GregJ Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I'm trying out lead bullets for the first time. I got some Missouri Bullets, 200gr SWC IDP#1 BHN 18 bullets. I have them loaded at 5.4 gr of W231 with OAL of 1.25 and crimp of .469. They shoot very well in my Kimber Gold Match II, but with some leading of the barrel about 1/2" beyond the chamber. I've tried these at 5.0gr and 5.7gr of W231, and really like the 5.4gr load. Is there something I can do differently to reduce the leading? TIA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 You probably need a softer bullet. Missouri Bullets makes different hardness of bullets depending on what they are used for. Give them a call and see what they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Ideally, you should slug the barrel of your gun. Slugging is pushing a soft lead ball or boolit down your barrel with say a wooden dowel rod. Once it comes out the muzzle end then you take your calipers to it. From that you get an idea of your lead bullets need to be sized .451. .452. Or even .453 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 (edited) If all else fails Bayou Bullets, cleaner than jacketed! Edited June 1, 2011 by CocoBolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sr20ve Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Shooting lead is about 1) Bullet size 2) Bullet size 4) Powder 4) Bullet hardness. So I am going to guess your got a undersize bullet. Your not using a FCD are you? If so try it with out the FCD by seating a crimping at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregJ Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 (edited) Shooting lead is about 1) Bullet size 2) Bullet size 4) Powder 4) Bullet hardness. So I am going to guess your got a undersize bullet. Your not using a FCD are you? If so try it with out the FCD by seating a crimping at the same time. The bullets are .452, so unless the barrel on my Kimber is .453 or more, they shouldnt be undersized. No FCD, Hornady seat/crimp die to seat only and a Redding taper crimp die. Seating and crimping at same time? I just switched to seperate dies, so that I could get a tighter taper crimp on Berry's 200gr SWC. Besides, I had read it's always better to seperate the two functions, especially lead. Is this not correct? Is .469 too much of a crimp for these bullets? Edited June 1, 2011 by GregJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Greg - I agree with Toolguy. .45 ACP is a low pressure cartridge and works better with softer bullets. It sounds like everything else you're doing is about right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Give your bullets a very light coating of Alox followed by a dusting of mica to get rid of the sticky. I do this with all of my lead bullets - 9mm,.40 and .45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregJ Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 (edited) Greg - I agree with Toolguy. .45 ACP is a low pressure cartridge and works better with softer bullets. It sounds like everything else you're doing is about right. That's interesting. The IDP#1 bullets from MB say they are intended for major power factor, so that's the reason I got them. I'll try some of their Bullseye #1 next (BHN 12), and see how they fare. Thanks Edited June 1, 2011 by GregJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmanfixit Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 4.5 Gr of 231 to around 5 gr should drive them plenty fast and reduce the leading. Alox is a very good lube. I like to use Unique myself because the pressure curve is flatter thus lower peak temperature, less erosion on the bullet base. My pals look down their noses tho as they all seem to be very enamored of V V and other "modern" propellants. Slugging the barrel IS the way for bullseye shooters. USPSA is not bullseye, at the ranges we shoot at, I can't convince myself to go to that much trouble. Unless the bullet is grossly over or undersized, when it leaves the leade, it WILL conform to the barrel. Lead is fairly "plastic" in those pressure ranges. I'm just sayin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattog22 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Sounds undersized. You want your bullet slightly larger, for instance a .451 barrel will need a .452 bullet. You need to pull a bullet and measure to see if you are swaging it down less than .452 when you are seating it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregJ Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 Sounds undersized. You want your bullet slightly larger, for instance a .451 barrel will need a .452 bullet. You need to pull a bullet and measure to see if you are swaging it down less than .452 when you are seating it. Hmmmm, very good point. I'll check a few tonight. Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic_jon Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 If all else fails Bayou Bullets, cleaner than jacketed! I will second that. Ever since I started shooting Donnie's Bayou bullets in both my 40 and my 9 I have taken the gun apart, looked down the barrel with a bore light, been blinded by the clean barrel reflecting off the light, shrugged and reassembled the pistol. With N320 and Bayou bullets not much cleaning is necessary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 you say "some leading" Is it really causing any problems ? Do your groups open up after a couple hundred rounds ? DOes the gun experience failures ? Other than the cosmetic issues when you look downt the barrel are there any issues ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregJ Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 