What options for 1X optics?

[Kyle O]

Yep...Kyle, do you use the BDC on your XPS 2-2? At what distance?

Being of the KISS mindset, I like single dot. I don't use BDC in my scope, so why use it with a red dot?

If the reticle isn't "crisp" to you, you should be focusing on the target, not the scope.

250yd zero, [edit: the BOTTOM DOT] is dead on at 30 yards, and again at 500.

Edited May 18, 2011 by Kyle O

[Bryan 45]

The only dot I have any experience w/ is an Aimpoint, and it looks like one big, oblong, fuzzy blob due to my astigmatism. Of course a front sight post usually looks like it's bowed a little in the middle, and I've learned to live with it.

Edited May 18, 2011 by Bryan 45

[kellyn]

Other than the two mentioned plus the Leupold Prismatic (which appears to be a good scope as well), are there any other non-red dot 1x optics? DyNo, what is the Pris you mentioned a couple times (or is that short for Prismatics)?

I had the same question. I haven't spent much time with the non-red dot Trijicon and Mepro but both appear to have tinted lenses.

...The large reticle and the blue tint combine to cause me problems at ranges of 200 yards or more...

How does the tint affect shooting at 200 yards or more? I don't use 1x optics so I am trying to determine their pros and cons. I realize the Mepro 21 I am considering has a blue tint to its lens so I am interested in yours and others views on the subject.

A dirty grey sub 4MOA bullet marked piece of steel with no backer is already hard enough to see with the naked eye under some circumstances. Reducing the amount of light can make it invisible under the right circumstances. Heck, even with iron sights (and no tint), I recall having great difficulty on one set of targets at the 2010 Mississippi Multigun. The sun was low at the time and a set of black poppers with no backers were 200 yards away in low light under trees providing shade. When looking through a black aperture, those targets disappeared for me and the only reason I hit any of them was because I shot where I thought they might be.

The Leupold Prismatic - I don't know. As far as I can tell, it does not effect standard or illuminated reticles - at least not the ones I have seen - but I'm not sure how the Leupold works. The name implies it is reflecting something.

I haven't experienced any smearing of the reticule.

Addendum to my question: The Mepro and Trijicon are both Reflex sights - that is to say they are reflecting a light beam off of a glass surface in much the same way as a red dot does. I'm not certain if they are free of the smearing seen with red dots. I'm not sure how the Leupold works, but my assumption is that it is the same as any illuminated rifle scope but smaller and without magnification.

Yup, what I tell folks is that it's like a variable stuck on 1X.

I have a question about people using the Prismatic, how good is it when dealing with parallax? One of the things I like about plain red dots is that I can mount them pretty much anywhere as eye relief doesn't matter as much, and shooting from ackward positions is somewhat easier. How does that work with Prismatic which seems to have 'real' optics in it.

Kelly how do you deal with cant at longer ranges with the circle type reticule? It would seem that the crosshair type would help with that, thats one problem I have with pure dots.

Also how bright is the Prismatic in full sun.

You have to shoot it with the cheek weld you zeroed it with or you'll witness a POI shift. It is pretty forgiving but it is present and you can't float your face in front of it like a dot if you're shooting at a small target or at a distance. I'm not sure about Kelly but since the bottom of my rail is square, I just keep it parallel with the direction I think is down.

I've got a question for Kellyn as well. How do you approach shooting long distance targets? 400-550 yards. I'm working on getting a knob on mine and I'd love to see a BDC reticule if you can convince them to make it.

So far I've just been guestimating my holdovers. Dialing dope is usually a loser in 3 gun. And yes, I am trying get Leupold to put a BDC in the Pris.

[MickB]

Kelly, how about a different color for the BDC points with the ability to dial in separate elevation?

Would give the ability to tune each rifle with your load of choice.

Mick

[mmchambers06]

250yd zero, [edit: the BOTTOM DOT] is dead on at 30 yards, and again at 500.

Nice.

Have you ever used the wrong dot on accident?

[Kyle O]

250yd zero, [edit: the BOTTOM DOT] is dead on at 30 yards, and again at 500.

Nice.

Have you ever used the wrong dot on accident?

nope.

[mpeltier]

I will look thru mine tomorrow in the daylight looking into shaded areas. I do not recall that amount of blue looking thru mine. I think much of what's in those photos may be a bit of an anomoly of the camera sensors.

I hope you're right. Btw, which reticle are you using and how do you like it?

I am using the triangle. I like it much better than any other reticle.

I took the M21, Reflex II, Eotech, and the TR24R all outside and looked thru them side by side at a 6" steel plate with no paint. I tucked into the tree line at 100yds. If I could see it with the naked eye, I could see it just as well while looking thru all of the sights listed. The M21 was slightly darker than the rest, but not nearly as dark as my lightes Ray-Bans. Using both eyes open there was little to no distinction as to the tint. If I closed the support eye, you could notice a little change in the percieved brightness, but still see the target. Now, having said that, it would seems each person has varying degrees of color rendition, focus, astigmatism, etc. etc. In fact we have a guy at work who could not even see his reticule in the Eotech, as he is slightly color blind and never new it.

