ninemmbill Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Can anyone advise -- are the range and bays accessible easily via regular passenger cars or are SUV/truck/high clearance vehicles recommended? Thanks! We rented a mini van. I guess we better get the walk away insurance! You shouldn't have a problem with any regular passenger car, just don't bring out anything that's lowered. Save "The Fast and the Furious" for the shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 There are/were many reasons that USPSA 3-Gun matches don't/didn't fill up and none of it has to do with major/minor, hit factor scoring. The main thing is the match was designed by people who shoot pistols, not 3-gun so the stages were at best lack lust to a 3-gunner. It was never held in the same place and it always had a different crew running it. This is what was really killing USPSA 3-Gun. Thankfully this is changing and this is the second year at Las Vegas and it will be an outstanding 3-gun match. The pluses of USPSA is CONSISTENT RULES over the years. No year to year changes in what pistol is leagl in H.M. no year to year changes in what magazine can be strapped to what magazine and how or what mag can and can't be used. No "this holster is baned and this one is ok" only to find out the next year the reverse is true. BTW, S.O.F., the match that all 3-Gun sprung from ALWAYS had major/minor scoring and it filled to the brim every year, well before any other entity at all was even contemplating a 3-gun match, so let,s not be too broad in our statements. As for a personal veiw on mag limits to 30 rounds for tac rifles, I fail to see what it will accomplish. You will find that all the top guys and gals know how change mags already. The guy who doesn't get a lot of practice will be hindered slightly and the new shooter, who doesn't have any of it figured out will be punished. If you are looking to stratisfy the results more, there are easier ways to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benelli2 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Not suprising I have to agree with with ol' mr. weakhand on everything he said, and also being one of the guys that has been doing this since the SOF days there are lots of reasons any match fills or doesn't, is good or bad. Most of which comes down to who is running and helping run the match, and consistency and experience here most times helps that immensely. As you see at most successful outlaw 3 Gun matches, we network and colaborate with others to help with decisions, stage designs, new ideas. Trying to do it all in a vaccumm is seldom successful. That is a big plus for the range and folks running this match, the more 3 gun experience the staff and RO's can get in this arena and having RO's with the right attitudes will continue to make this match better and better each year. They are receptive and working hard to make it the match we all want it to be, a true nationals and a fun time! And Daniels gun can't be a wildcat, as the rules for Tac Optics don't allow prototypes, all guns must be factory configured to promote an level playing field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Religious Shooter wrote: Given that the folks behind the 300 BLK has put a $10K bounty on the Nationals title. I'm sure you will see a lot of the pro/sponsored shooters switch. HUH!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 benelli2 wrote: And Daniels gun can't be a wildcat, as the rules for Tac Optics don't allow prototypes, all guns must be factory configured to promote an level playing field. My first gut reaction to that is that simply is not correct. As I understand USPSPA "production" rules (which I am gathering from whence some of the multigun rules came), the "gun" applies only to the mechanical function of the gun....basically, is it something entirely new/different? I am guessing Daniel is shooting some sort of AR-ish platform, which there have actually been exactly 1.2 bazillion copies of that design made. In short, I am thinking that rule doesn't apply to the caliber... and to muddy the waters a little further, what ATF or let's say the post office considers as the gun, is the serial numbered part. On an AR that would be the lower. Whether USPSA and the ATF and USPS all see eye to eye on that definition of the gun.... I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 (edited) SO much easier to score. There are valid arguments on both sides, but this one is just plain silly. Matches, especially big ones, are scored by entering all hits and times onto a scoresheet and then into a computer - not calculating by hand or with a calculator. Actually, it's not silly. having scored one of these yesterday, I didn't even have to look at the number of A's, C's, etc. I didn't have to beat my RO's up about totaling the hits, because they don't have to write down the hits. They would just go from target to target calling any penalties (not neutralized, not hit, not engaged, etc, so it's way faster for RO's as well. I didn't have to care whether this target was a rifle target or a pistol target. I just had to look for any applicable penalties, note them or the lack thereof, key in the time and hit enter. Way, WAY faster to score, even on ezws. Edited October 3, 2011 by wgnoyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 SO much easier to score. There are valid arguments on both sides, but this one is just plain silly. Matches, especially big ones, are scored by entering all hits and times onto a scoresheet and then into a computer - not calculating by hand or with a calculator. Not sure how many IMGA matches you've shot, or matches run using Time Plus scoring. Only the time and applicable bonuses and penalties are entered into the scoring system, not hits on target. Regardless of the size of the match. In fact some of the biggest time plus ones may have a couple RO's scoring as they go. The stage may be completed scored within a second or two of the shooter firing their last shot. The possible issues on target are signicantly less than for a HF scored match. If there are two D's on the target it doesn't matter if they are near the line. Target is good. The only possible issues come from a single hit target that may or may not be an A, or if there is a close hit no a NS. The scoring itself if much quicker and entry into the computer is much quicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 (edited) ^^^ and considering all the moaning and groaning I read here about the scoring program at the Ozark 3 gun match going "tango uniform", I am now even more inclined to go with a scoring system that can be punched in by hand with a calculator...time plus it