p7fl Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) I’ve always understood that there is some break between standby and the buzzer. 8.3.3 How do you handle it when the RO has it as one sound? A few years ago I had a M shooter flip out on me after blowing a stage at a totally unimportant club match when I must have done it to him. I’ve had “stanbybeep” happen to me a lot recently. When you are wired in, it is hard to stop going ahead and taking that first shot. IF I stop after the first shot, as the shooter, could I refer to 8.3.3? 8.3.3 actually says “within” 1 second. Could that also legally be a zero gap between standby and the buzzer? TIA jon NOTE: edit this should have been asked in rules, I post like I shoot. Edited June 25, 2011 by p7fl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirveyr Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 When RO's short beep me, I elbow them in the mouth when I draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HI5-O Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 When RO's short beep me, I elbow them in the mouth when I draw. I do the beep 1-4 seconds after "stand-by". Really don't like it when I get "short beeped". Have learned to watch and listen to the RO with other shooters so I don't get too surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Easy pie. If the RO short strokes you... DON'T MOVE and pretend like you didn't hear it................ 8.3.4 “Start Signal” – The signal for the competitor to begin their attempt at the course of fire. If a competitor fails to react to a start signal, for any reason, the Range Officer will confirm that the competitor is ready to attempt the course of fire, and will resume the range commands from “Are You Ready?”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Miles Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Easy pie. If the RO short strokes you... DON'T MOVE and pretend like you didn't hear it................ 8.3.4 "Start Signal" – The signal for the competitor to begin their attempt at the course of fire. If a competitor fails to react to a start signal, for any reason, the Range Officer will confirm that the competitor is ready to attempt the course of fire, and will resume the range commands from "Are You Ready?". +1 Then wait a few seconds and ask him to do you the courtesy of knowing and following the rules. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 8.3.3 actually says “within” 1 second. Better read the rule in its entirety: 8.3.3 “Standby” – This command should be followed by the start signal within 1 to 4 seconds. No, anything less than a second is too short...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 NOTE: edit this should have been asked in rules, I post like I shoot. Moved. You're welcome! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latech15 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 I have a guy who I shoot with who is notorious for short stroking. I just know that it is coming with him and adjust my senses. I really hat e the long pauses too though. When I am running a guy I try to say to my self "One-One-thousand" then beep him. Seems like that is about right in my head anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 This is why I use a timer that has a random start time 1 to 4 seconds after pressing the button. Its as much a surprise to me as to the shooter when the buzzer sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Jones Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 This is why I use a timer that has a random start time 1 to 4 seconds after pressing the button. Its as much a surprise to me as to the shooter when the buzzer sounds. The random start function is not for use by the RO. It is a shooter practice session function. If you use it as the RO you surrender the ability to NOT issue the start signal. Stuff happens on the range and there are occasions you do not want the timer to beep and the shooter to draw. Keep in control of the timer. Basic RO class instruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 If you use it as the RO you surrender the ability to NOT issue the start signal. Stuff happens on the range and there are occasions you do not want the timer to beep and the shooter to draw. Keep in control of the timer. Basic RO class instruction. I hadn't considered that. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 If I see an RO is always early, and I always pay attention to the RO before I shoot, I draw on "standby" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reshoot Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 I’ve always understood that there is some break between standby and the buzzer. 8.3.3 How do you handle it when the RO has it as one sound? A few years ago I had a M shooter flip out on me after blowing a stage at a totally unimportant club match when I must have done it to him. I’ve had “stanbybeep” happen to me a lot recently. When you are wired in, it is hard to stop going ahead and taking that first shot. IF I stop after the first shot, as the shooter, could I refer to 8.3.3? 8.3.3 actually says “within” 1 second. Could that also legally be a zero gap between standby and the buzzer? TIA jon NOTE: edit this should have been asked in rules, I post like I shoot. Once I nod my head, at the "are you ready", I am waiting to hear the timer sound. I try to totally ignore any other sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Something pointed out to me is the timing and repeatability of the RO's start. One who consistently beeps about 1.5 seconds after Standby allows people to start gaming the stage. Myself when I say "Standby" I start pushing the button with increasing pressure as I count. Sometimes it beeps at about 1 second. Most times it is 2 to 4 seconds before the pressure is enough. I have seen others that keep their finger off the button and at a time they feel is right, and predictable, they slap their finger down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p7fl Posted June 26, 2011 Author Share Posted June 26, 2011 Nik: thx for the move OK..i get and agree with the responses. 