Any way of shooting lead without leading?

[lawboy]

What exactly are you seeing in the barrel ahead of the chamber?

I'm seeing leading, not long streaks.

What type of cleaning regime does it take to get this leading out?

I usually use a barrel mop with Hoppes on it, let the barrel soak for a few min, then take a bore brush with strip from copper Chore Boy pad wrapped around it. 20 passes through the barrel, patches with Hoppes on them, more Hoppes on a bore mop, more sitting, more passes with the bore brush, etc. Generally takes about 20 min just to get the barrel clean.

What do you see on the cleaning patches in terms of deposits from the barrel?

Small lead specs and a lot of gunk. I dont have long streaks of lead, nor do I have much if any towards the muzzle.

If it is in a very localized part of the barrel just ahead of the chamber, I would guess the bullets are too hard for the pressure profile of W231. If they are undersized you will have lead coming out on the patches in long flaky streaks. If the bullet lube is failing (Generally too hard and waxy) you will have heavier deposits towards the muzzle.

Ok, now this is making sense. The bullets I have are BHN18, which obviously are too hard for W231. Thanks

A bhn of 18 is more than you need for any W231 load. I shoot a lot of 45acp with bullets I cast myself. I probably cast and shoot 5,000-8,000 annually on a consistent basis. My bullets are bhn 9-10. I use soft alox lube and I have no leading. I cannot tell you the last time I got so much as a speck of lead out of any of my barrels and I sometimes shoot thousands of rounds between brass brushing the barrels. I size to .452 but barrels vary so slug yours. It is hard to use bullets too large but very easy to end up with bullets too small. I shoot Bullseye and WST in my 45acp loads. I would say use a softer bullet -- bhn 10-12 -- and softer lube. You don't have any say in the lube the commercial suppliers use and they universally use hard, waxy lubes so that the lube survives shipping more or less in place on the bullets. Problem is, hard waxy lube is equally universally crap. Someone in the thread recommended tumble lubing the bullets in liquid alox with the hard wax lube in place and I think this is a good idea. An extra, messy step, but it may well be worth the trouble. Good luck!

Edited June 6, 2011 by lawboy

[Steve RA]

If it's only lightly leading in front of the chamber, I wouldn't sweat it. I use that bullet with Clays and when I got the gun (new) it leaded quite a ways down the barrel, now that it's had a few thousand thru it the leading has pretty much disappeared. That, of course, is without cleaning the barrel. They, barrels, generally smooth up after some reasonable amount of use.

Cleaning, imho, is a waste of time and effort unless you are planning to put it up for an extended period of time. Then, I'd clean it and lightly lubricate it to prevent any possibility of corrosion.

[g56]

I was looking at the Bayou Bullets, when I Googled them I found this demo video, they show a huge reduction in smoke compared to cast bullets, very impressive!

[NuJudge]

I'm a believer in using cast bullets that are .001" larger than groove, use a really good lubricant, and use hard bullets for everything.

The only thing that has not been talked about here is bullet lubricant. In the .45 acp, you can probably use just about any lube, but I like the NRA formula: 50% Alox 2138F and 50% Beeswax. I use it for everything from 2200fps to subsonic. It does cause some smoke, especially at lower pressures, but this does not bother me. Alox Corporation was bought out by Lubrizol, and they stopped making 2138F, but are still making the very similar Alox 350. The cheapest place to buy it is here:

http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/index.html

Lee Liquid Alox is another Alox/Lubrizol product, and Lars buys it in bulk and sells it to you for a lot cheaper than Lee. I've been using it a lot lately on .40 S&W with excellent results, and have had good results in the .45acp too. I'm not getting significant smoke from it.

[lawboy]

The only thing that has not been talked about here is bullet lubricant.

Nope. Read again.

[gordonm1]

I shoot alot of missouri 180 gr lead bullets at 18 BHN in .40 cal. Pressures are much higher and I get no leading. I wonder if the softer bullets they sell might lead less for you. I'm wondering for my own 45ACP loading too since I haven't tried the soft ones yet.

[soaringf22]

i use the 230s and i dont get leading. i use WST. however i get a ton of lube debris in the gun which is real dirty. in my match grade 1911 barrels its not as bad as the looser factory barrels, but bullets also fly about 35fps slower in my factory barrel gun as opposed to the match barrel guns.

[blaster113]

I used to shoot Missouri 180's in .40 now and then with HP38(WW231) loaded to major pf when money was tight. Barrel of my STI used to look like the inside of a sewer pipe after a few hundred rounds. The gun would actually stop running at about the 500 round mark with that load. Had a little leading/streaks of lead in the rifling but it came out with a few passes from a Brownells Doubletuff bore brush.

Using BBI molys now for practice/local matches so cleanup is a lot easier, though I would use Missouri bullets again if money was really tight.

[bushman66]

I had leading with the Missouri Bullet 230gr RN and Clays. Switched to LaserCast 200gr LSWC and W231. Both sized to .452".

Not a scientific comparison I know, since I changed several things at once...

FWIW, I have never had leading with ANY bullet (.38spl/.357; 44Mag/44Spl, and 45ACP) with LaserCast. If you buy them in lots of 6K, with the 10% internet discount, they are almost the same price as the Missouri Bullets.

[gigamortis]

I had some lead streaking starting at the chamber and lessening on down the barrel with the Missouri bullets in 18BHN, too. I did slug my barrel and found it to be .452". The Missouri bullets measured .452". I get a little less leading out of the chamber with the Precision Bullet offering at .452", as they are swaged and softer with a dished base, but still get some leading. As far as I can tell, in our usual ~125 round matches starting with a clean barrel, accuracy doesn't noticeably degrade enough to worry about it at USPSA and IDPA shooting distances. Chore boy wrapped around an old bore brush cleans the barrel right up with about 50 strokes.

I did eventually make the switch to Bayou Bullets. All I can say is WOW! Even though they are .452" sized, I get no leading at all. It's like shooting jacketed as far as smoke and barrel cleanliness go, but I can step down to lead load data for an even softer hit. Even in my CZ 9mm barrel, I was getting lead streaking with BBI and Precision Bullets due to its slightly oversize .3565" bore. The Bayou Bullets I got for it are sized .356" and leave a clean barrel, too.