Cproflow Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Hello All...1st post but I've been reading like a fiend! I'm fairly new to pistols, and just got my M&P Pro, 5". Took it to the range for the maiden voyage, noticed it was shooting waaay right (even at 7yds). I look at the fron FO and it is not centered. Odd...I thought. So I use my nail to try to bump it to center--and the damn thing pops out! Quite easily I might add. So, the dealer is looking into getting another FO from S&W, but who knows how long that will take. Anyway, on to the real reason for the post. I've heard so many good things about Dawson, I'd like to give them a try. I do like the adjustable idea, so correcting for different POI from different bullet grains is simpler. My quandary is pretty simple. Both Dawson and SSS state the .305" front FO is required to match the adjustable. This seems pretty high, and I've read some forum feedback (from this forum too) that confirms the same. Other folks seem to like the .265" front, and feel it is just fine. The Dawson site has the adjustable rear as a 'matched set' with the .265", with no equivalent (that I could find) to the .305". The folks that are running the .265" seem pretty pleased--although do they run out of adjustment? I'm not even going to pretend to know a fraction of what Dawson knows--as I said, I'm pretty new. I've seen his vids on You Tube and was pretty impressed by him. But I'm not sure what the right choice is. I'd like to get the .265" that is matched to the rear, but don't want to make a mistake. I'm already put off by the initial malfunction on behalf of S&W, and don't want to waste any more time & money. I want to shoot that pistol Can anyone who uses either help steer me in the right direction? Is there really a 'right' answer to this? Many thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill40718 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I have a Dawson adjustable rear and a Dawson .265 Fiber Optic front on my 5" M&P Pro. I'm currently shoot Montana Gold 124 gr JHP at 133 PF +-. I have had absolutely no adjustment issues with mine. Right in the middle of the range, maybe a few clicks closer to the bottom. This is also the 3rd M&P I've had with the same sight combination. two 5" and one 4.5". No problems. My .02 worth. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdm74 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 That's a common defect with the front site. Adjustable is not needed. You'll adjust it once and never adjust it again. Im running a sss front site with a burwell rear which im very happy with. The sivigney warren tac set is also a good option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throttleup Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I installed the Dawson adjustable rear and .305" FO front sight. The S&W rear took a little effort getting off but the Dawson slipped right on as advertised. The old front sight was a bear getting off, unlike yours. The new front had to be filed some to fit properly. I probably should have had a gunsmith do it but I'm cheap. The elevation was dead on and only needed a little windage to zero. The .305" does sit a little higher off the slide but it also seems to pop into view faster than the old one did and I love it. I think you will be pleased with this setup. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Gaines Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 That's a common defect with the front site. Adjustable is not needed. You'll adjust it once and never adjust it again. Im running a sss front site with a burwell rear which im very happy with. The sivigney warren tac set is also a good option I tend to disagree, and would never shot a competition gun with out ajustable sights. In fact, I don't even know why someone would waste their time buying a fixed rear and guessing which front sight to put on it. Then when the impact is 1" off at 15yrds, they just go "I know that its 1" high at 15yrds, and I will just compensate" Personally i don't want to have to kentucky windage anything. I want my sights to hit a knats ass, especially when the buzzer goes off, and the adrenaline is flowing thats the last thing I want to do is bring conscience thought to a subconscience event. Now if you get lucky, and or buy a bunch of different front sights to match the rear and get it to hit a knats ass thats a different story, but who's got the time to be installing different front sights until it hits right. I would rather spend my time shooting, and not guessing. And for the price that you spend on all the different combination of front sights, you could have just bought an adjustable rear and be done with it. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWF Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 That's a common defect with the front site. Adjustable is not needed. You'll adjust it once and never adjust it again. Im running a sss front site with a burwell rear which im very happy with. The sivigney warren tac set is also a good option I tend to disagree, and would never shot a competition gun with out ajustable sights. In fact, I don't even know why someone would waste their time buying a fixed rear and guessing which front sight to put on it. Then when the impact is 1" off at 15yrds, they just go "I know that its 1" high at 15yrds, and I will just compensate" Personally i don't want to have to kentucky windage anything. I want my sights to hit a knats ass, especially when the buzzer goes off, and the adrenaline is flowing thats the last thing I want to do is bring conscience thought to a subconscience event. Now if you get lucky, and or buy a bunch of different front sights to match the rear and get it to hit a knats ass thats a different story, but who's got the time to be installing different front sights until it hits right. I would rather spend my time shooting, and not guessing. And for the price that you spend on all the different combination of front sights, you could have just bought an adjustable rear and be done with it. JMO +1 and i did try the .305 do not use hated it looks like sky scraper. the .265 or 285 is much better. unless the gun is for a tactical ted or = go adjustable. i tryed like hell to save a doller not to long ago on my M & P 45 build went though several front sights and was never happy. i do not like having to cover where i want the bullet to hit. for me it makes it hard for head shots and plates when you can not see them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cproflow Posted May 27, 2011 Author Share Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) Thanks for the replies so far... It is looking like the .265 is a legitimate choice when paired with that adjustable, even with the 5" slide. I'll keep my options open pending some other replies. Thank you to those who replied so far. I'm more of a POA/POI type shooter, rather than a 6 o'clock holder. Other feedback welcome! Edited May 27, 2011 by Cproflow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 That's a common defect with the front site. Adjustable is not needed. You'll adjust it once and never adjust it again. Im running a sss front site with a burwell rear which im very happy with. The sivigney warren tac set is also a good option I tend to disagree, and would never shot a competition gun with out ajustable sights. In fact, I don't even know why someone would waste their time buying a fixed rear and guessing which front sight to put on it. Then when the impact is 1" off at 15yrds, they just go "I know that its 1" high at 15yrds, and I will just compensate" Personally i don't want to have to kentucky windage anything. I want my sights to hit a knats ass, especially when the buzzer goes off, and the adrenaline is flowing thats the last thing I want to do is bring conscience thought to a subconscience event. Now if you get lucky, and or buy a bunch of different front sights to match the rear and get it to hit a knats ass thats a different story, but who's got the time to be installing different front sights until it hits right. I would rather spend my time shooting, and not guessing. And for the price that you spend on all the different combination of front sights, you could have just bought an adjustable rear and be done with it. JMO You only have to buy one sight and is pretty simple to get it right the first time if you have a littel skill in the area. No need to kentucky windage anything. If your gun is pretty much gonna do one thing fixed sights rule, nothing to break or come outa adjustment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdm74 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 That's a common defect with the front site. Adjustable is not needed. You'll adjust it once and never adjust it again. Im running a sss front site with a burwell rear which im very happy with. The sivigney warren tac set is also a good option I tend to disagree, and would never shot a competition gun with out ajustable sights. In fact, I don't even know why someone would waste their time buying a fixed rear and guessing which front sight to put on it. Then when the impact is 1" off at 15yrds, they just go "I know that its 1" high at 15yrds, and I will just compensate" Personally i don't want to have to kentucky windage anything. I want my sights to hit a knats ass, especially when the buzzer goes off, and the adrenaline is flowing thats the last thing I want to do is bring conscience thought to a subconscience event. Now if you get lucky, and or buy a bunch of different front sights to match the rear and get it to hit a knats ass thats a different story, but who's got the time to be installing different front sights until it hits right. I would rather spend my time shooting, and not guessing. And for the price that you spend on all the different combination of front sights, you could have just bought an adjustable rear and be done with it. JMO Not sure which sport your shooting but the targets I see in uspsa are way larger then a gnats ass. You are not dealinng with a prototype gun, there are plenty people in the industry who will have you fixed and on target the first time. Now if you want a giant double decker bus rear site on your gun that's fine. But I prefer a low profile sight. And where i point the sight is where it shoots. Your probllem could have been ammo or shooter error or you bought the wrong size. Please don't spread false info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Miles Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Thanks for the replies so far... It is looking like the .265 is a legitimate choice when paired with that adjustable, even with the 5" slide. I'll keep my options open pending some other replies. Thank you to those who replied so far. I'm more of a POA/POI type shooter, rather than a 6 o'clock holder. Other feedback welcome! I have the .265" on my Pro. No problems making elevation for my loads. I too was told by Dawson that I needed a .305" tall front sight. Not so. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 I have the .305 on my Pro. It did seem enormous when I first saw it, but I like how it's really easy to pick up because it is so big. I have no problems with adjustment range, although mine is almost bottomed out. I shoot 160gr bullets if that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Gaines Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 That's a common defect with the front site. Adjustable is not needed. You'll adjust it once and never adjust it again. Im running a sss front site with a burwell rear which im very happy with. The sivigney warren tac set is also a good option I tend to disagree, and would never shot a competition gun with out ajustable sights. In fact, I don't even know why someone would waste their time buying a fixed rear and guessing which front sight to put on it. Then when the impact is 1" off at 15yrds, they just go "I know that its 1" high at 15yrds, and I will just compensate" Personally i don't want to have to kentucky windage anything. I want my sights to hit a knats ass, especially when the buzzer goes off, and the adrenaline is flowing thats the last thing I want to do is bring conscience thought to a subconscience event. Now if you get lucky, and or buy a bunch of different front sights to match the rear and get it to hit a knats ass thats a different story, but who's got the time to be installing different front sights until it hits right. I would rather spend my time shooting, and not guessing. And for the price that you spend on all the different combination of front sights, you could have just bought an adjustable rear and be done with it. JMO Not sure which sport your shooting but the targets I see in uspsa are way larger then a gnats ass. You are not dealinng with a prototype gun, there are plenty people in the industry who will have you fixed and on target the first time. Now if you want a giant double decker bus rear site on your gun that's fine. But I prefer a low profile sight. And where i point the sight is where it shoots. Your probllem could have been ammo or shooter error or you bought the wrong size. Please don't spread false info. Yeah sure, thats what the problem is.. Lol Have fun when you shoot those 35yrd plates, or a match where you have to aim and use those sights. being able to dial in your sights is crucial. Being a production gun were points are a premium, and you get penalized more for deltas, you definately need something thats going to hit a knats ass!! or don't and you can just use the force, and shoot were it points, like you said. There is a name for that, its called "point shooting". If you are going to do that, then heck you don't need sights at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdm74 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) That's a common defect with the front site. Adjustable is not needed. You'll adjust it once and never adjust it again. Im running a sss front site with a burwell rear which im very happy with. The sivigney warren tac set is also a good option I tend to disagree, and would never shot a competition gun with out ajustable sights. In fact, I don't even know why someone would waste their time buying a fixed rear and guessing which front sight to put on it. Then when the impact is 1" off at 15yrds, they just go "I know that its 1" high at 15yrds, and I will just compensate" Personally i don't want to have to kentucky windage anything. I want my sights to hit a knats ass, especially when the buzzer goes off, and the adrenaline is flowing thats the last thing I want to do is bring conscience thought to a subconscience event. Now if you get lucky, and or buy a bunch of different front sights to match the rear and get it to hit a knats ass thats a different story, but who's got the time to be installing different front sights until it hits right. I would rather spend my time shooting, and not guessing. And for the price that you spend on all the different combination of front sights, you could have just bought an adjustable rear and be done with it. JMO Not sure which sport your shooting but the targets I see in uspsa are way larger then a gnats ass. You are not dealinng with a prototype gun, there are plenty people in the industry who will have you fixed and on target the first time. Now if you want a giant double decker bus rear site on your gun that's fine. But I prefer a low profile sight. And where i point the sight is where it shoots. Your probllem could have been ammo or shooter error or you bought the wrong size. Please don't spread false info. Yeah sure, thats what the problem is.. Lol Have fun when you shoot those 35yrd plates, or a match where you have to aim and use those sights. being able to dial in your sights is crucial. Being a production gun were points are a premium, and you get penalized more for deltas, you definately need something thats going to hit a knats ass!! or don't and you can just use the force, and