The Draw

[Duane Thomas]

For years I've been moving my right and left hands at the same time during a draw. When being taught the draw I was warned sternly against "lazy left hand," the idea being that not moving both hands at the same time would slow down my draw. Then I started noticing some things. In Lenny Magill's IPSC Secrets video, he has Rob Leatham, in the studio with a .38 Super comp gun running blanks, doing a .55 second draw. Strangely enough, Robbie's right hand is on the gun and it's coming out of the holster before the left hand even begins to move.

Watched the Dry Fire tape in Jerry Barnhart's series, where he demonstrates descending par time practice of the draw, starting at 2.0 seconds and going down to .55 second. Jerry is very big on "symmetrical movement," moving the right and left hand at the same speed and at the same time. And to start with, at the slower times, that's exactly what he does. But I noticed, as the par times decreased, again his right hand began moving significantly before the left.

Thinking about this, it made sense. I noticed that in my own draw, when moving the right and left hand simultaneously, I'd wind up with the left hand against my chest above where the gun rotated to horizontal, then have to move it down to acquire the two-hand grip. When moving the left after the gun leaves the holster, just as it rotates to the horizontal, by contrast, my hand just comes up under the gun and slides smoothly into place. MUCH simpler and faster draw.

This simple change has made an immense improvement in my draw. Before, I was pushing it to get under 1.0 second from an unconcealed start. Now, let's just say it's really cool, when practicing a draw from concealment, to set the timer on 1.0 seconds, and hear the hammer click distinctly before the buzzer. Unconcealed is now going around .8 - dry fire, at least.

[Skywalker]

Interesting...

I was experimenting with the "slap-on-the-belly" thing to have my weak hand placed correctly to join the strong hand, and noticed this procedure slightly de-syncronized and delayed my WH movement from the SH one.

Food for thought, thanks Duane.

I will try to start the WH movement delayed from the SH and see what happens.

[Singlestack]

There is a thread here somewhere we were discussing this very thing awhile back. I feel like I knocked a solid 2~3 tenths off my draw by willing my WH still untill I cleared my holster and then moving it straight to the gun.

[Duane Thomas]

If I'd read that thread, I wouldn't have had to figure this out myself!

[Garfield]

Funny enough, just this saturday I taught 12 people of my club the first basics of IPSC, and I have taught them all to start moving the WH right away when the draw starts - just as I have been taught. I have even corrected a few people who didn't move their WH right away .

In your post however, you mention drawing with both hands moving at the same speed. I have never given the speed of the WH any thought, just as long as it's in front of my belly at the right time.

The way I have been taught to draw is as follows:

1. SH gripping gun, WH starting to move,

2. Gun clears holster, WH moves further,

3. SH + WH grip gun together in front of belly,

4. Gun is at eye level, close to face, sights are being picked up,

-- between 4 and 5 the safety (if applicable - I shoot Glock ) comes off,

5. Gun is driven onto target and the first shot breaks.

So what you are saying is that from 1 to 3 the WH moves (or is supposed to move) at the same speed as the RH ?

Very interesting stuff, I'll experiment with it and see where it brings me. I'll see if I can have a buddy make a few movies to analyse the speeds of both hands as I draw.

[Bill Schwab]

Interesting thread we have here, I had to look to see how I did it. My WH moves instantly, but not as a mirror image of my SH, instead my WH moved just shy of where it will meet the pistol. I'll have to try what you're saying Duane, I can use a few tenths off of my draw.

As I recall Brian spoke about this too, saying that some shooters, like Rob, could effectively move the WH instantly to where it will meet the pistol and others, himself, had to have the hands moving as a mirror image of each other.

[short_round]

Consider the following:

If both hands begin moving at the same time and you're trying to mirror the movements, do you "pause" the weak hand movement at the same time that your strong hand "pauses" when it is gripping the gun in the holster?

If you scoop the gun out of the holster this probably does not apply to you.

[short_round]

move the WH instantly to where it will meet the pistol

I would be afraid that my weak hand would outrun my strong hand and I could end up sweeping my weak hand. I try to keep my weak hand "behind" the barrel (touching my chest) and bring it forward after I have rotated the gun and it's pointing forward. My weak hand moves to the assembly point in the space between the front of the gun and my strong hand.

I borrowed/plagiarized/shamelessly stole alot from Matt Burkett's videos for how I draw. I like the pinch and roll assembly technique.

