and a 2X4 block of wood. I posted my idea here with pics. I was chastised by at least one other BE forum member for not supporting Nolan and buying one of his....so yeah, I guess you could say have been there done that. Of course, my brass striper was stone axe simple, and I had no visions of selling them.

[walter hornby]

hmmm strange my post seems to have disappeared. oh well i will try again.

First off i didn't realize that some one named Max actually built the Max trap. i figured it was more like a pepper popper (yes i know the name is from Bill Pepper.) Next is he set up for exporting to canada. lastly i am sure someone in your homeland security would decide that it must be for military use and and deny it exportation.

Anyhow i have a post off to Mas to see if he can ship to Canada.

[Chills1994]

it would probably be cheaper to just email Max Davidson, but in case you want to call:

573-225-6861

I have no idea how that importing/exporting to Canada thing works with gun related items.

It's not like it's an Aimpoint or ACOG scope.

[jmorris]

Any welder worth his filler material should be able to build one from a photo. Most I know could build one just by explaining the concept of a weight swiveling a mount 90 deg and falling off, allowing the mount to return.

No more theft of intellectual property that all of the non Colt 1911's.

[Chills1994]

Any welder worth his filler material should be able to build one from a photo. Most I know could build one just by explaining the concept of a weight swiveling a mount 90 deg and falling off, allowing the mount to return.

No more theft of intellectual property that all of the non Colt 1911's.

A'yup, j, you hit the nail squarely on the head with that one.

given that a USPSA or IDPA target is yay wide (18 inches I think), it would not be too much harder to "scale" the contraption around those dimensions.

I noticed Karl from GT Targets is taking over for Terry Ashton with respect to making the Texas Star.

I would imagine, j, that your thoughts are similar on that too.

[trickpony]

Walter, your welder can easily build the items you're after. Ed can build anything!

[Flexmoney]

hmmm strange my post seems to have disappeared. oh well i will try again.

Nope. It seems it was moved to the proper forum is all.

[Braxton1]

No more theft of intellectual property that all of the non Colt 1911's.

Actually, no...

The 1911 design was sold to the military, therefore patents get real weird because the military is free to contract the actual manufacture of those items to whomever they want.

Also, patents eventually expire; generally speaking, within 17 years.

I don't know if Max has patented his Trap, but morally, I'd say that it would be best to honor the man who invented it with one's checkbook, JMHO, although I do understand the "if you build one for personal use and don't sell it" side to the discussion.

By the way, when he ships these, it is FedEx Ground and they are shipped "bare" (no boxes, just everything bound together with a FedEx label attached to it). It would probably be un-recognizable as anything remotely connected to firearms if he didn't stencil "GUNSTEEL.COM" to the stand, so they'd probably easily pass Customs at the border if he didn't stencil it.

I was in the same boat as y'all: saw 'em at the Nationals, went B.S.C. over it, and had to buy one (along with some of his other products). He makes a great product and is great to deal with.

[jmorris]

How many people make target stands, swingers, dropturns, shot timers, chronographs etc. Further, who was the first to come up with each different design? Are all of the others considered theft of intellectual property? If so are you or your club in possession of stolen property?

I know the electronics in chronographs and shot timers are "new" (late 1950's for the integrated circuit) but the use of counterweights to move things around started before 400 BC.

[bbbean]

How many people make target stands, swingers, dropturns, shot timers, chronographs etc. Further, who was the first to come up with each different design? Are all of the others considered theft of intellectual property? If so are you or your club in possession of stolen property?

I know the electronics in chronographs and shot timers are "new" (late 1950's for the integrated circuit) but the use of counterweights to move things around started before 400 BC.

If that's your standard for intellectual theft, then I suppose we're all ripping off the first guy who noticed that logs rolled downhill, but square rocks didn't.

Those of us in the "just buy it from Max" camp are recognizing that while the principles may be old, the unique combination of those principles, the trial and error to perfect the construction of a machine based on those principles, the connections and experience to make such a machine a recognized and legal USPSA target, and the fact that the target is built by a long time USPSA shooter, supporter, and general all around good guy are worth something.

As a practical matter, despite the fact that I have a couple of welders working for me on the farm, I have often found that it is easier to buy a commercial product than fabricate a copy because, as my guys say, "somebody else already made all the mistakes". YMMV.

[Poppa Bear]

How many people make target stands, swingers, dropturns, shot timers, chronographs etc. Further, who was the first to come up with each different design? Are all of the others considered theft of intellectual property? If so are you or your club in possession of stolen property?

I know the electronics in chronographs and shot timers are "new" (late 1950's for the integrated circuit) but the use of counterweights to move things around started before 400 BC.

If that's your standard for intellectual theft, then I suppose we're all ripping off the first guy who noticed that logs rolled downhill, but square rocks didn't.

Those of us in the "just buy it from Max" camp are recognizing that while the principles may be old, the unique combination of those principles, the trial and error to perfect the construction of a machine based on those principles, the connections and experience to make such a machine a recognized and legal USPSA target, and the fact that the target is built by a long time USPSA shooter, supporter, and general all around good guy are worth something.

As a practical matter, despite the fact that I have a couple of welders working for me on the farm, I have often found that it is easier to buy a commercial product than fabricate a copy because, as my guys say, "somebody else already made all the mistakes". YMMV.

This is exactly how I look at it. I have designed a number of different props, make some swing out target holders and our welder can make and has made all manner of swingers etc. Some things are easy to fabricate, find the right bearing and weld together some parts. Done well you have a swinger that never seems to stop, a star that rotates forever even after all the plates are off. When it comes to parts that require timing to function be it a drop turner, a max trap, or a clam shell I would rather buy the completed unit from someone that has already worked out the bugs so that it will work right the first time it is used during a match.

Could our fabrication people duplicate anything we purchase commercially? You bet they could, but why when we already have one or two that are perfectly functional to start with.

[jmorris]

As a practical matter, despite the fact that I have a couple of welders working for me on the farm, I have often found that it is easier to buy a commercial product than fabricate a copy

I understand people have different areas of expertise but that's a different subject.

I simply couldn't see how someone building a counterweighted gravity return target would be called a thief when there are so many other "ideas" that have been copied throughout our sport(s), you could list pages of examples.

[Chills1994]

Before it appears that I am climbing up on my moral high horse, my opinion is that if you're a tinkerer/businessman and you want your idea or product not to be copied or stolen, get a patent.