shoot were it points, like you said. There is a name for that, its called "point shooting". If you are going to do that, then heck you don't need sights at all! Did you not read. ?? "Where I point the sight" also means where I aimed. I know plenty masters and a few grand masters and none of them use adjustable sights. This is not a rifle. By your take on things fixed sights dont work at all. Hell you might as well scrap that barrel to cause it aint to accurate either. Please don't exaggerate and twist my words. Edited May 28, 2011 by sdm74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Gaines Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 That's a common defect with the front site. Adjustable is not needed. You'll adjust it once and never adjust it again. Im running a sss front site with a burwell rear which im very happy with. The sivigney warren tac set is also a good option I tend to disagree, and would never shot a competition gun with out ajustable sights. In fact, I don't even know why someone would waste their time buying a fixed rear and guessing which front sight to put on it. Then when the impact is 1" off at 15yrds, they just go "I know that its 1" high at 15yrds, and I will just compensate" Personally i don't want to have to kentucky windage anything. I want my sights to hit a knats ass, especially when the buzzer goes off, and the adrenaline is flowing thats the last thing I want to do is bring conscience thought to a subconscience event. Now if you get lucky, and or buy a bunch of different front sights to match the rear and get it to hit a knats ass thats a different story, but who's got the time to be installing different front sights until it hits right. I would rather spend my time shooting, and not guessing. And for the price that you spend on all the different combination of front sights, you could have just bought an adjustable rear and be done with it. JMO Not sure which sport your shooting but the targets I see in uspsa are way larger then a gnats ass. You are not dealinng with a prototype gun, there are plenty people in the industry who will have you fixed and on target the first time. Now if you want a giant double decker bus rear site on your gun that's fine. But I prefer a low profile sight. And where i point the sight is where it shoots. Your probllem could have been ammo or shooter error or you bought the wrong size. Please don't spread false info. Yeah sure, thats what the problem is.. Lol Have fun when you shoot those 35yrd plates, or a match where you have to aim and use those sights. being able to dial in your sights is crucial. Being a production gun were points are a premium, and you get penalized more for deltas, you definately need something thats going to hit a knats ass!! or don't and you can just use the force, and shoot were it points, like you said. There is a name for that, its called "point shooting". If you are going to do that, then heck you don't need sights at all! Did you not read. ?? "Where I point the sight" also means where I aimed. I know plenty masters and a few grand masters and none of them use adjustable sights. This is not a rifle. By your take on things fixed sights dont work at all. Hell you might as well scrap that barrel to cause it aint to accurate either. Please don't exaggerate and twist my words. I am a competitivie master and I wouldn't use them. And if you read my initial post, they are ok if you can get them to hit a knats ass, anything else is unaccepable. I expect my guns to be super accurate, and if they are not, thats just not good enough, if you are ok with mediocre accuracy, thats your problem, not mine. lol. Keep point shooting my friend, see how far it takes you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdm74 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 So do you sit there with youur llittle screwdriver and adjust your sight inbetween shots? If not its gonna hit diffrent at each distance you shoot. How do you compensate? You are obviously awesome and I have no clue. Im taking off my sights now and ill aim with my thumb. You win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Gaines Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) So do you sit there with youur llittle screwdriver and adjust your sight inbetween shots? If not its gonna hit diffrent at each distance you shoot. How do you compensate? You are obviously awesome and I have no clue. Im taking off my sights now and ill aim with my thumb. You win Nope the gun can hit a knats ass,and if it didn't I wouldn't use it. I pull out the little screwdriver when I first put the sights on, and thats it! I have confidence in my gun up to 35-40 yards, no problem! I doubt you can say that. I have been there and done that with fixed type sights. I am talking from experience, not from talking to mall ninjas Edited May 28, 2011 by Sean Gaines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torogi Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) Thanks for the replies so far... It is looking like the .265 is a legitimate choice when paired with that adjustable, even with the 5" slide. I'll keep my options open pending some other replies. Thank you to those who replied so far. I'm more of a POA/POI type shooter, rather than a 6 o'clock holder. Other feedback welcome! Adjustable rear. FO front. One