[mmchambers06]

nope.

I had a 2-2 but I didn't like the circle!

I wish I could get one with just the two dots, or better yet, an EOTech with 2 dots that you could zero/turn on and off independently. Wishful thinking.

[Kyle O]

nope.

I had a 2-2 but I didn't like the circle!

I wish I could get one with just the two dots, or better yet, an EOTech with 2 dots that you could zero/turn on and off independently. Wishful thinking.

My mind kind of recoiled in horror at first, but it's something you get used to.

Now I use the lower tick mark on the circle as my aiming point for any target 3-7 yards, it's right on.

No more holdovers at close range

[bagdrag]

I will look thru mine tomorrow in the daylight looking into shaded areas. I do not recall that amount of blue looking thru mine. I think much of what's in those photos may be a bit of an anomoly of the camera sensors.

I hope you're right. Btw, which reticle are you using and how do you like it?

I am using the triangle. I like it much better than any other reticle.

I took the M21, Reflex II, Eotech, and the TR24R all outside and looked thru them side by side at a 6" steel plate with no paint. I tucked into the tree line at 100yds. If I could see it with the naked eye, I could see it just as well while looking thru all of the sights listed. The M21 was slightly darker than the rest, but not nearly as dark as my lightes Ray-Bans. Using both eyes open there was little to no distinction as to the tint. If I closed the support eye, you could notice a little change in the percieved brightness, but still see the target. Now, having said that, it would seems each person has varying degrees of color rendition, focus, astigmatism, etc. etc. In fact we have a guy at work who could not even see his reticule in the Eotech, as he is slightly color blind and never new it.

Thanks for going through all the trouble.

Regarding the triangle reticle, any reason why you chose it over the bullseye reticle (or any of the other reticles)? Also, how do you range or determine your holdovers with the triangle reticle?

[Jadeslade]

With the reflex-you need to keep both eyes open. no way the tint washes out in the eye that is not behind the scope.

Yeah, I do keep both eyes open. Still washed out.

Ha! you are blue color blind. happens.

[Chuck Anderson]

Sorry. Not blue color blind and I've been tested several times for work. What else ya got?

[mpeltier]

I will look thru mine tomorrow in the daylight looking into shaded areas. I do not recall that amount of blue looking thru mine. I think much of what's in those photos may be a bit of an anomoly of the camera sensors.

I hope you're right. Btw, which reticle are you using and how do you like it?

I am using the triangle. I like it much better than any other reticle.

I took the M21, Reflex II, Eotech, and the TR24R all outside and looked thru them side by side at a 6" steel plate with no paint. I tucked into the tree line at 100yds. If I could see it with the naked eye, I could see it just as well while looking thru all of the sights listed. The M21 was slightly darker than the rest, but not nearly as dark as my lightes Ray-Bans. Using both eyes open there was little to no distinction as to the tint. If I closed the support eye, you could notice a little change in the percieved brightness, but still see the target. Now, having said that, it would seems each person has varying degrees of color rendition, focus, astigmatism, etc. etc. In fact we have a guy at work who could not even see his reticule in the Eotech, as he is slightly color blind and never new it.

Thanks for going through all the trouble.

Regarding the triangle reticle, any reason why you chose it over the bullseye reticle (or any of the other reticles)? Also, how do you range or determine your holdovers with the triangle reticle?

Sorry for the delay in a reply. Work and life has gotten in the way of play.

I like the triangle over other reticles for three reasons.

1) The tip of the triangle makes for a very precise aiming point that I use for the zero and long distance aiming referance.

2) It is self compensating for bore to sight offset at very close CQB distances. Forget the point and look at it like a dot sight and center the triangle where you want to hit. its almost cheating.

3) Knowing the height of the reticle makes it useful for ranging and holdover estimation. Used in conjunction with a set of ballistic tables, it is very simple to pre plan your long distance shots.

I use the non magnified triangle reticle for matches out to just over 200 yds. For my serious game gun I use the Trijicon TR24R. As far as ranging and holdovers go I dial in a different zero to suit the stage, and the turrets are very good for that. This typically allows a hold on the target that requires vey little holdover or holdunder, if any.

The secret to all this is doing your homework and having a good set of ballistic tables.

I personally find this much faster than the trial and error on each stage thats needed with a ballistic reticule. And its much simpler and cleaner a view thru the scope.

Edited May 21, 2011 by mpeltier

[Jadeslade]

Sorry. Not blue color blind and I've been tested several times for work. What else ya got?

idiosyncratic condition. some people can't fly helicopters either. I think this is why SOCOM has different options instead of one size fits all.

[Stlhead]

I am with Chuck, I tried the reflex but also found it to wash out, but I have never tried to fly a helicopter. Possibly that is my problem. If the reflex works for you be happy.

[barrysuperhawk]

Well, I can definitavely say a 4MOA dot is not good medicine for 10" plates at 400-500 yards...

I just lucked into one of those small Eotechs [sideways 123, standard dot/circle] so I am probably going to give it a go at Kentucky wildcat..

Somehow I have the feeling this is never going to end...

