Starting in Limited

[Iggy42]

I wil admit I am a huge 1911 fan, but here is my problem. I only have about 1000 and the only 1911 platform I can find is a Para 16-40. While they appear that they are not that bad for someone such as myself, the problem I have is that I would blow my budget on the gun leaving nothing for upgrades, mags, holsters etc etc etc. So that leaves me looking at the striker guns (M&Ps, Glocks, XD(m)s) but all I see is people running SV/STI guns.

So what I am wondering is are the 2011/1911 platforms that much better and should I try to hold out for one, or is it just a popularity thing where the top guys are running them so everyone that can scrape the cash together running them.

Don't get me wrong I would love to use a 1911/2011 gun but my budget is rather restrictive

Any thoughts?

[Joe4d]

they are that much better, and not much more than a Para by the time you do the upgrading, STI's for the most part use standard parts unlike Para's propriety extractor that really doesnt work with .40 to well. You can put together a decent Glock rig maybe a M&P but I dont think the 5.25 XDM's are out in 40 yet so I would wait. Your not gonna be happy with them just based on your first post. A lesson I finally learned after wasting probably thousands of dollars, It is way cheaper to save a little longer and get the gun you want the first time. I'd shoot a production gun or whatever you have now until you find a good deal, lots of good used STI's will hit the classified section about oct-nov time. Just start watching classified and a piece at a time gather up mags, pouches,holsters,

Other platforms can run but they usually will start you off with a handicap of somekind.

[Iggy42]

Yeah I currently shoot single stack with a stock SA, but since my ultimate goal is 3-gun I figured I would pick my pistol platform now since it will take me a bit to pick up the AR and the shotgun +plus extras. Least this way I would get plenty of trigger time with the pistol while I worked towards the rest of the stuff.

[MARKAVELI]

Buy once cry once... Get what you want, save if you need too.

[JakeMartens]

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/411545792

[MarkCO]

Yeah I currently shoot single stack with a stock SA, but since my ultimate goal is 3-gun I figured I would pick my pistol platform now since it will take me a bit to pick up the AR and the shotgun +plus extras. Least this way I would get plenty of trigger time with the pistol while I worked towards the rest of the stuff.

Since 3 gun is your ultimate goal, you will be better served with a Glock or M&P. TRY before you buy though. I run a G35 in USPSA Lim, Lim10 and 3Gun. I don't practice and I was able to make A class with it. I tried an STI for a few months and a Tanfo for a year and went back to Glocks. I have a fit Bar-Sto barrel and a very good trigger and I shoot my G35s better than the 2011 platforms due to fit.

For 3Gun Outlaw matches, 9mm is fine as there is no major/minor. Most paper targets are 1 A or 2 anywhere, but then we do shoot 4" steel plates at some matches. I've also drifted to 9mm in the Glock platform a few times, but keep going back to the .40 minor at about 145 PF. 2 loads and you are good to play in Limited Minor, Limited Major and 3Gun. The biggest benefit of the striker fird pistols in 3Gun is in dumping the gun. I've seen several people DQ'd for safeties coming off on 2011 platform guns, the Glock, just toss them in the barrel. Some guys drop mags and clear their 2011s, but even so, I've still seen DQs. 3Gun is rougher on your equipment than USPSA. Running through the forest, laying in dirt and maybe mud, etc. The Striker fired paltfoms have less maintenance and are less finicky.

However, if your heart is set on a 2011, then get one. Confidence is a bigger deal than the actual pistol in your hand.

[Iggy42]

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/411545792

Yeah I currently shoot single stack with a stock SA, but since my ultimate goal is 3-gun I figured I would pick my pistol platform now since it will take me a bit to pick up the AR and the shotgun +plus extras. Least this way I would get plenty of trigger time with the pistol while I worked towards the rest of the stuff.

Since 3 gun is your ultimate goal, you will be better served with a Glock or M&P. TRY before you buy though. I run a G35 in USPSA Lim, Lim10 and 3Gun. I don't practice and I was able to make A class with it. I tried an STI for a few months and a Tanfo for a year and went back to Glocks. I have a fit Bar-Sto barrel and a very good trigger and I shoot my G35s better than the 2011 platforms due to fit.

For 3Gun Outlaw matches, 9mm is fine as there is no major/minor. Most paper targets are 1 A or 2 anywhere, but then we do shoot 4" steel plates at some matches. I've also drifted to 9mm in the Glock platform a few times, but keep going back to the .40 minor at about 145 PF. 2 loads and you are good to play in Limited Minor, Limited Major and 3Gun. The biggest benefit of the striker fird pistols in 3Gun is in dumping the gun. I've seen several people DQ'd for safeties coming off on 2011 platform guns, the Glock, just toss them in the barrel. Some guys drop mags and clear their 2011s, but even so, I've still seen DQs. 3Gun is rougher on your equipment than USPSA. Running through the forest, laying in dirt and maybe mud, etc. The Striker fired paltfoms have less maintenance and are less finicky.

