jn_fsu

Look at Apex Machining... http://www.apexhandguard.com/store.php?seller=ApexMachiningCompany&navt1=19974&navt2=20383&pd=2271628#images

Thanks the rifle belongs to guy on sniperhide that's how I knew of the videos. He used PRZI match 75gr HBPT for the 600 yard target. The 773 yard target he states he used MK262 and XM856(Tracers) ammo. Barrel is LMT MRP (Mike Rock) 10.5" CL 1/7 5.56 w/ Battlecomp BAC 2.0 .

Not sure how much energy there is at point of impact but here is a couple of cool videos of a guy tagging steel at 600 and 773 yards out of a 10.5" barreled rifle. I think he was using 75gr though...

I know I'm not on par for the typical 3 gun topic but I figured if ANY one has tried these scopes out it would be people on this forum. My intention for this scope is NOT 3 gun but a 300 Blackout QCB rifle/ PIG gun. I have other scopes in mind like Burris Mtac 1-4x and Millett DMS 1-4x or possibly an Aimpoint. What I'm looking for is experience with or input on and or comparisons verse other similiar scopes these two mentioned below. The first scope is a Mueller Speed Shot 1-4x 24mm Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 1/2 MOA Adjustments Illuminated 4 MOA Dot Reticle Matte http://www.midwayusa.com/product/187870/mueller-speed-shot-1-4x-24mm-rifle-scope-30mm-tube-1-2-moa-adjustments-illuminated-4-moa-dot-reticle-matte The second scope is aBresser True View Konig Rifle Scope 1-4x 24mm Illuminated Mil-Dot Reticle Matte http://www.midwayusa.com/product/814209/bresser-true-view-konig-rifle-scope-1-4x-24mm-illuminated-mil-dot-reticle-matte . I appreciate any input I can get.

That is INSANE! Glad your ok!

I've heard of them. Found them when reading an article in the magazine Special Weapons for Military and Police about Spikes Biohazard EDW 6.8mm covert entry carbine. The writer states that according to Tom (Spikes CEO or was at the time)that Ballistic Advantage turn all of Spikes Tactical custom barrels.

Thanks for all the input everyone! My strive for getting in competitive shooting last year stalled out... (more rifles, another car, etc...) I caught a bad case of the BRD ( Black Rifle Disease) and began building another rifle while finishing up my first one. Which I did complete and started another build (300 Blackout) thats not done yet. I kept my second rifle pretty simple and I'm going to use it for my Iron shooting and hopefully some carbine/tactical classes. My original rifle build I added a Leupold Mark AR 3-9x40mm (mil-Dot)to work on some distance shooting and as a learning tool. I still intend to get a 1-4x (or variant)for competitive shooting down the road. The Burris MTac just keeps calling to me for some reason. This years goal is get out and shoot more! Practice! Practice! Practice! Oh and do some learning in the process.

Pics not showing for me. So I'm going out on a limb... Would it be this one... http://www.egwguns.com/space-compensators/ar-space-race-comps-pre-bored/

I love my RRA 2 stage National Match trigger! I added the Tubb Precision AR-15 Natl Match CS Trigger/Hammer spring set to mine. Smooths the pull out so nice. Very nice addition for $17.95. Here is a link http://www.davidtubb.com/ar-15-natl-match-cs-trig-hamr-spring-set Here is the product description straight from the website. " All the features of the Tubb Precision CS AR-15 Hammer and Trigger Return spring set plus an ingenious means toward attaining an improved first stage pull weight in aftermarket two-stage triggers. The Tubb Precision CS AR-15 "National Match" Trigger Return Spring provides an easy means to boost first stage weight, which makes it possible to lower second stage break weight, and easily stay within the 4-1/2 pound minimum for Service Rifle competition. Plus, as with all Tubb Precision CS Springs, you are ensured of trigger pull weight consistency, a critical factor for major events. Hammer Spring is included."

No problem your welcome.

I'm guessing he was stating the Loki rifle configuration weight total is 6-6.5lbs and that it would be lighter then the JP rifle. Not its 6-6.5lbs lighter then the JP rifle...

