9mm Brass problems

[CBags04]

I've been trying to come up with some loads over the last few days and I have been having problems with the bullets being seated properly in FC and some Blazer cases. I have the expander set just enough to hold a bullet (147gr Precision Deltas) before going into the seating and crimp die. I even turned the crimp down to .378 and still having problems. I have been caliper checking all of the rounds make and the FC's suffer major setback just by closing the calipers on it. COAL is supposed to be 1.140 and those sometimes set back to 1.090. For now my solution has been to toss the FC cases, but it just seems like a waste.

Thanks for any help

[Hi-Power Jack]

Until you find out the problem, don't discard the

brass - there is nothing wrong with it.

Are you sizing the brass?

Jack

[CBags04]

Until you find out the problem, don't discard the

brass - there is nothing wrong with it.

Are you sizing the brass?

Jack

Yes, Station 1 is full length size and deprime, Station 2 is Expander, St.3 is Power drop, St.4 is Powder Cop, and St.5 is Seating and Crimp. I still have the brass, I'm just tossing it in a separate bin for now.

[Hi-Power Jack]

I presume (Never ass ume any more) that you are

getting good result with other headstamps? Win

and RP are loading normally?

Are your FC also have an NT after The FC?

I have no experience with any bullets being

pushed back into the case only in certain

headstamps.

Jack

[CBags04]

I presume (Never ass ume any more) that you are

getting good result with other headstamps? Win

and RP are loading normally?

Are your FC also have an NT after The FC?

I have no experience with any bullets being

pushed back into the case only in certain

headstamps.

Jack

That would be correct. I haven't noticed any problems with Win or RP. Nothing after FC, just "F C".

[Hi-Power Jack]

Sorry, Coleman, I've never experienced anything like that =

Guess you'll have to wait for brighter minds to solve your

problem for you. Hopefully they'll be right along ...

Good luck,

Jack

[Sherwyn]

I presume (Never ass ume any more) that you are

getting good result with other headstamps? Win

and RP are loading normally?

Are your FC also have an NT after The FC?

I have no experience with any bullets being

pushed back into the case only in certain

headstamps.

Jack

That would be correct. I haven't noticed any problems with Win or RP. Nothing after FC, just "F C".

Same type of issue I had before I switched to EGW undersize sizing die. Problem gone.

Sherwyn

[bgary]

Might think about giving just a touch more crimp. I usually set my crimp so that the case-mouth is no more than .010" larger than the nominal bullet size after crimping.

For a 9mm (.355) bullet, my 9mm rounds measure .365" at the case mouth.

$.02

[sdm74]

Fc is shorter then win

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I know the Blazer brass in 40 has a thinner wall thikness than other brass. I am not sure on the 9mm. I would measure the brass thikness and see if that is causing you the problem. If the wall thikness is thinner then you will need more crimp. Thanks, Eric

[Habagat]

If you are reloading using mixed brass, sort them and load same head stamps only. Each time you reload a different brass, check and adjust crimp as if you are just starting fresh. They have different thickness and might be affecting your crimp. This might help

[Hi-Power Jack]

I've reloaded at least 25,000 9mm (minor and major)

and almost always use mixed range brass - I've never

had the problem described here - I use FC brass and

Win & RP, mixed together, and have NEVER had a

problem like that.

Didn't even realize FC cases are shorter????

Always sounds like a good idea (the only disadvantage

is time consuming) to sort by headstamp - but I

don't, and I never have a problem of bullets not

staying put - I don't use a fancy.expensive sizer

either - I use a Square Deal with Dillon dies.

I'm confused??

Jack

[CBags04]

I loaded some last night. Before that I measured a few of the FC against some WIN and RP. They were all very close. I added a touch more crimp and it seems like that definitely helped. I was using a different bullet last night though, Precision 147gr Molys, trying to work up a load for those. I'll run some Precision Delta's tonight if I get a chance. Thanks for all the suggestions.

[motosapiens]

This sort of sounds like a sizing problem. I'm not familiar with other dies, but the lee sizing die (not a u-die or anything) i use squeezes the cases down small enough that I can generally see the line where the bottom of the bullet is in the case. even with no crimp at all, the bullet is in there quite snug, and I can't imagine how it could set back.