is ...or position ranking based off of time plus. And worst case scenario...I would be writing in scores on a table/graph/chart like form with a ball point pen. I have heard that there is a time plus option in EZWinscore, but I have to still look it up for myself and see it and dabble with it with my own two eyes first. Edited October 3, 2011 by Chills1994 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I hope the weather is good for the match. I hope everyone has a great time, no one gets hurt, and that everyone shoots to his or her potential. I will be shooting in the division that I think will be the most enjoyable for me to shoot in, and I look forward to shooting against the best possible field of competitors available. I am excited to have such great people to shoot with and against. The rules for this match allow major to score differently than minor, nearly everyone takes advantage of this when it comes to pistol, so people shoot 40's instead of 9's. If someone wants to chamber an AR in some other caliber to pick up a few more points with their C hits then good for them. We can debate the merits of the rules (in the rules section) to no end, the same for the scoring, but the rules for this match are not going to change. If you want to bring about changes to the rules, it may be a better use of your efforts to start another thread in the rules section or petition USPSA directly through your area director. I know that my hard working area director is always open to the suggestions from the membership, and wants people to call him late at night, and early in the morning or on holidays to discuss these issues at great length. Let me find his cel phone number....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Religious Shooter wrote: Given that the folks behind the 300 BLK has put a $10K bounty on the Nationals title. I'm sure you will see a lot of the pro/sponsored shooters switch. HUH!? I saw a video on YouTube of a top shooter hosing down some stages at a local match with that exact caliber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Payne Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Are stages or round counts posted anywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I have heard that there is a time plus option in EZWinscore, but I have to still look it up for myself and see it and dabble with it with my own two eyes first. There is, and it works well. Dinger is that output to USPSA.org is not yet supported. I made a scoresheet, and we have used them at the last 4 matches. I can score 4 stages for 25 shooters by myself with verifiable results in about 30 minutes total. Anyone who wants the scoresheet, drop me a note and I'll send it along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trail3 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Stages are up on the USPSA web site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perforator Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Stages are up on the USPSA web site. http://www.nroi.org/nationals/images/MG%202011%20stages%20090111MV.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truegent2004 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Ok the way I add it up it comes to 149 pistol 163 rifle 112 bird shot 7 slugs and 8 rounds of shotgun or pistol. Minor adding error on stage 5 description as the round count should equal 46 not 45 That American shooters place is still accepting ammo shipments right?? Curious to know the distances on rifle and slug targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickpony Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Stages look like fun. Looking forward to a good time! Hope we have some 600+ yard shots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trail3 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Usually at Desert Sportsman the longest bays they have are out to 360 yds. Unless they added some depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickpony Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Usually at Desert Sportsman the longest bays they have are out to 360 yds. Unless they added some depth. Yeah, I know... Just wishing Maybe they could have some 150 yard slug targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trail3 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I think they have a match with those kind of shots.....MGM Ironman! LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Payne Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Going over the rules, just be be clear it states 8+1 for loaded start. So after the beep you may load more rounds correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Going over the rules, just be be clear it states 8+1 for loaded start. So after the beep you may load more rounds correct? I thought USPSA was always 9 total no more or your in Open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigS. Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Tactical and limited division shotguns have a maximum capacity rule of 8 in the tube. you can use a spacer plug to limit the capacity or use a 8rd tube. what Iam not sure of is if your gun holds more in the tube than 8 get you bumped to open? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Tactical and limited division shotguns have a maximum capacity rule of 8 in the tube. you can use a spacer plug to limit the capacity or use a 8rd tube. what Iam not sure of is if your gun holds more in the tube than 8 get you bumped to open? It can hold a 100 but if you load more than 8 good luck against Clint and Jerry. It's best to plug or call Notdic for an 8 rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casman Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Tactical and limited division shotguns have a maximum capacity rule of 8 in the tube. you can use a spacer plug to limit the capacity or use a 8rd tube. what Iam not sure of is if your gun holds more in the tube than 8 get you bumped to open? To paraphrase Andy when I asked him for this clarification at Blue Ridge, just plug it and it's not going to be an issue. The RO's have better things to do than try to keep track of how many rounds have been loaded in the tube. Super easy way to plug your 9rnd tube to 8 is, cut the crimp off a spent hull and put it in the tube in front of the spring with the case head at the rear. Just like if the shell were loaded in the tube normally, but in front of the mag spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Stages are rough-no target numbers. St 12 has 4 classics but no reference to engage w/rifle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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