I haven't started in three gun yet but I follow it thru this forum with hopes of one day starting... Alot of people on here run JP stuff but I have no personal experience with them. I do however have experience with Loki Weapon Systems. I had them build a custom 14.5" barreled upper with a pinned comp. Erik the owner of Loki is a terrific person with outstanding customer service. He worked with me every step of the way with my build giving me suggestions when I couldn't figure out certain parts of the build. When questions came up he personally called and we worked them thru. Aaron his gun smith did an awesome job with assembling my build and pinning the comp. I spent alot of time looking for someone who would allow me to send what ever parts I wanted to build my 14.5" with out having to use the parts they offered. They were also extremely fair in there pricing! I liked the service and product I received so much they are now working on another build for me. A 16" ACC 300 Blackout KISS light weight build which they are helping me design. At this point I'm looking at a 16" rifle that should weigh in around 5.5-6lbs. Light weight, maneurverable and hard hitting. I vote for Loki and I don't feel you would be dissappointed at all. Just thought I'd share my personal experience. Good luck on your choice!

Loki sells a really good product at a very reasonable price. Erik is a great guy and helped me thru out my build every step of the way. Aaron the gunsmith did an awesome job on my upper. I wanted a 14.5" barreled rifle for my fun gun. I also wanted to use my own compensator and handguard verses what most companies offer from there inventory. I contacted Erik and they had no problem with me sending my parts to them and installing them while adjusting the price of the build accordingly with me supplying some of my own parts. I'm fully enjoying this build. Before I had a chance to zero my irons I went on a trip to visit a friend. My buddy, his son, his buddy and I all went the range. We didn't have a spotter scope with us to due a zeroing so we just shot it as was. Had no problem constantly pinging the steel at 100 yards from standing position. My buddies son and his buddy had never shot a rifle before and still had no problem constantly hitting the steel at 100 yards. We set a monster energy drink can on the ground at 100 yards and still managed to hit it also. I can wait for my next trip were I can zero the Irons and really see what kind of grouping I can get. We were shooting plan ole wally world value pack .223 ammo to boot. Here are a few pics of the upper...

Ok is the scope review on the Leupold VX-R 1.25-4x20 or the Leupold VX-R Patrol Tactical 1.25-4x20 ? Two different beasts, different reticles,different sensors and different prices. The VX-R is about $450, has a fireDot circle recticle and vibration sensor. The VX-R Patrol is about $580, has a fireDot SPR recticle and motion sensor.

I'm glad you did this review. I've been considering the 2-7x33 VX-R for my DMR style rifle. Not for 3 gun! I was looking for something out to 500 that I could shoot groups at around 300 yards. But I'm thinking I'll need a 3-9x for that not really sure I don't really have any experience with optics. How far do you think you could group consistantly with the 1.25-4x ?

I have a few questions... If your shooting a high volume of rounds, which increasingly heats the barrel, which increasingly heats the handguard/rail, so hot you can't touch it. Then why would you want to trap even more heat around your barrel by cutting off what little ventilation it has by wraping anything completely around it? Doesn't the barrel typically begin to lose accuracy as it heats up? If the gas tube heats up, then the gas inside the tube will heat up, changing it's density correct? So would that not effect cycling on some rifles that may not be perfectly tuned or are finicky? Or am I thinking of this all wrong? I guess if your shooting close distances it won't matter as much but if your stage switches out to long distance wouldn't accuracy come into play? Or are the targets that big that accuracy is more minimal then I'm thinking it is for 3 gun? Just trying to make sure I understand all this I'm still fairly new to rifles. Don't hate, educate...please.

Just a heads up if this one is being considered it just went on sale for labor day weekend for $319 with out BCG...

Well heres another option along the same lines. A Palmetto State Armory 20" 5.56 NATO FN Upper minus the BCG comes to $349. Then he could select the BCG, rear sight and an inexpensive free float rail/handguard of his choice. http://palmettostatearmory.com/2411.php

Take a look at this upper by Loki Weapon Systems. http://www.lokiweaponsystems.com/products/forged-upper-sdmr/ Erik and Aaron are really great guys! They helped me with my recient build though it's not for 3 gun...

OK I've seen "true 1x" posted several times in other posts. What exactly does that mean? Also how do you know whos glass is better then another?