However, if your heart is set on a 2011, then get one. Confidence is a bigger deal than the actual pistol in your hand.

Before I bought my 1911 I owned a M&P40 (before the Pro's) and I have to admit I did not like it, hence why I sold for a 1911. I have had my eye on a XD(m) since the grips feel 1911ish to me, plus I have heard of people getting DQ'd in 3gun with 2011's because of the safeties. What is holding me up though is that I have not been able to find a XD(m) to actually shoot. I like the way it feels in hand (thinking about one as a CCW gun) but I may not like how it shoots. Plus it would make me feel somewhat of a hypocrite since I try to buy Made in the USA, but that just takes me back to a M&P unfortunately. All in all pretty frustrating in general admittedly mostly due to budget.

[warpspeed]

With that budget, buy a Glock or XD or M&P.

The gun will not hold you back.

[Roundguy]

Im shooting the M&P 40pro in limited now but im switching to the para i got used off another forum. The weight feels better to me. My M&P is nice but i like the feel of the para. I did get a chance to shoot a 2011 and would like to own one but the funds are not there at this time so the para was my second option i bought used and i got a pistol for a good price with some mods already done on it.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Depends, IMHO, on how good you are/going to be.

If you are like me (B/C shooter) - it probably

doesn't matter too much.

If you're really good - then IMHO, you need a

STI .40, or the other guns will interfere with

your progess.

Sounds like your budget might be a little light

for 3-gun? (Mine is also - so I shoot pistol only?)

Good luck,

Jack

[Scott Steele]

Try before you buy. Purchase what you can afford or willing to pay and put some funds into ammo so you can practice. Have fun on match day

[Sin-ster]

Some of the best Limited shooters I know run G35s. In fact, the two that have taught me the most (both Master Class) duke it out consistently with their mirror image Glocks.

It may not be your cup of tea, but don't count them out as an option-- especially if you're just getting started. At the very least, if you decide to go the 2011 route, the Glock can and will live forever as your backup.

[warpspeed]

I'm pretty sure Dave Sevigny made GM with a Glock. I know Taran Butler did.

There are probably over a hundred that have made M in USPSA and no doubt several hundred that have made A.

If I was on a budget, I'd get a Glock and use the savings to shoot more. Shooting $ 1200 worth of ammo with improve your skill far more than buying a STI. After a year or two, if your budget allows, get a STI or SV or whatever looks good.

[superdude]

Before I bought my 1911 I owned a M&P40 (before the Pro's) and I have to admit I did not like it, hence why I sold for a 1911. I have had my eye on a XD(m) since the grips feel 1911ish to me, plus I have heard of people getting DQ'd in 3gun with 2011's because of the safeties. What is holding me up though is that I have not been able to find a XD(m) to actually shoot. I like the way it feels in hand (thinking about one as a CCW gun) but I may not like how it shoots. Plus it would make me feel somewhat of a hypocrite since I try to buy Made in the USA, but that just takes me back to a M&P unfortunately. All in all pretty frustrating in general admittedly mostly due to budget.

people are getting DQ'd because they made an error. it has nothing to do with the gun, the safety or whatever.

pick a gun that is comfy, points naturally for you and has a nice trigger. if you're used to a 1911 then that might be the way to go, so you don;t have to "learn" another system. nothing can beat the trigger on a 1911 and you'll be forced to learn a different trigger if you switch. while many people are willing and able to do that it seems like a pointless exercise when you can choose to stay with the same platform (Para/STI). STI's in general have nothing practical over a Para. I've built and run both and can't see the obsession about the STI/SVI system, and they even have disadvantages in my view. you can't change the grips on a STI without modifying the frame. STI/SVIs cost more and are the cool thing to have, but that's about it. but those mean nothing. all that matters is the score on the target.

[Iggy42]

Before I bought my 1911 I owned a M&P40 (before the Pro's) and I have to admit I did not like it, hence why I sold for a 1911. I have had my eye on a XD(m) since the grips feel 1911ish to me, plus I have heard of people getting DQ'd in 3gun with 2011's because of the safeties. What is holding me up though is that I have not been able to find a XD(m) to actually shoot. I like the way it feels in hand (thinking about one as a CCW gun) but I may not like how it shoots. Plus it would make me feel somewhat of a hypocrite since I try to buy Made in the USA, but that just takes me back to a M&P unfortunately. All in all pretty frustrating in general admittedly mostly due to budget.

people are getting DQ'd because they made an error. it has nothing to do with the gun, the safety or whatever.

pick a gun that is comfy, points naturally for you and has a nice trigger. if you're used to a 1911 then that might be the way to go, so you don;t have to "learn" another system. nothing can beat the trigger on a 1911 and you'll be forced to learn a different trigger if you switch. while many people are willing and able to do that it seems like a pointless exercise when you can choose to stay with the same platform (Para/STI). STI's in general have nothing practical over a Para. I've built and run both and can't see the obsession about the STI/SVI system, and they even have disadvantages in my view. you can't change the grips on a STI without modifying the frame. STI/SVIs cost more and are the cool thing to have, but that's about it. but those mean nothing. all that matters is the score on the target.

