Heavy Metal rifle - JP LRP-07 or LWRC REPR?

[MarcO]

In trying to understand your issue with JP, they did not make available to you at your convenience parts that they did not originally manufacture and no longer carried in their stock, with one of those parts being significantly redesigned by the original manufacturer to correct a defect. In both instances they did however direct you to the appropriate manufacturer to resolve the issue...is this correct?

They sold me a rifle that they manufactured. The rifle on two occasions broke and would not operate. They would not lend me any assistance in finding a solution to the problem. The direct quote I got from the customer service rep on both occasions was "We don't use those guns anymore - you'll have to call them". There was absolutely no guidance or assistance in finding a solution. I had to find my own.

Bushmaster (who didn't make the parts either) went to a great deal of effort on both occasions to find the parts and send them to me.

After spending over $2200.00 dollars for one of their rifles I feel entitled to a little more than "we can't help you - no discussion allowed" when their products fail.

Don't try to turn this into my being a whiny customer with unrealistic expectations, all I wanted was help in finding a solution. They're customer service rep couldn't take the time to try and help me and I chose not to escalate this to Johns level. You're the one touting their customer service in an earlier post, and my experiences in purchasing anything from them has always been positive. These were my first experiences with a product that failed.

I was still considering buying another rifle from them and upon reflection decided not to based on these two experiences. End of story.

Edited November 22, 2010 by MarcO

[smokshwn]

In trying to understand your issue with JP, they did not make available to you at your convenience parts that they did not originally manufacture and no longer carried in their stock, with one of those parts being significantly redesigned by the original manufacturer to correct a defect. In both instances they did however direct you to the appropriate manufacturer to resolve the issue...is this correct?

Don't try to turn this into my being a whiny customer with unrealistic expectations, all I wanted was help in finding a solution. They're customer service rep couldn't take the time to try and help me and I chose not to escalate this to Johns level. You're the one touting their customer service in an earlier post, and my experiences in purchasing anything from them has always been positive. These were my first experiences with a product that failed.

I wasn't turning it into anything, simply trying to point out that after several years it is entirely reasonable that manufacturers of specialty products may no longer have parts on hand for outdated product lines they are no longer producing, leaving them with the only option being to refer you to the original source for the parts. As to offering you no help, by your own account JP's customer service pointed you to Bushmaster on both occasions, and this was ultimately the solution...correct?

With respect to touting JP's customer service I will certainly continue to do so as it is a long dry road to finding negative opinions about either their products or customer service.

Good luck on your purchase with LWRC.

[DMAC]

Sorry to hear about your issues with JP.

Good luck with your LWRC!

I have both a CTR-02 and LRP-07.

It's like having a smokin' hot wife and a supermodel girl friend, even if I am the ugliest dude on the block!

[jaredr]

I have both a CTR-02 and LRP-07.

It's like having a smokin' hot wife and a supermodel girl friend, even if I am the ugliest dude on the block!

I genuinely laughed out loud at that one - that's comedy gold right there!

[Wild Gene]

Different rifle, but I have the LWRC M6A3, and absolutely love that rifle.

[Jesse Tischauser]

Last time I looked it was the JP Rocky Mountain 3 Gun Match not the LWRC Rocky Mountain 3 Gun Match. That and I don't think you can beat the JP rifles for fit, finish, and fun.

[bigbrowndog]

11.25 pounds is a bit heavy, for a naked unloaded HM rifle.(20") The only Geisselle trigger I've ever had gouged a groove into my hard chromed bolt carrier, thru the hard chrome. Now it could have been a faulty carrier, but either way, neither are in my rifle now. Both have been replaced with JP parts.

Trapr

[TruePunisher]

When I worked at a retail gun shop I would get customers that would come in and ask "What is more gooder, gun A or gun B?" Then I would talk about the reason I would suggest gun A over gun B. Occasionally a co-worker would give their reasons for liking gun A as well. Then the conversation would be complete and the customer would say something to the effect of "Well, those are all very good points, but I think I am going to go with gun B because blah, blah, blah reason." I didn't care because it was their choice, I just thought it was hilarious that they even asked because their mind was already made up.

This reminds me of that type of situation. I'm not slamming what you are saying or anything and it makes no nevermind to me what you purchase, hopefully you are happy with your LWRC, but I wouldn't have turned the thread into a conversation about JP's (a site sponsor and Ambassador to the sport) "bad" customer service. Sorry you had a bad experience. If I see you at a match I wouldn't mind checking out your REPR as I have yet to see one and they look cool in the pictures I've seen.

And boom goes the dynamite.