you say "some leading" Is it really causing any problems ? Do your groups open up after a couple hundred rounds ? DOes the gun experience failures ? Other than the cosmetic issues when you look downt the barrel are there any issues ? No, it hasnt caused any probloms - yet. But this is my first stab at loading lead, and I want to try and prevent any issues before they start. So far, no failures of any kind (though I havent run a LOT of lead rounds through it yet), ands it's only cosmetic (besides the smoke <cough> ), and the PITA to get the barrel cleaned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattog22 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 The bullets I shoot will leave a small amount of leading just along the grooves in the first maybe half inch of the barrel but it never gets worse. I have shot about 1k without cleaning and the leading was no worse than it was after the first 5 shots. There was never any loss of accuracy or function so I am ok with it. The small amount of leading doesn't really look much worse than a barrel shooting jacket bullets. The rest of the barrel actually looks cleaner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 (edited) I've never NOT had leading with straight lead bullets. I've tried all the Mo bullets, from 185's to 230's. they all leaded at some point or another. Less, MUCH less without a Lee FCD. But, I have never had the leading cause any issues either. Just shoot a couple 230gr factory FMJ's after a range session, and it cleans right up. The 147gr 9mm's leaded also. I now use BBI's for all my non jacketed rounds. Never had any leading issues with them, and the barrel comes clean with a nylon brush, or a cotton swap with some oil on it. Edited June 1, 2011 by DWFAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I would just shoot, lead will never damage the barrel, a little streaking wont hurt anything, give it a few wacks with a patch, you'll do more wear and tear to a barrel with aggressive cleaning than you ever will with lead bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayd Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 If all else fails Bayou Bullets, cleaner than jacketed! +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1fng Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 One more vote for Bayou. I shot about 400 of them over the weekend, and all I have to show for it is a clean barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 What tiny bit of leading I get on occasion is easily removed with a Chore Boy pad. I can't afford the fancy bullets. I pay $40 per 1000 for 160 gr 9mm, $42 for 180 .40 and $44 for 200 swc .45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawboy Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 (edited) "Leading" is a very general statement. What exactly are you seeing in the barrel ahead of the chamber? What type of cleaning regime does it take to get this leading out? What do you see on the cleaning patches in terms of deposits from the barrel? The answers to these questions will tell if you have problematic leading or not. Also, where the leading is in the barrel will let you know something about what is occurring. If it is in a very localized part of the barrel just ahead of the chamber, I would guess the bullets are too hard for the pressure profile of W231. If they are undersized you will have lead coming out on the patches in long flaky streaks. If the bullet lube is failing (Generally too hard and waxy) you will have heavier deposits towards the muzzle. Edited June 6, 2011 by lawboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregJ Posted June 6, 2011 Author Share Posted June 6, 2011 (edited) What exactly are you seeing in the barrel ahead of the chamber? I'm seeing leading, not long streaks. What type of cleaning regime does it take to get this leading out? I usually use a barrel mop with Hoppes on it, let the barrel soak for a few min, then take a bore brush with strip from copper Chore Boy pad wrapped around it. 20 passes through the barrel, patches with Hoppes on them, more Hoppes on a bore mop, more sitting, more passes with the bore brush, etc. Generally takes about 20 min just to get the barrel clean. What do you see on the cleaning patches in terms of deposits from the barrel? Small lead specs and a lot of gunk. I dont have long streaks of lead, nor do I have much if any towards the muzzle. If it is in a very localized part of the barrel just ahead of the chamber, I would guess the bullets are too hard for the pressure profile of W231. If they are undersized you will have lead coming out on the patches in long flaky streaks. If the bullet lube is failing (Generally too hard and waxy) you will have heavier deposits towards the muzzle. Ok, now this is making sense. The bullets I have are BHN18, which obviously are too hard for W231. Thanks Edited June 6, 2011 by GregJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latech15 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Bayou Bullets keep my fingers clean too. Since I started shooting nothing but Bayou Bullets, My barrels get two swipes with a bore snake then back to work. Donnie is so lovable too. Like a big fluffy teddy bear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregJ Posted June 6, 2011 Author Share Posted June 6, 2011 Bayou Bullets keep my fingers clean too. Since I started shooting nothing but Bayou Bullets, My barrels get two swipes with a bore snake then back to work. Donnie is so lovable too. Like a big fluffy teddy bear. Email send asking for product pricing. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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