My understanding is that the DQ's come from when people put their gun the box the safety gets bumped and ends up back in a "fire" position. I freely admit that my understanding of what is happening to some could be wrong since I am yet to participate in a 3-gun event. Way I look at it is that it would be one less thing for me to worry about.

[Hi-Power Jack]

I only have about $1,000 and the only 1911 platform I can find is a Para 16-40. While they appear that they are not that bad for someone such as myself, the problem I have is that I would blow my budget on the gun leaving nothing for upgrades, mags, holsters etc etc etc. So that leaves me looking at the striker guns (M&Ps, Glocks, XD(m)s) but all I see is people running SV/STI guns.

Have you considered running Production instead of Limited?

Should be a lot less costly.

Jack

[MarkCO]

people are getting DQ'd because they made an error. it has nothing to do with the gun, the safety or whatever.

Untrue. I have seen three occur in person within the last calendar year. Two were on carpeted trays where the gun slid and grabbed the safety moving it from on to off.

[jfrey]

Have you checked out the STI Spartan from Dawson Precision? For $628.00 you can do a lot of mods and still stay in your budget. I've read nothing but good about these guns. From what I understand, STI sends their internal parts to the Phillipines and the guns are assembled there. Then, they are sent back here and STI goes through them to assure a good product. The Spartan might be a good alternative to start with.

[JeffWard]

Shoot and M&P 40 Pro

$1040 total including 3 Taylor Freelance +5 Extensions and 2 extra mags.

With the Apex FSS trigger, you give up nothing to an STI, except for a few ounces.

Dawson Front sight

SSS Magwell

SSS Non-captured Rod

ISMI 13# spring

Apex Tactical FSS trigger

3 X Taylor Freelance Extensions w/ extra power spring.

2 X 15-round M&P 40 mags

SWEET running 40 Major Gun... $1040, including mags. No dicking around, no ammo pickiness... It shoots everything. Drop it in the mud, rinse it off in a puddle, and load up... It's an M&P.

Also great for 3-Gun! I chose a BladeTeck Black Ice DOH, and CR Speed Versa Pouches.

JeffWard

Edited September 4, 2011 by JeffWard

[superdude]

people are getting DQ'd because they made an error. it has nothing to do with the gun, the safety or whatever.

Untrue. I have seen three occur in person within the last calendar year. Two were on carpeted trays where the gun slid and grabbed the safety moving it from on to off.

when does this happen? specifically, is it happening all by itself when the gun is not being touched like it's possessed by evil demons? when the person is putting it in the box/on the carpet? when they are grabbing it?

[superdude]

My understanding is that the DQ's come from when people put their gun the box the safety gets bumped and ends up back in a "fire" position. I freely admit that my understanding of what is happening to some could be wrong since I am yet to participate in a 3-gun event. Way I look at it is that it would be one less thing for me to worry about.

the operator is responsible for control of the gun. he/she is responsible for making sure they comply with the rules. if they're not paying attention to the details, then they get DQ'd.

some folks have their safety set up with an ultra-light spring, and one i've seen acted as if it had no spring tension because it flopped all around. this is unsafe. some people try to "game" their guns to the extreme.

[Iggy42]

I only have about $1,000 and the only 1911 platform I can find is a Para 16-40. While they appear that they are not that bad for someone such as myself, the problem I have is that I would blow my budget on the gun leaving nothing for upgrades, mags, holsters etc etc etc. So that leaves me looking at the striker guns (M&Ps, Glocks, XD(m)s) but all I see is people running SV/STI guns.

Have you considered running Production instead of Limited?

Should be a lot less costly.

Jack

I have, but I plan (when I get the funds) to shoot Tac Optics in 3-gun. My understanding of the rules means I can run a Limited division pistol so I figured I might as well try to get one up and running. Not to mention needed to reload less often does appeal to me. Since I am currently a SS guy it would be nice to not need to reload nearly as often.

Since all I am hearing is M&P and Glock, any reason for no XD fans? I have not heard of reliability issues with them, but am I missing something?

[Wilfred]

I think the new the Springfield Armory XDm 5.25 9mm is an awesome gun

Edited September 4, 2011 by Wilfred

[Iggy42]

I think the new the Springfield Armory XDm 5.25 9mm is an awesome gun

So I keep hearing, but I need at least .40 for major scoring. I would love a 5.25 in .40 but no clue if/when they will come out. Be sweet if they did before the free mag promotion was over.

[rexican]

Someone might have already mentioned it, but the magazines and accessories for the 2011 platform are usually quite a bit more expensive than something that is more common. I switched from g35 to dawson 2011 after funds allowed, but it was a slow process. by the time you add up the cost of a magazine body, grams spring and follower, and dawson base pad for each mag, it's quite an investment.

I started off while I was still in school with a G35, some sevigny sights, and a ghost rocket trigger. mags and holster included, all for under $700. I still shoot my glock regularly... and it goes with me a lot of places I would never take my Dawson.