Neomet Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Okay, my search on using 147s and Clays with the search function gives the impression that the combination will either turn my 75 Shadow into the equivalent of an airsoft wunder-gun or an IED with Achmed the Terrorist sitting on the trigger. Any advice is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Vigilante Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 VV N320 is one of the preferred powders to use with 147g along with Solo 1000, WST, and a few others. I will let others speak about Clay's-I haven't tried it with 147g. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Service Desk Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Clays is way too quick for 147's, Universal Clays seems better or VV-N320 if you prefer a bit cleaner gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shotslow Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I use 6.3 gr of AA #7 with a 147 grain moly TC. I get a FPS of 992.1 for 5 shot average. Data for lead 147 bullets are scarce. The 47th Lyman manual has 9mm 147 gr data. It lists Clays at 1.8 min to 2.8 max for 147 gr lead. No listing for jacketed. I was looking for a powder for 357 sig, That's how I got to the AA #7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I tried it and hit the max and my gun still wouldn't cycle. The only published load I've seen is 2.7 grains MAX. It's not a safe load. Don't use it. Solo 1000 is similar in burn speed but single base, thus not subject to the pressure spikes and safer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 (edited) First lets be clear about this. THIS IS NOT A PUBLISHED LOAD AND IT MAY WELL NOT BE SAFE. I have run about 1,000 147gr Zero JHP's thru my CZ Shadow Custom Shop gun with no issues. Pay close attention to all details of the load. 1. I only load once fired brass and do not pick it up or attempt to reload it a second time. 2. The OAL is 1.145 long is ok but shorter and well you know, you are on your own. 3. I use Winchester Small Pistol Primers. 4. Zero 147gr JHP, Any other bullet by the same name is not the same it has to be a Zero JHP 147gr not a Precision Moly or what ever. 5. 3.2gr of Clays. Makes about 130 pf out of my Shadow. The load is soft shooting and it has very little recoil my gun has a well used 11# recoil spring and it cycles reliably and feels good. I have not done any accuracy testing with this load, shot a few matches and well without the dot I didn't do that well. Keep in mind I shoot 9 Major, pushing the limits and taking chances is nothing new for me. I advise caution. If you are new to reloading don't go there, if you a shooting an inferior tupperware gun with piddley short OAL don't do it. As always start low crono work up checking for pressure signs. Reloading has inheriently risks so use caution. Edited August 18, 2011 by CocoBolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neomet Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 (edited) Thanks guys. I don't think I have the appetite to go as far off the reservation as I would need to for 147s. I loaded some up with Solo and that is a dang nice load without the pucker factor. Edited August 18, 2011 by Neomet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parisite Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I have experimented a lot with Clays over the years and without going in to detail I will not use it at all in high pressure pistol calibers and do not recommend anybody else doing it. I only use what Clays I have left in 38 Spl. and 45acp., low pressure calibers. In this application Clays is a great powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Nukem Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 (edited) I use lead 147s with clays loaded out to 1.15 and have no pressure problems in 25k rounds. Warning it does tumble in some guns. Those same guns that tumble don't tumble with a slower powder and 147 lead. The clays and 147 load in a 1911 is the softest load ever. Edited August 21, 2011 by Duke Nukem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Can't speak for the 147's, but I have loaded quite a bit of Clays with 180's in .40...Very soft...Around 3.0 - 3.2 1.125 (IIRC) TC lead bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooter57 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I use lead 147s with clays loaded out to 1.15 and have no pressure problems in 25k rounds. Warning it does tumble in some guns. Those same guns that tumble don't tumble with a slower powder and 147 lead. The clays and 147 load in a 1911 is the softest load ever. and how many grains of clays are you using ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Nukem Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 The lyman manual shows 2.8 as max but they list the OAl at 1.058. I load it out to 1.15 and use 2.9 grains. and how many grains of clays are you using ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlp40cal Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 clays moly 147 1.140 2.9 grs will run 900 ftps soft load after 15 to 20 feet group problems run glock 34 kkm barrel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Service Desk Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I have experimented a lot with Clays over the years and without going in to detail I will not use it at all in high pressure pistol calibers and do not recommend anybody else doing it. I only use what Clays I have left in 38 Spl. and 45acp., low pressure calibers. In this application Clays is a great powder. