AR on a Budget

[Iggy42]

Since 3-gun is my ultimate goal I am trying to figure out what to get for my first AR. I am new to ARs so I am unsure what all I need to look for in a gun. I am not against building one myself (escpecially if I can get more bang for my buck) if it is someone a guy like myself can do provided I have all the parts.

Will be some time before I make the purchase (about to by my fist Limited gun, still need the mags and such) but I would like to try to start educating myself now so that when I finally have the cash I don't get the wrong thing.

Thanks for the help

[Brian Payne]

Give JP a call, talk guns for a while, then order a JP-15 with whatever options they recommend. That is what I did and I have no regrets.

[dmshozer1]

Give JP a call, talk guns for a while, then order a JP-15 with whatever options they recommend. That is what I did and I have no regrets.

Great gun but the man said he is on a budget!

[Dan Sierpina]

Give Jim Lambert at Firebird Precision a call. Jim not only builds great rifles, but, he's also inovative with refinements for the AR, Saiga and now the Akdal shotgun.

[dab]

Try out other shooter's ARs and get a feel for the different triggers, grips, barrel lengths, etc. Then you can start making your parts list and go from there. There's also an article in the latest American Rifleman about building a 3-gun AR.

[Graham Smith]

If you are on a budget, then start by learning as much as you can about your component options. There are hundreds of threads here on this, so research them as a start. You will probably want an 18" barrel, but other than that, your choices are pretty much open.

If you are going to build one yourself, then start by checking local dealers to see if you can get a decent stripped lower from them. You'll spend less than buying one elsewhere and having to pay shipping and transfer fees. After that, everything you need can be ordered by mail. Just pick out a few options and watch for sales. I built my AR over a 4 month period and got almost everything on sale.

Lastly, I get flack every time I say this, but you don't have to buy the very best there is when you are just starting out. There are inexpensive (not cheap) options available that don't cost a fortune.

HINT...

I just noticed that someone has a really sweet Firebird M4 for sale in the classified section for a great price. You could do a heck of a lot worse for more money. It would make a really nice start for you. If I were in the market, it wouldn't still be there.

Edited August 25, 2011 by Graham Smith

[StealthyBlagga]

You need to give us a feel for your target budget to get a good answer. The good news about the AR15 platform is that it is very modular - if the underlying rifle is solid, you can upgrade piecemeal as you accrue experience and cash. For a guy on a budget, I would suggest avoiding a fancy custom rifle right out of the gate. You can buy or build a perfectly serviceable plain vanilla 20" barreled AR15 A3 (flat top) rifle for as little as $600, take it out and win your local match if you do your part. I suggest you avoid the common M4 carbine style rifles out there (16" barrel, carbine gas system, short sight radius) as this is a sub-optimal base platform for 3-gun.

As funds allow, you can incorporate the following upgrades in this order:

1) A good muzzle brake. For the money, the DPMS Miculek brake ($40) is the hands down winner. Others may be slightly better but a lot more expensive. You can install this easily yourself.

2) A free float handguard. No need for any of the fancy tactical rail nonsense - just a plain old tube ($40-100) that free floats the barrel. This will let you rest the forend on walls without impacting long-range accuracy. You need special tools to install this, so you might want to have a gunsmith do so.

3) A good match trigger. The JP is the best IMHO ($140). Fiddly to install, but very doable if you are OK with your hands and have access to basic tools.

After the above three modifications, everything else is frosting. You can spend a LOT more money, but the above will give you by far the biggest bang for your buck.

I have not touched on optics. Your choice here depends on which division you want to shoot. Cheapest is Tactical Limited, in which you can shoot competitively with iron sights. Later on, as budget permits, you can look at a red dot (still Tac Limited) or a magnified scope (Tac Scope or Open).

As for other minor accessories, you need:

i) Magazines. Get several 30-round GI or PMAGs, a few 40 round C-Products mags (if you can find them) and maybe one more higher capacity mag (PMAG + Nordic extension = 48 rounds, or 2 x PMAGs + CCW coupler = 60 rounds).

ii) Mag pouches. Best value IMHO is the BladeTek molded unit with TekLok belt attachment ($20).

iii) Ammo. This will be a significant expenditure, so reload or buy in bulk. 55 grain FMJ will be quite adequate for 99% of applications.

