Pivoting trigger system

[gmantwo]

Got a couple of friends with these on their guns and with very limited use myself, I thought I'd get some input from a wider audience. Let me know what those of you who have or are using them think. They seem to work very well, but are on the pricey side so the more informed the better. Thanks, Greg

Edited January 14, 2011 by gmantwo

[bbbean]

Got a couple of friends with these on their guns and with very limited use myself, I thought I'd get some input from a wider audience. Let me know what those of you who have or are using them think. They seem to work very well, but are on the pricey side so the more informed the better. Thanks, Greg

I always thought one of the primary selling points of a 1911 was that straight trigger pull. The only thing I don't like about my High Power is that it doesn't have a 1911 style trigger.

Who makes a pivot trigger for the 1911? How does it work?

[Corey]

I cant imagine getting rid of the heavenly 1911 trigger

[Resjudicata]

I don't know who makes a pivoting trigger kit for the 1911. However, one benefit of pivoting triggers I've seen is that the leverage allows for a lighter trigger pull, but the trade off is more trigger movement.

Chris

Edited January 14, 2011 by Resjudicata

[gmantwo]

Well, I guess it doesn't matter, the pivot trigger is no longer made by the manufacturer. Talked to them this morning and they stopped production a couple of years ago. If anyone has one or 3 they'd like to sell, I'm buying.

The trigger on my friends guns is literally less than a pound, and very reliable. No following, no falling to safety notch.

[twodownzero]

I cant imagine getting rid of the heavenly 1911 trigger

Me either.

I also can't imagine wanting to deal with the quirks of a 100 year old design if it didn't have that amazing single action trigger.

[eerw]

from what I was told.

pivoting trigger, because of the leverage design you can get a lighter feeling trigger without having to cut hooks so short. the give up is more movement of the trigger.

Here is the patent for the Guncraft Pivoting trigger

US4955155.pdf

Edited January 14, 2011 by eerw

[Resjudicata]

That's strange. They are using a pivoting trigger to move the straight trigger bow without getting the benefit of a pivoting trigger. There is no lever action in that system. I definitely would not get that kit as you don't get any of the benefit.

Chris

[rishii]

from what I was told.

pivoting trigger, because of the leverage design you can get a lighter feeling trigger without having to cut hooks so short. the give up is more movement of the trigger.

Here is the patent for the Guncraft Pivoting trigger

+1

I bought one built in the 80's by belhert?

this was before the ultra light hammers and ti sear spring of today, back then a factory colt commander hammer was about as high tech as it got, trigger pulls under 4 lbs were spooky and unless built right, the hammer would follow.

the pivoting trigger allowed for a lighter trigger pull with fairly high hammer hooks without the worrying about hammer follow, I once dropped in a set of Chip McCormick Ti hammer and sears in the gun and it was spooky light.

[gmantwo]

If you ever see one, try it out before you poo poo it. Absolutely amazing trigger feel. We'll be at several matches this summer, look for us to see it.

I've got a feeling that's why they went out of production, people unwilling to try something they were positive wouldn't work, or couldnt be any better By the time they started being tried they're gone. At least 3 of my shooting buddies are looking for these now. And we'd each buy 2-3 of them for different guns

Edited January 14, 2011 by gmantwo

[Resjudicata]

If you ever see one, try it out before you poo poo it. Absolutely amazing trigger feel. We'll be at several matches this summer, look for us to see it.

I've got a feeling that's why they went out of production, people unwilling to try something they were positive wouldn't work, or couldnt be any better By the time they started being tried they're gone. At least 3 of my shooting buddies are looking for these now. And we'd each buy 2-3 of them for different guns

I wasn't poo pooing the idea of a pivoting trigger. But, the one posted by EERW just doesn't look like it would give you the benefit of the pivoting trigger. I've seen another one that was a pivoting trigger that I think gave you the benefit of the lever to give a lighter trigger pull but with longer travel. I think it either activated the trigger bar differently than the one EERW posted or used a different trigger bar connection.

I'd like to try one made correctly. I know if have a lighter and very safe trigger in a CZ SAO because of this very property.

Any way you can post photos of your friend's parts? Preferably both installed and out of the gun?

Chris

[G-ManBart]

If this truly was a "better" mousetrap, the idea wouldn't have died.

Pivoting triggers = longer trigger travel, which makes it harder to shoot very fast, accurate splits, regardless of weight. That's part of the beauty of a standard single-action trigger like a 1911...very little trigger movement. That also gives you less distance to make a mistake in

Edited January 15, 2011 by G-ManBart

[ima45dv8]

That also gives you less distance to make a mistake in

That hasn't stopped me.

