shred Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I shot the high-speed video for this (the rest is not me) and figured it might answer a few questions about light/heavy springs and their effects on recoil, muzzle bounce and feeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LINC Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Good video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvary45 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Thanks for the video, good info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Miles Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 How about doing another video using only 12# and 14# recoil springs and using 17#, 18# and 19# main springs? Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 I'll ask (or better yet, all y'all ask in the video comments) Mainsprings are more of a pain to change though-- I wonder how many MSH's I can scrounge up for a quick-change setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Hello: How about firing pin stops with a different radius while your at it. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) Or you could just spend an afternoon at the range and try out all the different combinations yourself. Videos are nice, but they are no replacement for figuring it out yourself. A lot of what spring combo you need to use is based on your shooting style and grip. The only person who can figure out what you need is you. This video gives you a good baseline for what to look for in slide speed/pause and muzzle flip/dip when shooting different springs. Now all you need to do is put it into practice. Edited November 1, 2011 by CHA-LEE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 Or you could just spend an afternoon at the range and try out all the different combinations yourself. Videos are nice, but they are no replacement for figuring it out yourself. A lot of what spring combo you need to use is based on your shooting style and grip. The only person who can figure out what you need is you. This video gives you a good baseline for what to look for in slide speed/pause and muzzle flip/dip when shooting different springs. Now all you need to do is put it into practice. Absolutely. Use the info in the video as a baseline and work from there based on results, personal preference and skill level. I run a 7 or 8 in my Open gun but had to put a stout spring (16-ish) in the Mod gun to get the nose to come back down how I liked it. Others whined piteously about how horribly strong the spring was. Working on doing some mainspring & maybe a slide-stop test. That could be interesting though I'm not likely to shoot many with the square stop. Does bad things to the pin holes after a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueOvalBruin Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 That FPS geometry test would be interesting to see. I have put big generous radiuses on all my 1911/2011 FPS’, the radius goes all the way to the FP hole. The additional leverage minimizes the impact of the hammer cocking to the slide dynamics. The guns seem flatter and faster cycling now but some video would help verify what my eyes perceive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scffacenter1 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Only thing i really don't understand or agree with (could just possibly be from lack of understanding) is why you want that slide to stay open for so long. Seems to me you would only want it to stay open long enough to safely eject the casing (not come back and catch it) Your reasoning in the video was that if it came forward too quickly the next round would not have had enough time to rise up into the ready position to be stripped from the magazine, and that the slide would pass over it, but the way I understand it (or at least how it seems to work in my guns) is that the next round rises into position the instant that the one above it is stripped and would already be in position by the time that the round was chambered and definitely before the round could go off, and slide make it's rearward trip and then start forward. Could you please explain this a little better. I'm just learning and trying to understand all the info this forum provides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian guy Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Only thing i really don't understand or agree with (could just possibly be from lack of understanding) is why you want that slide to stay open for so long. Seems to me you would only want it to stay open long enough to safely eject the casing (not come back and catch it) Your reasoning in the video was that if it came forward too quickly the next round would not have had enough time to rise up into the ready position to be stripped from the magazine, and that the slide would pass over it, but the way I understand it (or at least how it seems to work in my guns) is that the next round rises into position the instant that the one above it is stripped and would already be in position by the time that the round was chambered and definitely before the round could go off, and slide make it's rearward trip and then start forward. Could you please explain this a little better. I'm just learning and trying to understand all the info this forum provides. Physics dictates that it can't occur instantaneously... A simplistic view of the forces at work are: gravity acting on the mass of a full stack of bullets, the friction those bullets have to overcome as they start to move (due to contact with the inside of the mag body). The force to overcome that comes from the mag spring. The stack can't start to move until the rail on the bottom of the slide comes clear of the top bullet in the stack, once that happens the slide continues to move rearward for a short distance before it bottoms out and starts moving forward. When the breach face of the slide comes forward even with the rim of the case the top round in the mag must be in position. The motion of the slide dictates a short window during which the force of the mag spring must accelerate the stack of cartridges up the mag body to get them in place to feed. many factors can impact this: strength of the mag spring, smoothness of the inside of the mag tube (seems to matter more for double stack guns), length of slide stroke (e.g. if you added a thick shock buff). It all boils down to F=M*A... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scffacenter1 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 "The stack can't start to move until the rail on the bottom of the slide comes clear of the top bullet in the stack, once that happens the slide continues to move rearward for a short distance before it bottoms out and starts moving forward." --caspian guy Thanks, i was under the impression that once the top round is stripped out on its way into the chamber, the next one was already on its way up. I didn't realize that the next round stays down in the mag until the slide passes back over it in its rearward travel. Just does not make sense to me. I realize that it prob. takes longer on double stacks, but is this a problem that happens often? just trying to picture what part of the gun keeps the next round down until the slide goes forward and then back again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian guy Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) "The stack can't start to move until the rail on the bottom of the slide comes clear of the top bullet in the stack, once that happens the slide continues to move rearward for a short distance before it bottoms out and starts moving forward." --caspian guy Thanks, i was under the impression that once the top round is stripped out on its way into the chamber, the next one was already on its way up. I didn't realize that the next round stays down in the mag until the slide passes back over it in its rearward travel. Just does not make sense to me. I realize that it prob. takes longer on double stacks, but is this a problem that happens often? just trying to picture what part of the gun keeps the next round down until the slide goes forward and then back again. There is a rib on the bottom of the slide in most self loading pistols that holds the top round in the magazine slightly depressed when the pistol is in battery. If you take the slide off, flip it upside down and look at the back section on the bottom behind the breach face you will see it. To watch how this works take a mag with a single round in it. Insert it with the gun in battery with an empty chamber. First thing to notice its that some effort its required to push the mag home till it locks in. That comes from the rib pushing the round down and compressing the spring. Next while watching from above the ejection port, slowly retract the slide and watch what happens. Edited December 4, 2011 by caspian guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scffacenter1 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 wow, thanks for explaining that. I have never noticed that before, but now it makes perfect sense and I can visually see it happening. I have a few 1911's and learn a little more about them every day. I think you could spend years looking at these guns and still not get every little mechanical nuance. Info like this is what makes this forum so great. Thanks caspian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noexcuses Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 thanks for the vid, looks like I will be getting a few springs and new guide rod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Gaines Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) I think the first thing to do before playing with recoil springs, is to play with your hammer springs or mainspring first. find a hammer spring that will effectively strike your primers reliably. than play with your recoil springs. I recently picked up a new gun and it had a 19# hammer spring, and it had a 11# recoil, but it didn't feel that way pulling the slide back, it felt like it had a 14 or 15# recoil spring. What I did was replace the hammer spring with a 15# hammer spring and then tested it to make sure that it was going to ignite primers, and it did smacked them hard. Changing the hammer spring made the slide much smoother back and forth, and took the tuning fork effect out of the gun while shooting. so in conclusion, change hammer spring first,you may have more hammer spring than is neccesary, and this will allow you to use much lighter recoil springs, and give you a wider range of recoil springs to use and try. both springs go hand in hand. Also be sure to polish the hammer, firing pin stop, chamber/ramp etc. Also tune your mags, because all of this variables have an impact on percieved recoil, if the slide is working hard to push a bullet into the chamber your gun is going to feel different than if its stripping the bullets off and they are just going straght into the chamber. hope this helps -Sean Edited January 26, 2012 by Sean Gaines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming the Merciless Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I think the first thing to do before playing with recoil springs, is to play with your trigger springs first. find a trigger spring that will effectively strike your primers reliably. than play with your recoil springs. I recently picked up a new gun and it had a 19# trigger spring, and it had a 11# recoil, but it didn't feel that way pulling the slide back, it felt like it had a 14 or 15# recoil spring. What I did was replace the trigger spring with a 15# trigger spring and then tested it to make sure that it was going to ignite primers, and it did smacked them hard. Changing the trigger spring made the slide much smooter back and forth, and took the tuning fork effect out of the gun while shooting. so in conclusion, change trigger spring first,you may have more trigger spring than is neccesary, and this will allow you to use much lighter recoil springs, and give you a wider range of recoil springs to use and try. both springs go hand in hand. Also be sure to polish the hammer, firing pin stop, chamber/ramp etc. Also tune your mags, because all of this variables have an impact on percieved recoil, if the slide is working hard to push a bullet into the chamber your gun is going to feel different than if its stripping the bullets off and they are just going straght into the chamber. hope this helps -Sean By the numbers quoted above it sounds like you mean the Mainspring, not a 'trigger' spring. The effect of the Mainspring on the gun unlocking will also be affected by the radius on the bottom of the Firing Pin Stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Gaines Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I think the first thing to do before playing with recoil springs, is to play with your trigger springs first. find a trigger spring that will effectively strike your primers reliably. than play with your recoil springs. I recently picked up a new gun and it had a 19# trigger spring, and it had a 11# recoil, but it didn't feel that way pulling the slide back, it felt like it had a 14 or 15# recoil spring. What I did was replace the trigger spring with a 15# trigger spring and then tested it to make sure that it was going to ignite primers, and it did smacked them hard. Changing the trigger spring made the slide much smooter back and forth, and took the tuning fork effect out of the gun while shooting. so in conclusion, change trigger spring first,you may have more trigger spring than is neccesary, and this will allow you to use much lighter recoil springs, and give you a wider range of recoil springs to use and try. both springs go hand in hand. Also be sure to polish the hammer, firing pin stop, chamber/ramp etc. Also tune your mags, because all of this variables have an impact on percieved recoil, if the slide is working hard to push a bullet into the chamber your gun is going to feel different than if its stripping the bullets off and they are just going straght into the chamber. hope this helps -Sean By the numbers quoted above it sounds like you mean the Mainspring, not a 'trigger' spring. The effect of the Mainspring on the gun unlocking will also be affected by the radius on the bottom of the Firing Pin Stop. your correct! edited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havotec1 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Great video, good to see the cycle in super slow motion. Thanks for your effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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