Good luck and welcome to the 3-gun addiction

Edited August 25, 2011 by StealthyBlagga

[krdshrk]

I built my AR for under $700 (before optics) with some pretty decent parts. Used a Spikes stripped lower, Palmetto State Armory MOE Lower Build Kit, and an upper from JSE Surplus. Good shooter for a pretty low budget!

[Iggy42]

Thanks all

My general plan was to get a decent gun for around 1k if I can swing it and then upgrade to better as my budget allowed. For the uneducated like me I noticed no one mentioned just getting an complete rifle from one of the makers (Stag, S&W, RRA, etc.) Any reason for this?

I will admit I have no clue when I can even start getting funds together, but I am hoping sooner than later but these days who knows.

[J-Ho]

We all have our favorites and I would would recommend a Firebird. But in all honesty for a real budget rifle you could go with one of the major manufacturers and be fine for a while. That is the brilliance or the AR platform. You can replace the trigger when you get the funds. Then replace the comp. Then the barrel and upper. Then the bolt carrier and bolt. That's kind of the route I took and by the time I was done I had an almost complete rifle just laying around. I bought a new lower and put it together and sold it.

[MickB]

For a $1K budget, look at the DPMS 3G1...

Mick

[Graham Smith]

My general plan was to get a decent gun for around 1k if I can swing it and then upgrade to better as my budget allowed. For the uneducated like me I noticed no one mentioned just getting an complete rifle from one of the makers (Stag, S&W, RRA, etc.) Any reason for this?

You can generally get more gun for less money if you buy it a piece at a time because you can shop around for bargains, also, you can get something more tailored to your wants.

But, as I said before, don't overlook complete guns for sale in the classifieds. There are a lot of bargains to be had from people who are getting rid of excess gear or upgrading.

BTW, if you are going to be shooting with a scope, does your budget include that?

[BigBets]

If you are only shooting local matches a regular steel barrel may be just fine. If you plan on bigger matches with more distance (over 200 yds) I believe money is best spent on free float handguard, decent stainless barrel, and trigger. Other than scope the rest is all for minor competitve advantages which you can worry about when you skill level dictates those minor competitive advantages can be seen.

Bets

[NoahK]

Take a look over at surplus ammo and arms (surplusammo.com). They have top quality parts, assembled into very affordable builds

May help save some money for the optics/mags/upgrades and ammo

Sent from my BlackBerry using Tapatalk

[Iggy42]

My general plan was to get a decent gun for around 1k if I can swing it and then upgrade to better as my budget allowed. For the uneducated like me I noticed no one mentioned just getting an complete rifle from one of the makers (Stag, S&W, RRA, etc.) Any reason for this?

You can generally get more gun for less money if you buy it a piece at a time because you can shop around for bargains, also, you can get something more tailored to your wants.

But, as I said before, don't overlook complete guns for sale in the classifieds. There are a lot of bargains to be had from people who are getting rid of excess gear or upgrading.

BTW, if you are going to be shooting with a scope, does your budget include that?

At the moment no, I was leaning toward Tac Irons to start then moving to Tac Optics later. That is if I understand the rules for the divisions correctly, I am still new to this and learning as I go.

[Vespid_Wasp]

Here is what I came up with for myself this spring:

This wasn't a pure budget build but I did try to avoid spending money on anything that wasn't absolutely necessary.

Here is what I came up with:

BCM SAM-R 20 inch barrel (1:8 twist, MP HPT, 410 stainless)

complete blemished BCM upper

JP lightweight bolt carrier

buffer lightened to JP weight (3 weights replaced with delrin spacers)

LMT A2 rear sight

JP low profile adjustable gas block

JP Bennie Cooley compensator

DPMS front sight base (still experimenting with a variety of front sight posts/apertures)

DPMS free float tube

GI take-off A1 stock (had an A2 on it, it was too long)

BCM MP,HPT bolt

stock trigger worked over by Ryan Zamberlan

BCM gunfighter charging handle (medium latch)

I used an inexpensive stock and handguard, bought a blemished upper for half price, and bought a used but like new rear sight for half price.

If I was trying to go even less expensive I would have used a DPMS MK12 barrel and a Miculek comp. I was pretty set on wanting the JP carrier and adjustable gas block. I think I have less than $800 in the whole rifle.