I actually pulled almost all my current information from snipers hide. I didn't know the glass can work better for you then magnification. I got very few responses to my post on sniper hide...

I should have mentioned this is specifically for 300-600 yards. I have another rifle for 300 and less. I've pretty much ruled out 1-4x and thinking a 2-7(8)x, 3-9x or even a 2.5-(?)x would be more appropriate. Yes this set up is not ideal for 3 gun but I'm sure many have tried several different aspects of shooting and have knowledge that can help. Thats why I hesitated to ask . I didn't want to intrude, but I really would like some help. I'm asking for optic distance help rather the 3 gun but couldn't figure out where else on the forum I should ask... Precision shooting?

6 months back I completed my first rifle build. Until that point I have never owned a rifle and had very little experience. I spent roughly 6 months picking apart forums,threads, articles and reviews. I concluded I wanted to build my lower myself, which I did and selected an upper based on my budget to create a DMR style rifle. Part of the way thru my build I started thinking about 3 gun. But I concluded at this point it's just not possible/affordable yet. I know this is all about 3 gun but I really need help and was hoping you guys could and or would. Part of my train of thought was/is who would have more knowledge then the guys who have been/are picking apart equipment on a constant basis , many of you for years, in the quest to build/create the most affective fire arm(s) possible. This build was/is intended as a learning tool as is the optics I choose to start with. So I hope I'm not intruding. I've been a member for a while reading and digesting information from you guys on a daily basis. Could you please take a little time to share some of your knowledge and experience with me on some of the optics you use or have used in order to help me narrow down where and what to to start with. I tried irons to begin with, but with my bad eyes, I concluded I need the assistance of optics. During my building of this rifle I failed to look into the optics side which I'm now doing... I hope to one day compete in 3 gun maybe even with this rifle at an entry level. But i think this will end up being a rifle I practice and learn from in order to build a strong competitive rifle in the future. Thanks for atleast taking the time to read thru my post. My Rifle Overview: Lower- Mega forged lower receiver CMMG LPK (swapped out fire control group) RRA 2 Stage National Match Trigger/Hammer Set Superior Shooting Systems National Match Spring Set KNS Anti Roll Pin Set Primary Weapons Systems Enhanced Buffer Tube Standard Mil-Spec Buffer Spring Spikes T2 Heavy Buffer MagPul MOE Grip and Stock (with .70 Butt Pad) Upper- (BCM Upper Receiver Group) BCM 16" SS410 Barrel (with A2 FSP) 1/8 twist National Match (USMC SAMR) Chambering Troy 9" Extreme rail Rainier Arms XTC Compensator/Flash Hider BCM/JTR BCG BCM Gunfighter Charging Handle Troy DOA Flip Up Rear Sight MagPul AFG Now I would like to add optics. Which I have even less experience with. After picking thru several threads on the over all aspects and workings of a scope/optics. I then moved onto the ones pertaining to matching a scope to the rifle and the distances I would be shooting. Ideally I would like to be able to shoot effectively out to 600 yards. Realistically most of my shooting, range facility limited, will be out to 300 yards on a regular basis. I would like a scope that would not only allow me to shoot nice groups at 300 yards but would also easily transition to and engage multiple targets. I'm honestly not sure how realistic these goals are based on my budget and optics out there. But I would like your help finding the closest optic that would allow me maximize my rifles ability while commingling my goals and stay with in my budget. I would like to stick with in my optimal budget of $300-400, after doing some serious reading,I'm willing to almost double it, now to $600ish, if it's neccesary. My budget does not include my mount, that has it's own budget. I may be trying to bite off more then I can chew at first. I'm willing to comprimise if need be. My first thought is to learn how to properly use an optic period. I would preffer a simple "quality" optic over a fancier cheaper optic with mind set of learning and growing as a shooter. I'm open to any suggestions on where to begin or what to begin with? I have accumulated a list optics that seem to fall with in the suggested guidelines of rifle, shooting distances, and budget. I used these these threads to help me pick optics that should match my rifle and it's ability. http://www.shootingvoodoo.com/index.php/articles/practical_optics_selection/ and http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1938091#Post193 8091 I'm always open to options and suggestions this is about learning for me. Optics list I've come up with so far.(created from SWFA site) Leatherwood 1-4x24 CMR Tactical 30mm Rifle Scope Kit http://swfa.com/Leatherwood-1-4x24-CMR-Tactical-30mm-Rifle-Scope-Kit-P47565.aspx Leupold 3-9x40 Mark AR Riflescope http://swfa.com/Leupold-3-9x40-Mark-AR-Riflescope-P40553.aspx Millett 1-4x24 DMS Tactical 30mm Riflescope http://swfa.com/Millett-1-4x24-DMS-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P48504.aspx Nikon 1-4x20 M223 Riflescope Kit http://swfa.com/Nikon-1-4x20-M223-Riflescope-Kit-P47976.aspx Vortex 1-4x24 Viper PST 30mm Rifle Scope http://swfa.com/Vortex-1-4x24-Viper-PST-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P44570.aspx Vortex 1-4x24 Viper HS 30mm Rifle Scope http://swfa.com/Vortex-1-4x24-Viper-HS-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P48290.aspx SWFA SS 3-9x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescope http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-3-9x42-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P41044.aspx Weaver 1-5x24 Tactical 30mm Rifle Scope http://swfa.com/Weaver-1-5x24-Tactical-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P49447.aspx Leupold 1.5-5x20 Mark 4 MR/T Riflescope http://swfa.com/Leupold-15-5x20-Mark-4-MRT-Riflescope-P3308.aspx Leupold 2-7x33 VX-R 30mm Riflescope http://swfa.com/Leupold-2-7x33-VX-R-30m ... 48035.aspx Leupold 3-9x40 VX-R 30mm Riflescope http://swfa.com/Leupold-3-9x40-VX-R-30m ... 48037.aspx Hawke 4.5-14x42 Sidewinder Tactical 30mm Riflescope http://swfa.com/Hawke-45-14x42-Sidewind ... 44553.aspx Hawke 1.5-6x44 Eclipse 30mm Riflescope http://swfa.com/Hawke-15-6x44-Eclipse-3 ... 41112.aspx Nikon 2-8x32 M223 Riflescope http://swfa.com/Nikon-2-8x32-M223-Rifle ... 45661.aspx Burris 1-4x24 Fullfield TAC 30 Tactical 30mm Rifle Scope http://swfa.com/Burris-1-4x24-Fullfield ... 48171.aspx GSRC 1-4x http://www.grscinc.com/CRS.html Right now I'm just accumulating a list then I'll begin sorting and dropping until I shorten it down. Then do some extensive research to make a final pick or atleast narrow it to two or three and go from there...

