seadevil10 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Im looking to start shooting limited and a good friend of mine recomended getting a used para 16-40 to start with. I was wondering if yall could help me decide on what modifications or additions I would need to make to get it running fast and smooth. I was looking at getting dawson base pads for the mags and a dawson magwell. I was also wondering what tubes will fit. \ I really appreciate the help guys thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaGunner Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I would suggest getting a P-16 LIMITED model. The Limited model comes with adjustable sights and a ambi-safety. I would also suggest using factory para mags, para followers and DP basepads with either factory para mag springs or ISMI 140mm para mag springs. You should get 21rounds of 40cal reloadable in each mag with very little tuning. In fact the only tuning will probably be sanding the mag followers a little which explained in detail in the instructions that come with the DP basepads. Other then that maybe a little tweaking of the gun springs and your of to the races. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I started with a Para, Dawson Magwell and Dawson base pads. I polished the mags inside and out, popped the base pads on and had 21 round mags. I had a trigger job done on the factory parts and I shot it for a couple of months, but then had a chance to buy a used Brazo's. I never had any problems with the Para, ran factory ammo and loaded long ammo, was accurate and even with the Power Extractor never had issues. That being said I would not buy another, not after shooting the Brazo's and my other Jim Anglin built Limited gun. I have had George Huening trim and stipple the grip and they both are under cut, they just fit my hand better and feel better to shoot. They balance better I would recommend looking for a used STI or SV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckaroo45 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I suggest : Para mag bodies only - $30 from Para - polish in and out and run w/ NO lubrication in the mag; Dawson followers and extensions; aftermarket mag springs like ISMI - rough finish on some makes sometimes sticks; first time you have a FTE install an Aftec extractor and you won't have another; ICE magwell; find a rubbery type (like Hogue) grip that feels good; Dawson FO sights - adjustable; I use a DoubleAlpha RaceMaster holster and CR Speed belt. I load a Zero 180 gr TCFP jacketed bullet w/5.0 WST at 1.19. Took me a year to sort the gun out but it now runs 100%. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ I believe it will come to a point where we as gun owners and constitutionalists will need to use our guns in defense of our country, constitution, personal liberties and our lives. May God have mercy on the souls of those that try to take any of these things from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Nukem Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Its not fair to compare a $900.00 gun to a 2500.00 cutsom. I have both Para and STIs the Para is 90% of an STI at 50% of the cost. In fact the STI didn't run out of the box the Para did. I started with a Para, Dawson Magwell and Dawson base pads. I polished the mags inside and out, popped the base pads on and had 21 round mags. I had a trigger job done on the factory parts and I shot it for a couple of months, but then had a chance to buy a used Brazo's. I never had any problems with the Para, ran factory ammo and loaded long ammo, was accurate and even with the Power Extractor never had issues. That being said I would not buy another, not after shooting the Brazo's and my other Jim Anglin built Limited gun. I have had George Huening trim and stipple the grip and they both are under cut, they just fit my hand better and feel better to shoot. They balance better I would recommend looking for a used STI or SV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 By the time you get that $900 and changte out all the parts and sights etc, it is not a $900, it is a Para with $300-400 with of stuff on it that you will never get your money back out of, when you can find used STI and SVI for a couple hundred bucks more. Its not fair to compare a $900.00 gun to a 2500.00 cutsom. I have both Para and STIs the Para is 90% of an STI at 50% of the cost. In fact the STI didn't run out of the box the Para did. I started with a Para, Dawson Magwell and Dawson base pads. I polished the mags inside and out, popped the base pads on and had 21 round mags. I had a trigger job done on the factory parts and I shot it for a couple of months, but then had a chance to buy a used Brazo's. I never had any problems with the Para, ran factory ammo and loaded long ammo, was accurate and even with the Power Extractor never had issues. That being said I would not buy another, not after shooting the Brazo's and my other Jim Anglin built Limited gun. I have had George Huening trim and stipple the grip and they both are under cut, they just fit my hand better and feel better to shoot. They balance better I would recommend looking for a used STI or SV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHARLES D Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 +1 on the Brazos if you got some extra cash. Bob is top notch on his pistol work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Halley Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Its not fair to compare a $900.00 gun to a 2500.00 cutsom. I have both Para and STIs the Para is 90% of an STI at 50% of the cost. In fact the STI didn't run out of the box the Para did. Yeah it's really not fair to the custom is it? Para is a production 1911. STI is a Custom-Production 1911. SVI is a custom 1911. As far as performance goes who can really