It shoots great, and shoots FLAT due to the comp and the lightened BCG. The relatively heavy barrel contour doesn't hurt either. Initially I thought it was too heavy, but the more I shoot it, the more I like it.

Edited August 28, 2011 by Vespid_Wasp

[StealthyBlagga]

...I was leaning toward Tac Irons to start then moving to Tac Optics later. That is if I understand the rules for the divisions correctly, I am still new to this and learning as I go.

In this case you definitely want a 20" rifle for the longer sight radius. A barrel with a regular GI front sight base will work well - not quite as long as with a muzzle-mounted base, but much cheaper and IMHO more robust. Just slim down the front sight post for finer resolution. Even if you are only shooting irons now, you should still get a flat top upper receiver. Bolt on A2-style rear sights like the excellent unit from DPMS are cheap, and you will be able to add optics later as budget permits.

You can buy a complete rifle in the above format from many quality rifle manufacturers, or you can build your own. Building is VERY easy, especially if you buy the upper pre-assembled or even an entire rifle kit. Building saves you some $$$ because you are not paying taxes on the complete rifle(Federal exise tax + local sales tax) plus you can build what you want right out of the gate. For example, you could order the assembled barrelled upper with a basic free float tube pre-installed for only about a $20 upcharge, saving you the cost and hassle of installing one later.

[Iggy42]

...I was leaning toward Tac Irons to start then moving to Tac Optics later. That is if I understand the rules for the divisions correctly, I am still new to this and learning as I go.

In this case you definitely want a 20" rifle for the longer sight radius. A barrel with a regular GI front sight base will work well - not quite as long as with a muzzle-mounted base, but much cheaper and IMHO more robust. Just slim down the front sight post for finer resolution. Even if you are only shooting irons now, you should still get a flat top upper receiver. Bolt on A2-style rear sights like the excellent unit from DPMS are cheap, and you will be able to add optics later as budget permits.

You can buy a complete rifle in the above format from many quality rifle manufacturers, or you can build your own. Building is VERY easy, especially if you buy the upper pre-assembled or even an entire rifle kit. Building saves you some $$$ because you are not paying taxes on the complete rifle(Federal exise tax + local sales tax) plus you can build what you want right out of the gate. For example, you could order the assembled barrelled upper with a basic free float tube pre-installed for only about a $20 upcharge, saving you the cost and hassle of installing one later.

Alrighty, well if I part out it there any preferred place? I have heard of Spikes Tactical, but there has to be others that this community uses.

[jn_fsu]

Take a look at this upper by Loki Weapon Systems. http://www.lokiweaponsystems.com/products/forged-upper-sdmr/ Erik and Aaron are really great guys! They helped me with my recient build though it's not for 3 gun...

[CocoBolo]

I'm not a big dog daddy 3-Gunner but I shoot one time to time, I think everyone needs a good carbine and it is a good way to start. Here is one of the best deals I've seen:

http://www.class3weapons.com/Rock_River_Arms_Elite_Operator_2_p/11446301.htm

My personal 3-Gun machine is a Sabre Defense 18", a top end I bought here on the Forum and a RRA National match lower I got from Class3Weapons.com, put together for $1000, amazingly accurate. It replaced a Bushmaster that I ruined using cheap Wolf BiMetal ammo aka Serbian Monarch. Shoot real copper jacketed bullets.

[StealthyBlagga]

Alrighty, well if I part out it there any preferred place? I have heard of Spikes Tactical, but there has to be others that this community uses.

OK, I am gonna catch a lot of crap for this suggestion. I want to emphasize that this is absolutely lowest budget option to consider, assuming you want to buy a barreled upper (i.e don't want to invest in specialty AR15 building tools). My first 3-gun upper came from Model 1 Sales, and it was exactly as specified in the screenshot below:

For sure Model 1 does not have a reputation as a top tier manufacturer, but they do sell functional parts at a budget price. The example above is a barreled upper only (no bolt/bolt carrier/charging handle/lower assembly), so there is not too much for Model 1 to screw up. They use E R Shaw barrels, which in my experience are exceptional values... mine always shot nice tight groups and gave me many years of loyal service. The upper I propose has a free float tube installed so you won't have to pay to install one later. The rifle-length gas system and GI front sight base give you a good starting point for shooting tactical iron division - just slim down the front sight post with a file, or buy a National Match front sight post (cheap). The muzzle is threaded, so just unscrew the flash hider and install the muzzle brake of your choice. Lastly, you will need to buy a bolt/carrier assembly and charging handle (buy quality here - Spikes, Bravo Company etc.) and the lower (a stripped lower plus a DPMS lower parts kit and the stock of your choice).