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcracco Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Why is it that Clays is said to be too fast burning for 147's in the 9mm but people recommend as alternatives N320 (right next to Clays on chart), Titegroup (faster), and Solo 1000 (faster yet)? I have been shooting 147's for a while with Clays and while they are soft and accurate enough for IDPA I think they are traveling a bit too slow. Rather than pushing Clays I will start working with slower powders like WSF, Universal, and WST. It was my understanding that basic physics said more mass means greater inertia of rest therefore use a slower burning powder to build up pressure more gradually and avoid spiking pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) Why is it that Clays is said to be too fast burning for 147's in the 9mm but people recommend as alternatives N320 (right next to Clays on chart), Titegroup (faster), and Solo 1000 (faster yet)? Charts are not the whole story...... Type in "powder burn rate charts" in Google and take a look at the results. I just pulled up 9 (the first page) results and see every one of the charts listing the powders in different order - as to comparative burn rates. You can get any result you want for justification of a powder if you choose the right chart...... Edited December 1, 2011 by Merlin Orr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Why is it that Clays is said to be too fast burning for 147's in the 9mm but people recommend as alternatives N320 (right next to Clays on chart), Titegroup (faster), and Solo 1000 (faster yet)? Charts are not the whole story...... Type in "powder burn rate charts" in Google and take a look at the results. I just pulled up 9 (the first page) results and see every one of the charts listing the powders in different order - as to comparative burn rates. You can get any result you want for justification of a powder if you choose the right chart...... +1 The "Burn Rate" is achieved by open burning of the powder along a channel, while the powder is not under pressure. Put a powder under pressure, or at different altitude, temperature, etc., and it burns quite differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckell101 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Okay, my search on using 147s and Clays with the search function gives the impression that the combination will either turn my 75 Shadow into the equivalent of an airsoft wunder-gun or an IED with Achmed the Terrorist sitting on the trigger. Any advice is appreciated. I tried 147gr alloy with Clay's and did not have any luck at all within the parameters that Lyman/Hogdon's suggests. The powder burned far too fast to make power. I switched to Winchester WSF and have not looked back. Not to mention it burns cleaner. I'd say don't waste your time or money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcracco Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Yup, I switched to WSF with 124's for much better accuracy with very manageable recoil. With Clays and 147's I was making pf and recoil was great but bullet was not traveling fast enough to be stable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankfan79 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Yup, I switched to WSF with 124's for much better accuracy with very manageable recoil. With Clays and 147's I was making pf and recoil was great but bullet was not traveling fast enough to be stable. +1 Had a shooter recently use this combo and had severe tumbling issues with his bullets. Lots of keyholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Clays is not a suitable powder for 9mm. There are a number of fast powders which perform well in 9mm - Bullseye, VV N-320, Titegroup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemax29 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I've been shooting Clays in 9MM minor for about 8 years without any problems. 3.2 Clays OAL 1.135 147 CMJ Montana Gold. It is a super flat and really nice load. This load has worked very well in my Glock 34 and a friends XDM 5.25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I've been shooting Clays in 9MM minor for about 8 years without any problems. 3.2 Clays OAL 1.135 147 CMJ Montana Gold. It is a super flat and really nice load. This load has worked very well in my Glock 34 and a friends XDM 5.25 I just tried some clays for the first time only because I can load very long in my pistols. 3.1 grains at 1.244" (not a typo) with a 147 x-treme plated bullet gets me 127 pf out of a 5" bbl. It is a very soft shooting load but not as mind blowing as I thought it would be based on some of the reviews here. Alliant e3 comes very close to the feel as it is also a very fast powder but not quite as fast as clays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I've been shooting Clays in 9MM minor for about 8 years without any problems. 3.2 Clays OAL 1.135 147 CMJ Montana Gold. It is a super flat and really nice load. This load has worked very well in my Glock 34 and a friends XDM 5.25 I just tried some clays for the first time only because I can load very long in my pistols. 3.1 grains at 1.244" (not a typo) with a 147 x-treme plated bullet gets me 127 pf out of a 5" bbl. It is a very soft shooting load but not as mind blowing as I thought it would be based on some of the reviews here. Alliant e3 comes very close to the feel as it is also a very fast powder but not quite as fast as clays. Just wait until you have a random round that cycles the slide so slowly that you thought it squibbed or one that you think the gun blew up in your hand. I bet you'll never try that again! Clays + heavy bullets in 9mm == very bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Just wait until you have a random round that cycles the slide so slowly that you thought it squibbed or one that you think the gun blew up in your hand. I bet you'll never try that again! Clays + heavy bullets in 9mm == very bad idea. So much love, lol. Thought I'd try it since I'm able to have a very long OAL. Since it isn't a huge 'improvement' over slightly slower powders, I'll probably burn up the 4 lbs I have and stick with the other mainstays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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