say? All I know is my Para ran like a champ whenever I used it. I have seen STI's run solidly as well. The mags are more reliable stock from Para than STI IMHO. You can't gripe for half price. Go for the limited model and give it a whirl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaGunner Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 By the time you get that $900 and changte out all the parts and sights etc, it is not a $900, it is a Para with $300-400 with of stuff on it that you will never get your money back out of, when you can find used STI and SVI for a couple hundred bucks more. Its not fair to compare a $900.00 gun to a 2500.00 cutsom. I have both Para and STIs the Para is 90% of an STI at 50% of the cost. In fact the STI didn't run out of the box the Para did. I started with a Para, Dawson Magwell and Dawson base pads. I polished the mags inside and out, popped the base pads on and had 21 round mags. I had a trigger job done on the factory parts and I shot it for a couple of months, but then had a chance to buy a used Brazo's. I never had any problems with the Para, ran factory ammo and loaded long ammo, was accurate and even with the Power Extractor never had issues. That being said I would not buy another, not after shooting the Brazo's and my other Jim Anglin built Limited gun. I have had George Huening trim and stipple the grip and they both are under cut, they just fit my hand better and feel better to shoot. They balance better I would recommend looking for a used STI or SV I got about $1000 in mine and it's perfect for me and runs 100% I have beat plenty of other shooters with their $2500 STIs and SVs in the same classification. I don't plan on ever selling mine,I'm just going to continue to kick but all the way up the ladder with my Para. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soaringf22 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I agree with most of what Roy has said, i use the 14-45 but mec-gar has worked better for me i use the DP basepads, S&A heavy magwell. For some reason my para mags always are tight in my 14-45 and SSP. but with novak mags on the single stack and mec-gar mags my handloads fit. Maybe its just me. my 38 super para open uses para mags with para guts and para basepad, that combo just works better than the others ive tried. so it is trial and error. but definately go with the limited model, its a lot less after market parts to buy,but if you are like me you will swap them out anyway. also I have a 2 3/4 reliable trigger. Im not a huge fan of para or their customer service however I enjoy this gun too much to stop shooting it even if .45 is a handicap (debatable) something to try, para grips are a bit slippery in my opinion i have have after market heave textured grips that work, or the caspian style wraparound. i did put the grips on the belt sander to get them thinner for my small hands on a widebody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Para v. STI. Both can be very good pistols with some great work. One advantage the Para may have is in mag capacity and the other in investment costs. Both pistols need the same general modifications. 1. Mag Well 2. Trigger job 3. Reliability job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seadevil10 Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 sweet thanks guys i really appreciate all of the suggestions. Im new to USPSA ive been shooting production for about 6 months with my glock 17 gen4 but I wanted to switch to limited to have a bit more fun. I think until I graduate college I will stick to a limited para becasue it will be about a third or half the cost of an open gun right now. can anyone post some picture of their para gun and rig I would really like to see what people are using and hopefully when I get mine I will have some great ideas to go off of. I think im just gonna start with the basics and this is what I have down so far. 1. a para p16 limited 2.standard para tubes with dawson BP's and maybe grams internals if they fit, if not which ones are best? 3. fiber optic sights can anyone make any good suggestions for a trigger or do I just need to have a gunsmith smooth it and change the pull. Im new and my more experianced friends tell me to stick with a 3 pound trigger till I make master. which is gonna take many years But as i said if anyone can post some pics and suggestions for a good shopping list to get me started I would be very greatfull because the only thing I know about limited are some of the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seadevil10 Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 I would suggest getting a P-16 LIMITED model. The Limited model comes with adjustable sights and a ambi-safety. I would also suggest using factory para mags, para followers and DP basepads with either factory para mag springs or ISMI 140mm para mag springs. You should get 21rounds of 40cal reloadable in each mag with very little tuning. In fact the only tuning will probably be sanding the mag followers a little which explained in detail in the instructions that come with the DP basepads. Other then that maybe a little tweaking of the gun springs and your of to the races. should I have a gunsmith tweek the springs or is that something I can do myself. And where can I get ISMI springs and are they better than the grams ones my friends use on their raceguns? thanks Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrf Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I would suggest getting a P-16 LIMITED model. The Limited model comes with adjustable sights and a ambi-safety. I would also suggest using factory para mags, para followers and DP basepads with either factory para mag springs or ISMI 140mm para mag springs. You should get 21rounds of 40cal reloadable in each mag with very little tuning. In fact the only tuning