[schmitz]

My draw is horrible (1.3 at 7 yards at the best, hitting an A), symmetric movement was taught to me by Saul. I'm confused right now, reading this thread.

I'll check out my instuction-DVD's and play them in slow-motion and do what needs to be done.

DVC, Wile E.

[Rockwell]

Interesting! I will have to give it a try. I have been working a lot on my draw (trying to shave off a day or two). I have had a very bad case of lazy WH. I watched Matt Burkett's DVD's many times, and have since began to move the WH at the same time I go to the gun. It seems like I see the sights faster, and my first shot is much more accurate. But seeing these improvements, you have to realize that I am relatively new to the game and my draw is a cold syrup like 1.11 at seven yards, so I am open to any advice that is avaliable. Thanks.

[Ron Ankeny]

rockwell:

I review the timer at club matches when I RO. We have a lot of draws to wide open targets at seven yards or so from the start position. News flash guys, an A in 1.11, on demand, while not uncommon, is definately way faster than what I generally see being done.

[DogmaDog]

Ron,

Thanks for that. In my living room I get to a par time of about 1.5 seconds for a solid sight picture and click...the kind that would get me a certain A at about 10 yards. All this talk of 1.3 seconds being miserably slow was depressing me.

DD

[the duck of death]

I have no idea what my WH does. I'm concentrating on the draw. Somehow the WH gets there and it's not infront of the muzzle. I personally think the more you worry about this the more confused you'll get. I do rest my forearm on the butt of the gun as a reminder of where the gun is.

[Garfield]

All this talk of 1.3 seconds being miserably slow was depressing me.

No need for that !

The only one you really have to compete with, is yourself !

I don't care about draw times of other people (much), I just want to be content with my own performance. Some of my friends spend way more time practicing than I do, so it would be unfair of myself to expect the same kind of improvement of myself.

[ORCA]

If it works for you use it. I analize everything I do and try to figure out how to improve it. I think a lot of techniques come down to your personal comfort level with them. Keep on examining everything!!! Everytime I have a major breakthrough it comes from examination, not mindless repetition.

I'm a symetrical guy myself. I've watched a lot of videos and observed a lot of people and my draw isn't identical to any one persons. On the buzzer I jerk like someone who just got scared and I pull through the gun with no pause. I bring the gun up high and into the sight plain ASAP so I have more time to aquire the sights as I'm extending the gun. I pinch the gun between my fingers and palm as soon as I touch the gun and roll my palm around it on the way to the high position. I'm in the low .7's to high .6's on the draw at ten yards. I think my initial jump is the key to my speed, the gun into the sight plain early helps accuracy.

[benos]

The important thing, for this type of draw, is that your weak hand smoothly completes your grip as the strong hand/pistol passes by your stomach/solar plexus region. And as your strong hand must work much harder (than your weak hand) to get the gun to that point, their movements don't necessarily need to mirror each other. Even if they should both begin moving at the same instant, your weak hand will be moving slower to reach the "union point."

If your weak hand should arrive at the union point before the strong hand/pistol, of course that may slow down the total draw time.

As a result of clear intention, I think what's happening in the under .80 draw, is that the body knows the most important thing is to get the gun out of the holster and pointed at the target as quickly as possible. It also knows that the weak hand's role it to not interfere with this process, while at the same time completing the grip in a smooth, most non-interrupting way. Which is why, in the high-speed draw, the weak hand often feels like it's playing "catch up." Which reminds me of how the "gun feels" in a high-speed run - like it's barely keeping up with my vision.

be

[Rockwell]

As a result of clear intention, I think what's happening in the under .80 draw, is that the body knows the most important thing is to get the gun out of the holster and pointed at the target as quickly as possible. It also knows that the weak hand's role it to not interfere with this process, while at the same time completing the grip in a smooth, most non-interrupting way. Which is why, in the high-speed draw, the weak hand often feels like it's playing "catch up." Which reminds me of how the "gun feels" in a high-speed run - like it's barely keeping up with my vision.

be

WOW!! I started reading your book, (sometimes don't always understand what I read), then I will go to the range to practice, or go to a match, and little bits and peices from the book start making sense to me. I get thinking about all of the mechanics involved in a draw and worrying about too much, when all I need to be doing is getting the gun from the holster and into the A zone as fast as possible by just letting it happen, instead of forcing it. Maybe I think too much. Thanks!