[G-ManBart]

That also gives you less distance to make a mistake in

That hasn't stopped me.

[gmantwo]

Ed's headed to the shot show and I'm on the boat, but I'll post some pics soon as I can.

If there's much more movement than on my Bob Marvel STI I sure didn't notice it.

[Sean Gaines]

claudio at Briley has done some in the past, but he says they are fairly hard to do. but it makes the trigger feel extremely light due to the added leverage.

[jaredr]

If this truly was a "better" mousetrap, the idea wouldn't have died.

actually, in it's time i believe it was a better mousetrap (if the objective is to provide a safe sub-2lb trigger pull). what i think "killed" it wasn't that it was a bad idea, but that this feature was an expensive and labor intensive piece of work that required a skilled pistolsmith (no kitchen table filework and drillpress). This was only worth getting done when there were no easier or more cost effective alternatives. fast forward 25 years and improvements in manufacturing technology allow boneheads like me to go to brownells and buy a koenig ultra light hammer, EGW sear, and get a drop-in trigger group that's equal to what took people hours of labor to weld up and file down back in the 80's. way back when, the guncraft pivoting trigger was a neat idea that provided some reduction (at least perceived reduction) in trigger pull. Today, not sure there's a need to pursue it given how (comparatively) easy it is to now get a 100% reliable 2lb trigger from any of the master pistolsmiths who support our sport.

edited because I can't spell...

Edited January 16, 2011 by jaredr

[photog]

If this truly was a "better" mousetrap, the idea wouldn't have died.

actually, in it's time i believe it was a better mousetrap (if the objective is to provide a safe sub-2lb trigger pull). what i think "killed" it wasn't that it was a bad idea, but that this feature was an expensive and labor intensive piece of work that required a skilled pistolsmith (no kitchen table filework and drillpress). This was only worth getting done when there were no easier or more cost effective alternatives. fast forward 25 years and improvements in manufacturing technology allow boneheads like me to go to brownells and buy a koenig ultra light hammer, EGW sear, and get a drop-in trigger group that's equal to what took people hours of labor to weld up and file down back in the 80's. way back when, the guncraft pivoting trigger was a neat idea that provided some reduction (at least perceived reduction) in trigger pull. Today, not sure there's a need to pursue it given how (comparatively) easy it is to now get a 100% reliable 2lb trigger from any of the master pistolsmiths who support our sport.

edited because I can't spell...

Exactly right. Many better mousetraps fail in the market because of poor marketing, difficult installation, or simply not being at the right place at the right time. Looking at this idea, it looks to solve a problem we no longer have, or it just doesn't 'seem' right to some people. Gotta remember, 1911's have a traditionalist following, and the average 1911 owner is NOT going to try some new wiz-bang trigger on their gun. IPSC racers are not the average 1911 owner.

[gmantwo]

Thanks to Carmoney, I just bought one. But the shop he hooked me up with only had one. My buddy is at the SHOT show and talked to Cylinder & Slide today, they're interested in starting to produce them again. He had one on a single stack he said he could use as a pattern if he decides to bring them back. Thanks a bunch Carmoney.

When these were introduced they were $120 and a good trigger cost $25. Now a good trigger will set you back $70-85, so they are not as far out of line as they were. With CNC machining, I'd bet they can still be made and sold for nearly the same price.

[gmantwo]

Anyone else have a line on one, let me know. Para, single stack, any on them.

[m1normando]

One of my vintage Behlert guns had a pivoting trigger system and I really liked it but it did take a little while getting familiar. Might be a good way to go on a carry gun.

[mike cyrwus]

For triggers; light aint everything. actually, its only icing on the cake. Provided the cake is nice and moist and chocolatey.

[tunakilla]

Resjudicata, what you can't see from the drawings is that there is a setscrew thru the bottom of the triggerguard that would hold the trigger shoe in place. So it did work like a pivoting trigger. By moving the trigger shoe forward and back that provided the over travel adjustment.

There were a few Gunsmiths that would mill a slot/make trigger and convert the 1911 to a pivot but this was very time consuming but did result in nice trigger pulls, but at the expense of longer trigger travel.

The Guncraft system never really caught on as better hammers and sears started to appear about the same time.

Not for me but, i installed a few

Edited January 22, 2011 by tunakilla

[gmantwo]

Received the Trigger system today. Here are pics. I'll post some installed pics soon as my buddy gets it put in,LOL.

These are the parts

Here you can see how they relate. The trigger bow is simply one with a post welded to it. That post goes through the part of the set-up that gets held in place with the set screw. The back of the trigger rests against and acts upon this post. Very simple system that works very well to reduce "felt" pull weight.