will probably be sanding the mag followers a little which explained in detail in the instructions that come with the DP basepads. Other then that maybe a little tweaking of the gun springs and your of to the races. I made the mistake when I was new and bought a GI p1640 off Gunbroker not knowing what I was getting. The gun runs like a freaking top but no adjustable sights and smaller grip safety if you don't get a limited. No ambis either. The lower is race ready after some work from an anonymous gunsmith but I still need to get a bomar cut on the slide. Mine is an older Canadian built one (2001) but 5000 rounds of the cheapest shelf ammo I can find and it has never jammed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaGunner Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I would suggest to run a 18lb mainspring,12lb-14lb recoil spring and maybe get a different sear spring or adjust the one in the gun. If you don't feel comfortable adjusting the sear spring don't. Since my P-16 is strictly a competition gun I removed all the series 80 crap and installed a spacer in the frame. That really helped the trigger. I get all my parts from Brownells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soaringf22 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 +1 for Brownells Let me ask a few questions first. Where are you located? maybe someone or myself can recommend a local smith where you avoid paying $80 in just shipping. Are you in the military by any chance or have a friend or relative that lives near you in the military or police? Brownells gives discounts to us. The other thing is dont spend money on after market internals mag pieces just yet, too many people have success with factory spring and follower. DP basepads with that discount are only $20 at brownells. You should be fine with what comes with the limited model remember nothing is 100% "drop-in" now for mainspring and recoil spring, mainspring should stay 18-19 pounds on a limited gun with an unlightened slide and sometimes even after. the recoil spring on the other hand if you are new to the gun is different. the slide comes back when the gun is fired a heavier spring will reduce the straight back recoil but increase the dip. but this is generally a better way to go until you get completely used to the gun and its recoil. however a light spring is a little trickier, the slide will recoil faster and have less dip but you will notice it on the the straight back recoil being harsher. on a .40 gun 12-16ln recoil springs are the norm, you should try a 15lb spring and work your way down from there. springs are cheap enough that you can buy a boat load and play all day. The series 80 garbage in your gun can be done by you or the gunsmith. if you have the ability. but once you change that you might as well use brownells or egw and get the egw sear and disconnector, koenig hammer if you feel like splurging a little more. when spending money on this project remember that the double stack competition para wont really lose value. it wont gain value by the after market but if you decide to go with a different gun later on you should be able to get a decent dollar back if you sell it. if you buy used chances are you can get at least 85% of your initial investment back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirpy Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) I bought my P16 Limited used w/5 mags w/Dawson pads on some, an aftermarket mag release and a S&A MagwellMSH for under $500. Needed a new FO front sight and TJwith new trigger, but loaded to 1.2 it was 100%. Richard PS: If I was younger w/younger eyes and my same income as before I retired I'd go with an STI/SV. Edited February 17, 2011 by chirpy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 saw this on another website seems a little high but this is the older model with out the power extractor http://ingunowners.com/forums/-handguns/132854-para_ordnance_16_40_limited.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seadevil10 Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 +1 for Brownells Let me ask a few questions first. Where are you located? maybe someone or myself can recommend a local smith where you avoid paying $80 in just shipping. Are you in the military by any chance or have a friend or relative that lives near you in the military or police? Brownells gives discounts to us. The other thing is dont spend money on after market internals mag pieces just yet, too many people have success with factory spring and follower. DP basepads with that discount are only $20 at brownells. You should be fine with what comes with the limited model remember nothing is 100% "drop-in" now for mainspring and recoil spring, mainspring should stay 18-19 pounds on a limited gun with an unlightened slide and sometimes even after. the recoil spring on the other hand if you are new to the gun is different. the slide comes back when the gun is fired a heavier spring will reduce the straight back recoil but increase the dip. but this is generally a better way to go until you get completely used to the gun and its recoil. however a light spring is a little trickier, the slide will recoil faster and have less dip but you will notice it on the the straight back recoil being harsher. on a .40 gun 12-16ln recoil springs are the norm, you should try a 15lb spring and work your way down from there. springs are cheap enough that you can buy a boat load and play all day. The series 80 garbage in your gun can be done by you or the gunsmith. if you have the ability. but once you change that you might as well use brownells or egw and get the egw sear and disconnector, koenig hammer if you feel like splurging a little more. when spending money on this project remember that the double stack competition para wont really lose value. it wont gain value by