[Hi-Power Jack]

This sounds like a sizing problem. I'm not familiar with other dies, but the lee sizing die (not a u-die or anything) i use squeezes the cases down small enough that I can generally see the line where the bottom of the bullet is in the case. even with no crimp at all, the bullet is in there quite snug, and I can't imagine how it could set back.

I agree it sounds like a sizing problem BUT not only

with certain types of brass???

I load all types of brass with a Square Deal and it

all works like a charm - no bullets move forward...

Jack

[KPIC24]

Are you using hornaday dies? if you are mine would not size right. Went to a EGW die and have never looked back

[CBags04]

Are you using hornaday dies? if you are mine would not size right. Went to a EGW die and have never looked back

Yes, I am. And the plot thickens. I guess I'll have to try a different sizer.

[KPIC24]

If you are using an LNL. Try an EGW die and use a little one shot lube on the brass to make it eaiser to go through the press. I have not had a setback problem since, I also like to seat and crimp on different stations.

[Foxbat]

I had a somewhat similar problem with some of my 38SC brass. In that case you could spot it right as you tried to put the bullet in - it would not sit high, and you could easily slide it in and out. The sizing die was fine, but it turned out the case wall thickness on these was less than average - by almost a full .002".

Measure the wall thickness (right below the case mouth) on the trouble cases and some good ones, that might give you enough clue.

I have also seen very thin walled cases of .45, with similar issue.

Edited May 26, 2011 by Foxbat

[Jaxshooter]

If you are having a problem with set back increasing the crimp is not the right solution. The sizing of the brass is the problem. The case necks need to be smaller to put tension on the bullet when you seat it. Neck tension is what holds the bullet and prevents set back not the crimp.

[Hi-Power Jack]

If you are having a problem with set back increasing the crimp is not the right solution. The sizing of the brass is the problem. The case necks need to be smaller to put tension on the bullet when you seat it. Neck tension is what holds the bullet and prevents set back not the crimp.

+1.

[LPatterson]

To prevent setback, measure the case mouth at 90 degree points add thichness and divide by 4. Measure the diameter of the bullet at the base, add the diameter of the bullet plus twice the case thickness and subtract .001 for measurement errors. Put bullet on work bench and thumb on case head, press down and case should not move on bullet. 9mm is a tapered case and an EGW undersize die is a good investment.

[noylj]

Do something original:

Measure the case OD, ID and wall thickness before and after each stage. Let us know what the numbers are and you will very quickly determine what the problem is by comparing problem and no-problem cases.

My set-up is as follows:

1) size, and prime on down stroke

2) powder-activated powder measure adjusted to expand the case ID where the bullet will seat to 0.001-0.002" less than bullet diameter. Also, enough case mouth flare so the bullet does not contact the case mouth.

3) RCBS Lock-Out die. Never load without it. Don't accept any substitutes.

4) Seat the bullet (be sure the seater stem matches the bullet ogive

5) Crimp

Many problems are caused by trying to seat and crimp at the same time. They are two very different activities and doing is together means that the bullet is still being seated while the case is getting crimped into the bullet

6) Load a couple of inert rounds (no powder/primer) at the beginning to ensure the set-up is proper. Take barrel out of gun and use it as a case gage. Put on just enough "crimp" to remove the case mouth flare and have the inert rounds drop freely into the barrel

[SoulLessGinger]

Fc is shorter then win

No one listened to this guy, but I think he may have hit the nail on the head. Shorter cases will not enter the seater as deeply, affecting crimp

I recently had to mic every 9mm case I own and sort them first according to that. Then according to headstamp. Royal pain, but may solve your problem

Edited May 29, 2011 by SoulLessGinger

[revchuck]

Are you using hornaday dies? if you are mine would not size right. Went to a EGW die and have never looked back

Yes, I am. And the plot thickens. I guess I'll have to try a different sizer.

No need to go to the EGW die. A standard Lee sizer seems to size cases tighter than other brands. IIRC, Lee makes the EGW dies to EGW's specs.

I'm in the process of loading the last of my Bayou Bullets 135s with Lee dies in my 550, and am using mixed brass including FC and Blazer Brass with no problems.