post mentioned about getting a fixed rear, once you're dialed in your good to go. Consider this, when you start reloading not all load are the same. I guarantee you, you need some adjusting. For fixed, either you adjust your aim, OR for adjustable sight, well.. just adjust to whatever distance you are zeroing it. Either way you go, always bench shoot your gun. See where your POI with your POA. Edit typo: i so <3 android Edited May 28, 2011 by Torogi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdm74 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 So do you sit there with youur llittle screwdriver and adjust your sight inbetween shots? If not its gonna hit diffrent at each distance you shoot. How do you compensate? You are obviously awesome and I have no clue. Im taking off my sights now and ill aim with my thumb. You win Nope the gun can hit a knats ass,and if it didn't I wouldn't use it. I pull out the little screwdriver when I first put the sights on, and thats it! I have confidence in my gun up to 35-40 yards, no problem! I doubt you can say that. I have been there and done that with fixed type sights. I am talking from experience, not from talking to mall ninjas Illl say it again your awesome. The gm's I know do double as mall Ninjas. Your right i can't say nothing. Eyeing up my thumb as I type this. You are the end alll be all thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpeltier Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 To answer the op's question. Either will work. I would start with Dawsons recomendation. Now, adjustable sights Do Not make a gun more accurate. Period. To think or say so is foolish. They make it eisier to regulate the zero for differant loads, and nothing more. If you have one pet load than fixed sights are just as accurate and possibly more robust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzShooter Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 I just insstalled a Dawson adjustable rear and FO on my Glock. I like it. Always like an adjustable sight. Pretty easy to install, remember to go slow and use a decent file. Watch the installation video and you can't go wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWF Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 To answer the op's question. Either will work. I would start with Dawsons recomendation. Now, adjustable sights Do Not make a gun more accurate. Period. To think or say so is foolish. They make it eisier to regulate the zero for differant loads, and nothing more. If you have one pet load than fixed sights are just as accurate and possibly more robust. +1 but i say it is more accurate because i can have the bullet hit where i want so i can shoot all my pistols with out thinking where this one hits. no it does make it more accurate as in tighter groups. in USPSA i have never seen any top shooters shoot fixed sights, unless they where where just scewing around checking out someone's new production gun. my Dawson adjustable rear sight stays when it set. like i said i tried to save a dollar on my M & P 45 because i know it will not be shot that often, and to hit a 35 yard plate i have to cover the whole plate with the front sight and to me that sucks. also i have no doubt any true GM can shoot anything well. me i suck to much to even think about trying to be like them. just a note when we first started shooting it was IDPA and had lots of people say stay away from adjustable sights cause they never kept set and you are always having to reozero. FOR ME that has been totally false! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cproflow Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share Posted May 30, 2011 Thanks for the input and replies guys...I went ahead and ordered the .305 to start, and paired it with the adjustable rear. I figured it the manufacturer has such strong thoughts on which one is 'correct', I should probably start there and see how it goes. I'm kinda embarrassed about how much thought I put into this If it doesn't work out, I can always pick up the .265". The price isn't too prohibitive! Many thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjoy64 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Wow... I'm almost in disbelief at the responses. I guess I'll just go ahead and add... IMO for the rest of this response. If you have the Dawson adjustables on your M&P Pro you need the .305 tall front sight. Period, end of story. Who cares what it looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treefarmer Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Let us know how the new sights work for you T F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treefarmer Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Thanks for the input and replies guys...I went ahead and ordered the .305 to start, and paired it with the adjustable rear. I figured it the manufacturer has such strong thoughts on which one is 'correct', I should probably start there and see how it goes. I'm kinda embarrassed about how much thought I put into this If it doesn't work out, I can always pick up the .265". The price isn't too prohibitive! Many thanks again. Let us know how the new sight works for you T F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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