2nd half of the question was. Short buzzer goes off and you take the first shot. Is there any valid legitimate legal non whiney way to restart? thx jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 This is why I use a timer that has a random start time 1 to 4 seconds after pressing the button. Its as much a surprise to me as to the shooter when the buzzer sounds. The random start function is not for use by the RO. It is a shooter practice session function. If you use it as the RO you surrender the ability to NOT issue the start signal. Stuff happens on the range and there are occasions you do not want the timer to beep and the shooter to draw. Keep in control of the timer. Basic RO class instruction. I guess you forget saying STOP. Basis range command...keeps you in control of the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Yeah, but on delay and you hit the button and then have to "stop" the shooter, the timer's going to go off anyway, and you're trying to avoid that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Yeah, but on delay and you hit the button and then have to "stop" the shooter, To that I say... So? I've actually run shooters with the delay set for years. I've literally run thousands of shooters with the delay (if not 10's of thousands)... I have never had an issue using the delay. Ever. ...the timer's going to go off anyway, and you're trying to avoid that. Why? If you need to stop the shooter, then stop the shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztecdriver Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 This is one of my pet peeves with ROs. I've done it once to someone when it was FREEZING early morning on the first day of a state match and I was feeling for the button and set it off with my numb finger... He turned his head and looked at me and very sarcastically said "That was a little quick wasn't it?!" I was glad he didn't start because I felt it discourteous to him. My response was "absolutely - wasn't my intent - make ready" I occasionally remind a few ROs I that they are short stroking shooters. They maintain they are giving one second - and say to me I count "1" beep - which isn't a second. It also occurs on certain ROs that drag out saying "stannnnnnnnnndddd Byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee". It seems they start counting when they start saying stand by... My favorite RO says "are you ready- standby" as a short, quick almost bark. Then it's always a good variable time on the beep. You know who you are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Jones Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 The random start function is not for use by the RO. It is a shooter practice session function. If you use it as the RO you surrender the ability to NOT issue the start signal. Stuff happens on the range and there are occasions you do not want the timer to beep and the shooter to draw. Keep in control of the timer. Basic RO class instruction. I guess you forget saying STOP. Basis range command...keeps you in control of the stage. I didn't forget anything. No need for STOP if there's no START. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latech15 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 How exactly does a shooter start gaming a stage if the RO waits 1.5 seconds? I don't get it. The gaming occurs in the way that the stage is shot. He cant start shooting til the beep whether it is .5 or 5.5 seconds after standby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztecdriver Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 How exactly does a shooter start gaming a stage if the RO waits 1.5 seconds? I don't get it. The gaming occurs in the way that the stage is shot. He cant start shooting til the beep whether it is .5 or 5.5 seconds after standby. He starts anticipating the timing. If you are consistent at 1.5 seconds, they'll anticipate and get a jump... It's all about reaction time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 The random start function is not for use by the RO. It is a shooter practice session function. If you use it as the RO you surrender the ability to NOT issue the start signal. Stuff happens on the range and there are occasions you do not want the timer to beep and the shooter to draw. Keep in control of the timer. Basic RO class instruction. I guess you forget saying STOP. Basis range command...keeps you in control of the stage. I didn't forget anything. No need for STOP if there's no START. Well sure there is. I saw a "Stop" properly used before the start signal at the recent A5 match. (unrelated issue to this topic) I can readily think of a few situations that would apply...after the MR command. As you said, "stuff happens on the range." And, when things happen, we use the range commands. The range commands are what allows us to control the stage...no matter what the mechanical/electronic/static devices on the stage do. -------------------------- To get us back on topic... for the beep, the rule gives the time frame after the "standby" command. What is the proper recourse for a quick beep? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanky Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 My favorite RO says "are you ready- standby" as a short, quick almost bark. Then it's always a good variable time on the beep. You know who you are... I do that. I think we talked about this but when I first heard johns commands on YouTube Iaughed but liked it enough that I stole...err...adopted it. I also will try to consciously vary time between standby and beep. I remember reading in another thread about shooters picking up on it so it's been in my mind for each shooter I run ever since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Not everyone that works a major is a seasoned RO...sometimes a kind reminder is all it takes. I had one such incident happen at a match recently. "RUREDDYSTANDBYBEEP"...after the 2 second pause on my end, I turned around and asked him for a 1-4 second start...with a smile of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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