Again, this is a BUDGET build. As you get more into 3-gun, I'm sure you will want to upgrade your rifle as funds allow, but I would rather you start enjoying the sport now than have to wait a year while you save up funds to buy a super-duper top-tier custom rifle that you probably won't be able to fully exploit in the beginning anyway. This build will give you a good solid foundation for probably less than $750 total investment. I hope this is helpful in pointing you in the right direction.

Edited August 29, 2011 by StealthyBlagga

[J-Ho]

Alrighty, well if I part out it there any preferred place? I have heard of Spikes Tactical, but there has to be others that this community uses.

OK, I am gonna catch a lot of crap for this suggestion. I want to emphasize that this is absolutely lowest budget option to consider, assuming you want to buy a barreled upper (i.e don't want to invest in specialty AR15 building tools). My first 3-gun upper came from Model 1 Sales, and it was exactly as specified in the screenshot below:

For sure Model 1 does not have a reputation as a top tier manufacturer, but they do sell functional parts at a budget price. The example above is a barreled upper only (no bolt/bolt carrier/charging handle/lower assembly), so there is not too much for Model 1 to screw up. They use E R Shaw barrels, which in my experience are exceptional values... mine always shot nice tight groups and gave me many years of loyal service. The upper I propose has a free float tube installed so you won't have to pay to install one later. The rifle-length gas system and GI front sight base give you a good starting point for shooting tactical iron division - just slim down the front sight post with a file, or buy a National Match front sight post (cheap). The muzzle is threaded, so just unscrew the flash hider and install the muzzle brake of your choice. Lastly, you will need to buy a bolt/carrier assembly and charging handle (buy quality here - Spikes, Bravo Company etc.) and the lower (a stripped lower plus a DPMS lower parts kit and the stock of your choice).

Again, this is a BUDGET build. As you get more into 3-gun, I'm sure you will want to upgrade your rifle as funds allow, but I would rather you start enjoying the sport now than have to wait a year while you save up funds to buy a super-duper top-tier custom rifle that you probably won't be able to fully exploit in the beginning anyway. This build will give you a good solid foundation for probably less than $750 total investment. I hope this is helpful in pointing you in the right direction.

I'm not going to give you crap on this one. If you are looking to get in the game, this is a great idea. If it turns out it's not for you, you aren't out several grand. If you get hooked and like to feed your addiction, chances are you'll upgrade. Then start looking at high end manufacturers.

[jn_fsu]

Well heres another option along the same lines. A Palmetto State Armory 20" 5.56 NATO FN Upper minus the BCG comes to $349. Then he could select the BCG, rear sight and an inexpensive free float rail/handguard of his choice. http://palmettostatearmory.com/2411.php

[Charles Bond]

Friends do not let friends buy anything from Model 1 Sales.

[StealthyBlagga]

Well heres another option along the same lines. A Palmetto State Armory 20" 5.56 NATO FN Upper minus the BCG comes to $349. Then he could select the BCG, rear sight and an inexpensive free float rail/handguard of his choice. http://palmettostatearmory.com/2411.php

Those are nice uppers. The only concern I have with military barrels is that you roll the dice on whether their fast 1:7 twist is going to shoot 55 grain loads accurately. Usually I try to stick with 1:8 or 1:9.

Friends do not let friends buy anything from Model 1 Sales.

Thanks for your glib response. I would not recommend buying the critical internals (bolt, FCG etc.) from Model 1, but in my experience they do an OK job on basic upper assemblies. If you disagree, perhaps you would be so kind as to offer a constructive suggestion for where this gentleman can buy a custom-configured, 3-gun optimized upper at a budget price ? This was his question, and I am trying to help the man.

Edited August 30, 2011 by StealthyBlagga