9mm open gun

[tangiltows]

for all of ya'll in the know, does a 9 mil make any sense for an open gun as far as ported and comped barrels go? what would you guestimate the reduction in recoil to be with a 9 major load in a comped barrel over no comp w/ a 125 @ 1400'ish fps? would a 40 be a better choice or should i bite the bullet in brass costs and shoot a super or sc to generate more gas for the comp? the games i shoot now do not require a power factor and shoot a tanfo limited w/ 2.6 grs clays w/ 125 bayou greens @ around 870 fps. really soft, gun don't move. been looking around for a gold team in 9 mil but they are almost non-existant. bud's has one @ $500 more than a 40 or 45, WTF? if i knew w/ certainty that i would not ever have to meet power factor i would pick up another limited, knock the rear site off, buy a mount and stick a c-more on it and stay w/ the loads i shoot now. not really into the 1911 thing as the tanfo seems to be made to fit my hand like a glove and exibits less flip than my wife's 9mm trojan. input appreciated, vic

[Sarge]

Not really sure what games you play but I can tell you I push 121's to 1430 fps in a 9mm Comped Open gun. I don't even want to guess what it would shoot like in a non comped gun. Not nearly as pleasant I'm sure. You can get plenty of gas going in a 9mm using the right powder/bullet combination. I have shot 9MAJOR and 38 super back to back and there was very little if any difference between the two.

[tangiltows]

Not really sure what games you play but I can tell you I push 121's to 1430 fps in a 9mm Comped Open gun. I don't even want to guess what it would shoot like in a non comped gun. Not nearly as pleasant I'm sure. You can get plenty of gas going in a 9mm using the right powder/bullet combination. I have shot 9MAJOR and 38 super back to back and there was very little if any difference between the two.

kevin, i guess that is the answer i was looking for. let's face the facts that 9mm brass is an assload cheaper than super or sc as you are going to lose a lot of it. $200/1000 as opposed to new 9mm leaves a lot of room for more powder, bullets and primers not counting all the WWB shooters out there that stop @ wallyworld, shoot, and leave it on the ground to be picked up by a handloader. 9mm makes the most sense to me as i don't have to change the dillon up to accomodate another caliber, maybe only the powder charge. now if i could only find a gold team @ a reasonable price! many thanks, vic

[ParaGunner]

From what I hear most open shooters only use their 9mm brass once, while 38 brass can be used until you lose it at the range. I have some old 38 super brass that you can barely read the writing it's been reloaded so many times.

[CocoBolo]

Most folks don't get it, you can relaod 38SC many times for arguments sake say 10 or 12 times, you spray some Dikem on them and it makes them easy to find. 9 major well you pay $25 a thousand and up but its a one shot run. I've been shooting 9 major for about 2 years now and gone thru 40,000 pieces of used 9 mm bras. I still have and shoot 38SC, I started by buying 2K of brass, became anal about picking it up, Ro'ed a few majors still have one box of 1K new, and 5K of used, after 2 years of shooting 38SC. So it costs a lot less than shooting 9 major.

I shoot 9 major so I don't have to pick up brass, gives me more time to concentrate on the match, etc, and I don't have to be out in the sun picking it up when it is 110 hot.

Loading 38SC is heavenly compared to 9 major, nothing more annonying than hitting a WCC, GECKO, or other crimped case in the middle of a run, crushing a primer, then having to stop and clean the primer feed, the cases are full of powder it slops out a bit, no matter how many bearing you pit on the shell plate. With 38SC all the brass is good, you just pull the handle let the case feeder and bullet feed do all the work.

There are plenty of 9 major powders, however, it limits the design of the gun, putting a bunch of big poppel holes in the gun, is the formula for disaster. IMHO.

I had a 40 open, well I got it for $650.00 mags holster the whole package. Shooting factory ammo it was ok, but the mag capacity well that will always make you feel like you are at a disadvantage. It had a tube scope on it, love those things, I think they are more accurate than the C-more. There is a whole forum of 40 open guys, check it out, but between 40 open and 9 major, its 9 major.

[herky]

"I shoot 9 major so I don't have to pick up brass, gives me more time to concentrate on the match, etc, and I don't have to be out in the sun picking it up when it is 110 hot."

+1

With 9mm I don't feel like I'm spitting 15 cents out on the ground every time I pull the trigger. I switched from 9supercomp to 9mm on both my open guns and feel that there are enough options (powder and bullets) in 9mm for me.

[Sarge]

"I shoot 9 major so I don't have to pick up brass, gives me more time to concentrate on the match, etc, and I don't have to be out in the sun picking it up when it is 110 hot."