This is something I need to start doing myself! Side note TSA isn't all that bad. Every time I fly I carry my pistols and I took my AR this last trip too. You just have to take it as a checked bag in an acceptable case with proper locks. Ammo can also be taken in there stock boxes or other enclosed type containers that secure them properly. Most airlines allow up to 11 lbs of ammo to be transported. Besides part of the standard procedure is showing the person at the ticket counter your magazine(s) is not loaded and the chamber is clear in front of ALL the other passengers... Kinda amusing! Errr unless it's your first time... and your at Reagan International Airport at 5am with hundreds of other groggy people waiting to get there tickets... and it's your first time! I didn't know what to expect but it all went really smooth! Now I never worry about what I have to do to fly with my firearms any more. Just read the TSA guidelines and follow them. The airlines may have there own set of rules but so far I've found them all to be the same atleast with the ones I've flown with, Delta, Airtrain and Southwest. So don't let your travels interfere with your practice.

OK back from the range had a hell of a day! Besides shooting 3 different burst/full auto weapons I managed to fix my gas short stroking issue. I first tried the Carbine buffer with Superior Shooting Systems spring, the PWS Enhanced buffer tube and shots came out about 5 oclock. So I swapped out the Superior Shooting Systems spring for standard milspec spring with carbine buffer and PWS Enhanced buffer tube and shots came out at 2:30-3:00 oclock no slide lock. So I swapped out carbine buffer for the Spikes T2 and keep the standard milspec spring and PWS Enhanced buffer tube and first shot came out about 4 oclock then 3:30 for the remainder of the day with slide locking back every time. So my baby is running smoothly now! Thanks for all the information and help it paid off!