the after market but if you decide to go with a different gun later on you should be able to get a decent dollar back if you sell it. if you buy used chances are you can get at least 85% of your initial investment back. I live in Corpus Christi TX, I was thinking of having Benny hill and Don hardy look over the gun when I find one but I don't know what Benny charges. I'm not in the military Im in college working a minimum wage job so Im looking for the most economical solution unless I have cash left over for parts but I may be able to find a friend or club member that can get me the parts I need. I will probable go with stock para mags and DP base pads. but I do have a grams spring kit I may try just to see how it works. how much will the Koenig hammer and egw sear and disconnecter help as this will be my first semi custom gun and im trying to figure out what i need to start and what parts should logically follow but I'm hoping to get this gun ready for space city or the lost double tap if i can come up with match fees after the gun also im not sure if it will be ready in times but who knows what will happen. Ive seen a lot of different price ranges for para limiteds and standards I was wondering what everybody thought a good price would be. There is a gun show here in march and hopefully ill have the money. Don said 800 with mags but Ive seen them go alot cheaper. what do you guys think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seadevil10 Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 I bought my P16 Limited used w/5 mags w/Dawson pads on some, an aftermarket mag release and a S&A MagwellMSH for under $500. Needed a new FO front sight and TJwith new trigger, but loaded to 1.2 it was 100%. Richard PS: If I was younger w/younger eyes and my same income as before I retired I'd go with an STI/SV. Is 500 what I should be looking for as a price? also do I really need the limited edition, thats what I want but I was wondering if the regular edition would work because im right handed and dont really need the ambi safety. there is another difference but I cant remember what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seadevil10 Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 saw this on another website seems a little high but this is the older model with out the power extractor http://ingunowners.com/forums/-handguns/132854-para_ordnance_16_40_limited.html Is the power extractor a good or bad thing. In fact I must ask what the power extractor does? I know I'm showing a lack of knowledge but i'm not afraid to ask questions. And I wont turn down any good advice from the good people here on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianATL Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I think most people would prefer the traditional extractor that is on the older model Para's. Mine had the traditional extractor which I swapped out for an Aftec extractor. Mine ran like a top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 The power extractor was Para answer to what they considered the ultimate extractor, it has a much larger surface on it, was hinged in the center of. Mine worked fine, but others have had less than diserable results I lucked out when I bought mine, I got a 35% off retail certificate and I bought the Para Covert, same features as the Limited with ambi's, adjustable sights etc, but finished in black, it was $617 shipped to my FFL. The finish was not very tough and had alot of metal showing through on the high spots after a few matches. I had put a mag button on there and kept dropping mags, so it came off. I left the black target front sight on it. http://www.genitron.com/HandgunDB/DB-Handgun-Detail.asp?ID=2514 Barrel lock up was nice and tight, but after a couple thousand rounds the slide to frame fit started have some noticeable play in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soaringf22 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 the para extractor came out of all 3 of my paras, not a fan good idea poor execution on para's part. i was able to fit an ed brown without any problems that cost $30 and i did not need the sleeve to make it fit and has been reliable since. you are in a great location for smiths, however I would advise against any to start unless you absolutely have to use one. you will spend at least $300 on parts and labor if you go to a smith and if you find a gun at $700 now youre talking over a grand to get rolling. that now defeats the purpose of your conservative method. once over a grand might as well hold out another $200 and find the occasional $1200 STI that come through the classifieds here. dont forget you still have to buy the mags and ammo which will add another $200 to your overall cost to shoot your first match assuming you have a belt holster and pouches. not to get your hopes up but i doubt you will find the 16-40 for $500 i really think anything under $700 is a bargain especially if that comes with the mags. forget what i said about the egw internals and koenig hammer, those are alterations you make to the gun as time goes on not worth the money when on a budget and time constraint. ammo is where you need to spend the most money not gizmos, the limited model comes with most everything you need to get on the range. if you dont get the limited you will end up paying more money to have new sight cuts milled, new bomar sights, ambi-safety, extended beavertail, memory grove grip safety, new front sight cut, new front sight post. to name a few its cheaper to buy the limited from the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soaringf22 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 dont let the gun fool you I had Matt Cheely do internal lightening on the slide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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