+1

With 9mm I don't feel like I'm spitting 15 cents out on the ground every time I pull the trigger. I switched from 9supercomp to 9mm on both my open guns and feel that there are enough options (powder and bullets) in 9mm for me.

Amen. I never buy brass either. I shoot enough local steel matches each year to keep me in once fired 9mm brass. Besides I reload my 9mm brass more than once for sure. I don't over do it but I am pretty careful in my reloading process.

I also sort my brass so I never worry about the crimps and junk brass getting in the mix.

With Auto Comp I have zero issues with powder spillage but then again I use a 550 and can load as smooth or as jerky as I like.

[enutees]

Tangiltows, There are plenty of local guys that shoot 9mm open that you could talk to. And we have a local source for once fired 9mm for $20/1000. PM for details if you don't know him. Also, I'm sure we've met before if you shoot the local matches I just don't know your screen name.

Years ago I shot 38 supercomp and the stress of losing brass was no good for me. I realize the math is there to support 38 super but I guess I'm not all that rational all the time.

[the duck of death]

*QUOTE*

From what I hear most open shooters only use their 9mm brass once

I have 2 G34 open guns. Loads--121MG, 7.6 Silhouette & 8.3 HS-6, Win SP primers, WW brass. Have had no problem w/brass longevity.

[tangiltows]

Tangiltows, There are plenty of local guys that shoot 9mm open that you could talk to. And we have a local source for once fired 9mm for $20/1000. PM for details if you don't know him. Also, I'm sure we've met before if you shoot the local matches I just don't know your screen name.

Years ago I shot 38 supercomp and the stress of losing brass was no good for me. I realize the math is there to support 38 super but I guess I'm not all that rational all the time.

at best, i get to shoot everyother weekend @ nick's matches. i don't like picking my brass up untill the match is over as we all pitch in on taping targets and scoring. most of the folks there will respect your property, but alas, there are a bunch of brass hogs also. tried the sharpie method of marking brass but it winds up all over my hands and clothes so i would just assume to not worry about picking brass up at all. 9mm is alot cheaper than super! my problem rite now is finding a tanfo gold team in 9mm to mate w/ my tanfo limited 9mm. really like these guns. the gun fits me better than a 1911 and exibits less recoil due to the lower bore axis. would like the details on your brass guy. many thanks, laura&vic

[texarkana]

CocoBolo...what is dikem that you put on brass so it is easy to find?

Edited September 26, 2011 by texarkana

[Sarge]

CocoBolo...what is dikem that you put on brass so it is easy to find?

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CEwQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.buydykem.com%2F&ei=IM9_Tsr6Fa2rsALAmeEw&usg=AFQjCNEG0Rc26AZADo8jnX7Ic8MRm0IprQ&sig2=rkAyrTzmGtemlqsXJMR6HQ

[Sarge]

Or here

http://www.dymon.com/

Looks like Dymon is the parent company of dykem.

It's just ink.

[Pezco]

Actually ITW is the Parent company, the company I work for. I'll get some samples when I get back from Europe this week.

[Kriojas]

Dykem layout fluid is what you want to use. They have it in an aerosol 16oz can for about 14$ from grainger. In the aerosol its only avalible in red or blue. You can buy other colors that can be brushed on. It works really good.

[Sarge]

Actually ITW is the Parent company, the company I work for. I'll get some samples when I get back from Europe this week.

WELL EXCUUUUUUUSE ME!!! When you type Dykem into the search it comes up as Dymon with Dykem listed under it.

Thanks for the info Ralph.

[texarkana]

I have heard that you are allowed one dumb question per day. So here is mine. Which way is best? Brush the back of the casing or use the aerosol and spray the what??

[CocoBolo]

Hey I can't spell. Its Dykem

And here is where to find it: http://www.emisupply..._term=ITW-80096 There are other places but I just order 4 cans online once a year.

I use the Aersol. Take a 2 ft 2x6 put 100 holes in it the depth that exposes the portion of the brass you want to mark and hit it with the spray, don't drown it just a light pass in each direction, turn the board around hit the other side.

I don't worry about the primers let them be red or blue.

I clean my firing pin and extractor tunnel every 2k when running marked rounds every 5k when not.

I started out cleaning the loaded rounds with brake cleaner, but found out that wasn't necessary since I don't use a lubricant. I also started out whiping the primers off but also gave that up when I found out it didn't matter.