[Graham Smith]

Well, I can definitavely say a 4MOA dot is not good medicine for 10" plates at 400-500 yards...

I've tried a 2MOA dot and it's can be a bit hard to "pick up" when you are shooting fast at closer targets whereas a 4MOA dot is easy. On the other hand, 4MOA is 4" at 100yd, 8" at 200yd and 12" at 300yds. At 400yds, it's "plate, what plate, I don't see a plate".

This is why something like a circle dot or fine cross hairs may be a better choice. I've tried the EoTech and if it were not for my eyes, would probably have kept it, but to me it just looks like a tiny smear inside a ring of tiny smears.

I seem to recall some reflex sights where you could dial the size of the dot.

[Bryan 45]

Bushnell makes a 1x dot that has an adjustable size dot. From 1moa to 10moa.

http://bushnell.com/products/scopes/riflescopes/reddot/730001/

Of course it still takes batteries....

[Graham Smith]

Bushnell makes a 1x dot that has an adjustable size dot.

Interesting design. Auto intensity adjustment and a "zoom" dot. The only question is quality - street price is only $235. Some of the new Bushnell stuff is part of the Baush & Lomb optics that they bought out (I have one of these on my bolt action) and is pretty good, but there's still a lot of low end stuff around.

[bagdrag]

Bushnell makes a 1x dot that has an adjustable size dot. From 1moa to 10moa.

http://bushnell.com/products/scopes/riflescopes/reddot/730001/

Of course it still takes batteries....

Depending on the quality and ruggedness that looks pretty nifty. I wish the prismatic had this feature. I'm not sure what the reticle looks like but if it had a fixed/etched 18-20 MOA circle you could use that for ranging and even quicker target acquisition.

ETA: Lens looks tinted

Edited May 26, 2011 by bagdrag

[carbon9]

Bushnell makes a 1x dot that has an adjustable size dot. From 1moa to 10moa.

http://bushnell.com/products/scopes/riflescopes/reddot/730001/

Of course it still takes batteries....

Depending on the quality and ruggedness that looks pretty nifty. I wish the prismatic had this feature. I'm not sure what the reticle looks like but if it had a fixed/etched 18-20 MOA circle you could use that for ranging and even quicker target acquisition.

ETA: Lens looks tinted

I have one of these on my Nordic .22 upper and it is a blast. I wish it was a little brighter or adjustable for brightness(might have to try stacking batteries) during bright Arizona afternoons but it does work well for the $$$. I use it mostly at dusk for a .22 match and it is perfect. Crank up to 8-10 MOA for up close and down to 1-3 MOA for distance or accuracy. One of my friends has one on his AR-10 and it is holding up fine. The furthest he has shot it has been 300yds and it wasn't any problem at all with 1 MOA dot size. He is in his sixties and irons give him hell, this doesn't. It is slightly tinted but for $200......... Hell, some irons cost more then $200.

[barrysuperhawk]

It seems what might be the hot ticket is a 1-2 MOA dot that you can turn WAAAY up to get it to bloom for the close stuff, and a TARGET turret for Elevation that you could adjust on the fly with repeatable clicks. The problem seems to be that anything good under 200 yards SUCKS past that, but anything good pasy 200Y is going to suck up close...

[eric4069]

It seems what might be the hot ticket is a 1-2 MOA dot that you can turn WAAAY up to get it to bloom for the close stuff, and a TARGET turret for Elevation that you could adjust on the fly with repeatable clicks. The problem seems to be that anything good under 200 yards SUCKS past that, but anything good pasy 200Y is going to suck up close...

I haven't seen the C-more mentioned in this thread for use on an AR. How is the brightness of a 2 moa C-more dot compared to a 2 moa Aimpoint C3? Are they both bright enough to not wash out in sunny conditions? Are they bright enough to be "turned waaay up" for the close stuff?

Eric

Edited May 28, 2011 by eric4069

[Bryan 45]

The problem seems to be that anything good under 200 yards SUCKS past that, but anything good pasy 200Y is going to suck up close...

Which brings us back to iron sights.....

[RiggerJJ]

It seems what might be the hot ticket is a 1-2 MOA dot that you can turn WAAAY up to get it to bloom for the close stuff, and a TARGET turret for Elevation that you could adjust on the fly with repeatable clicks. The problem seems to be that anything good under 200 yards SUCKS past that, but anything good pasy 200Y is going to suck up close...

I haven't seen the C-more mentioned in this thread for use on an AR. How is the brightness of a 2 moa C-more dot compared to a 2 moa Aimpoint C3? Are they both bright enough to not wash out in sunny conditions? Are they bright enough to be "turned waaay up" for the close stuff?

Eric

I think the reason you haven't seen the C-More mentioned here, is because it is a royal pain to sight in. doing it on a pistol can take quite some time and a lot of rounds because of the chincy elevation/widndage adjustment system that won't hold where you put it, moves when you tighten the hold screws, and looses zero when you breath on it.

I can't imaging trying to sight one in at 300 yds on a rifle...

jj

Edited May 29, 2011 by RiggerJJ