Ron-

I have been doing a drill in practice where I draw and fire one shot at 7 yards, and log my time and hits. I have not got one yet (25 draw and shoot runs) that all 25 shots have been A's, but I am getting closer. I came up with the 1.11 average by adding up and dividing my times in practice. I do not know what my average draw in a match is, I will have to start asking the Ro and see how it compares to my practice. Thanks for the encouragement about my time not being below average. Hope I am on the right track.

[EricW]

Crap!

Just when I think I'm cleaning up my draw....I read a thread....and start thinking again. I'm gonna go sit in the corner now and not think anymore.

[Ron Ankeny]

Rockwell:

I think we all know how important the draw is in a match, especially on speed shoots and standards. All I am saying is some shooters fall into the trap of working exclusively on one skill set to the exclusion of other components. I know I have been guilty. By all means keep working on the draw, it is a critical component. However, getting a good grip, decent sight picture, good hits in the beginning, and being set for the rest of the stage might be worth a couple of tenths added to the draw. Others may feel differently.

[rhino]

It does get a little tiresome when we real slowpokes read about people having 1.0 - 1.3 second draws and complaining about how slow they are. If you can do that consistently in match, you'll do well.

[EricW]

It does get a little tiresome when we real slowpokes read about people having 1.0 - 1.3 second draws and complaining about how slow they are. If you can do that consistently in match, you'll do well.

IPSC long courses, yes. But, not on steel challenge matches and short courses you can't. I'm giving up a second per stage on my POS draw on steel matches. That's five seconds I threw away the last match. The time difference between the winning shooter and me at the last match: about 8.5 seconds. Fixing my draw would have put me up 3 places in the standings. Fixing my draw and getting my head out of my ass before I went to the line - I coulda been a contender.

The details matter.

[BigDave]

IPSC long courses, yes. But, not on steel challenge matches and short courses you can't. I'm giving up a second per stage on my POS draw on steel matches. That's five seconds I threw away the last match.

Rhino - he's right. I know my POS draw at the steel matches is averaging about 2.0 (hold your laughter ) and over the course of 25 draws, I can guess I'm giving up 20 seconds per match. At our match, that was the difference between 7th and 3rd, and for you; 9th and 4th. Same goes for classifiers. On two string standards, I know I'm giving up at least 2 seconds. Thats huge.

[Steve Anderson]

Of all the techniques we practice, I feel like the draw is the most susceptible to the "trick of the day." It seems like focusing on something different on the draw can bring good improvement. Here a few things that may help:

1. If you find yourself missing the grip, really stare at the letter A on the target. This seems to bolster the desire to shoot an A OVER the desire to perform a .6 draw. Usuall you will get both if you really look at the A

2. As you place the gun in the holster, make note of the position of your strong hand shoulder and maintain that position as you comply with the start position. This alone gets me from a .7 to a .6 in dry fire.

(BTW, I combined the two points above to fire my fastest ever draw in a bill drill last Thursday )

3. You might play with your holster position and see what it does for you. I find that I draw faster with my CR speed a little farther back, even though the elbow feels a little more "angled" with the strong hand on the gun. Others do better with the holster further forward. My preference probably gores back to my production roots.

Good luck and happy practicing,

SA

[rhino]

Rhino - he's right. I know my POS draw at the steel matches is averaging about 2.0 (hold your laughter ) and over the course of 25 draws, I can guess I'm giving up 20 seconds per match. At our match, that was the difference between 7th and 3rd, and for you; 9th and 4th. Same goes for classifiers. On two string standards, I know I'm giving up at least 2 seconds. Thats huge.

I wasn't implying that the draw isn't very important and that faster isn't better.

I was just saying that a consistent 1.0 to 1.3 second is not a slow draw. It may not satisfy a given individual, but it's hardly "slow."

[Rockwell]

Ron- Thanks for the tips. While I was at the range today, I noticed that if I really rushed my draw, I had a bad grip about half of the time which ended up costing me on the paper. When I just let the draw happen, I ended up with a good grip, and that also showed on paper. Funny thing is that the draw times were not that much faster, sometimes even slower by rushing it. I think you are right about focusing too much on one skill. By smoothing out all aspects of my game, it could save me a lot of time on a lot of stages and even get higher scores. I am guilty of being fascinated with the .80 second draw! Thanks again for your help!