I only mark 38SC. Marking 9 mm could be hazardous to your health. I painted a bunch of 9 major red, then shot with a buch of 38Super guys, they kept picking the 9's up and got very angry! 9 major needs to be shot once and forgotten. If you pick it up you will find lots of primers in the tumbler, and after a couple loading put a hand full of round in a plastic bag and shake them, you'd be suprised how many primers fall out. I use a CasePro and still only shoot them once.

Edited September 26, 2011 by CocoBolo

[MoNsTeR]

9 Major brass has plenty of life in it. I've gotten two uses out of a big batch of headstamp-sorted once-fired that I bought, and am about to start the 3rd use. No split necks, no loose primer pockets.

If you like leaving pennies on the ground, by all means don't pick it up. If I had a magical source of free brass like some folks apparently do I might be tempted. But don't think that you must, or that "everybody does it".

9 major needs to be shot once and forgotten. If you pick it up you will find lots of primers in the tumbler, and after a couple loading put a hand full of round in a plastic bag and shake them, you'd be suprised how many primers fall out.

Just isn't true.

[lcs]

Started with 9 Major cause I did not want to pick up brass. I have switched to 38SC, but only pickup brass at practice and local matches. Big matches are lost brass anyway.

You can make a 38S/SC shoot a hell-of-lot flatter than a 9. Why? You can put some big barrel holes in 38S and some of the powders that really produce a lot of gas with 115s will not make major in a 9.

I can shoot 38SC brass till the primers fall out. No way would I stress 9 major brass like that. 9 Major is a high pressure load and the brass is stressed more than 38SC.

This is personal preference and my testing. A 38SC gun can be configured to shoot a lot flatter than a 9 Major gun.

[CocoBolo]

9 Major brass has plenty of life in it. I've gotten two uses out of a big batch of headstamp-sorted once-fired that I bought, and am about to start the 3rd use. No split necks, no loose primer pockets.

If you like leaving pennies on the ground, by all means don't pick it up. If I had a magical source of free brass like some folks apparently do I might be tempted. But don't think that you must, or that "everybody does it".

9 major needs to be shot once and forgotten. If you pick it up you will find lots of primers in the tumbler, and after a couple loading put a hand full of round in a plastic bag and shake them, you'd be suprised how many primers fall out.

Just isn't true.

Actually I pay an average of $25.00 per 1000. Maybe you get two without issues but beyond that, use at your own risk.

Now ICS, my 9 majors shoot softer and flatter than many 38Super guns I have shot, its all about the overall system design with that including not only the components in the gun but the load as well. I've shot my 38SC brass more than 20 times, I use a casepro so they always drop check till they split. I don't like the holes for a number of reasons, but I've seen them work well, a perfect example is the Brazos ThunderComp II, and the 4 holes Bob puts in his guns. That Comp by itself well it won't get the job done, but with the holes it is an awesome combination in a full size gun. I think someone forgot that Shorty's are for minor, all of them are just plain violent in major..

[RiggerJJ]

If you are loosing primers in 9 major brass on the 2nd-3rd firing, then you are overpressure. I reuse mine until I loose it and have yet to have a primer fall out.

Its wierd seeing people write about leaving brass during a match. out in these parts when the scoring and stage resetting is being done the brass is being picked up as well. Everyone gets probably 95%+ of their brass back...if they don't want it, they give it to someone who does.

Maybe its because some ranges have thick mowed grass growing in the bays??? out here its all dirt...

jj

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I use my 9mm open brass till it splits or I lose it. I am up to 5 reloads on some of it and it still holds the primers. I must say that using a Case Pro may help it last longer since it does not shorten the brass like the sizer die does by itself. We pickup brass after every shooter so I get back 95% of it. Thanks, Eric

[bassochist]

i use my 9mm brass about 6 to 7 times, and after that i load it one more time and leave it at a match, i even have batch of 1000 pieces, that's been loaded more than 15 times to major, and still there are no primers falling out.

also my 9mm shorty open gun shoots flatter than my full size open .38super gun, there's no need to put holes in the barrel, with a 9major.

[CocoBolo]

Hello: I use my 9mm open brass till it splits or I lose it. I am up to 5 reloads on some of it and it still holds the primers. I must say that using a Case Pro may help it last longer since it does not shorten the brass like the sizer die does by itself. We pickup brass after every shooter so I get back 95% of it. Thanks, Eric

ERIC - Be honest now are you using mixed head stamp range brass that includes stuff like S&B, WCC, GECO and others? If I went to the trouble to sort head stamps I would probably run them a few times, but all mixed up they just get one time, provided the magnet doesn't get them.

If I have a lot of Noobs in my squad shooting factory 9 mm I'll pickup brass, their's and leave mine. The range owner sells it for Salvage.