[BigLucky]

I shot my first match with my new REPR last weekend and really loved it. I had some problems, but mostly my own fault, running a brandy new rifle basically dry. My first stage was a long range stage with Larue targets at 480 yards and I hit all 3 in 4 shots.

[-=VILLAMOR=-]

Sorry to hear about your issues with JP.

Good luck with your LWRC!

I have both a CTR-02 and LRP-07.

It's like having a smokin' hot wife and a supermodel girl friend, even if I am the ugliest dude on the block!

I nearly fell out of my chair laughing. There had been times that the wife has accused me of having an affair with my LRP-07.

Sorry to hear about your experience with JP Enterprise. I personally always had very good experience with the JP Crew. And John Paul himself would go out of his way for anyone. I will always support JP as they have been, and continue to be, a very good supporter of our sport.

[MarcO]

When I worked at a retail gun shop I would get customers that would come in and ask "What is more gooder, gun A or gun B?" Then I would talk about the reason I would suggest gun A over gun B. Occasionally a co-worker would give their reasons for liking gun A as well. Then the conversation would be complete and the customer would say something to the effect of "Well, those are all very good points, but I think I am going to go with gun B because blah, blah, blah reason." I didn't care because it was their choice, I just thought it was hilarious that they even asked because their mind was already made up.

This reminds me of that type of situation. I'm not slamming what you are saying or anything and it makes no nevermind to me what you purchase, hopefully you are happy with your LWRC, but I wouldn't have turned the thread into a conversation about JP's (a site sponsor and Ambassador to the sport) "bad" customer service. Sorry you had a bad experience. If I see you at a match I wouldn't mind checking out your REPR as I have yet to see one and they look cool in the pictures I've seen.

And boom goes the dynamite.

I apologize for turning this into a perceived JP bashing, I didn't intend for it to evolve this way.

I really hadn't made up my mind when I initially posted my question.

After reading some of the early comments I decided to go with the JP, and placed my current (and problematic) JP 308 rifle up for sale locally. It was while explaining the problems I had to a prospective buyer (I won't hide problems with things that I sell) that brought back my frustrations with trying to get parts for the rifle. And then I walked into a gun store and they had a REPR that was on hold for someone else but that I was allowed to examine. I changed my mind at that point.

In my daily professional life as a pharmacist I have to explain to people all the reasons why they don't get whatever they want whenever they want it. If the doctor says no, I have to explain and help craft a solution. If their insurance doesn't pay for their $5,000.00 cancer drug I have to explain why and then try to help them find a drug that is covered, or refer them to a manufacturer program that will assist them in getting what they need. While I may not cause the problem I seek to help craft a solution for them.

I unfairly expected this same level of assistance from the JP phone rep. I could have asked to escalate this to a supervisor or John himself. I did not. I didn't really give them a chance to help me because I said OK and then went about attempting to find my own solution.

Anyway, I respect the way they support our sport and have owned a number of their rifles dating back to 1994 when I bought my first one.

Edited November 24, 2010 by MarcO

[Kyle O]

In my daily professional life as a pharmacist I have to explain to people all the reasons why they don't get whatever they want whenever they want it.

Hey, I'm a pharmacist too, and can relate to your view. As a store owner, I too go above and beyond to offer a higher level of customer service. I also know that from time to time my employees don't offer the same service as I do. Of course I like them too, but it's a fact that they don't have the same investment in the business as I.

I had a problem with my first and only JP, and after an email, John himself called me back in 5 minutes, and made it good immediately.

I feel your reasoning, and it's your decision. But, I frown deeply when someone makes a decision about my business based on anything that I didn't get a chance to make right personally.

[rsilvers]

300 AAC BLACKOUT should qualify for this. 30 round capacity in an 5.56mm-sized rifle. It can make a 320 PF in almost any length barrel.

[jaredr]

welcome to the board Rob, looking forward to the 300 blackout uppers shipping.

edited because I can't spell

Edited November 30, 2010 by jaredr

[ken hebert]

as per the 300 blk webiste:

300 BLK, 123gn MC 2315 ft/s out of a 16" barrel. thats a PF of 284, and that dont make major.

now, if there is some additional data supporting cartridge velocities in longer barrels...

Edited November 30, 2010 by ken hebert

[gunther]

You've got to use the 175gr bullets going 1900fps to make major PF in a 16 in barrel.

[colt22man]

I've got a LWRC REPR 16 inch barrel. This is the second op rod gun I've owned. I am amazed with the performance. I am not shooting heavy metal, just having fun but I find recoil very manageable, accuracy is 1 MOA (100 yds)& I'm using a Aimpoint M4s with a 3X magnifier, nothing exactly highly precise. Shot recovery is very fast and again recoil just seems gentle. I have nothing against the JP rifles, I'd love to have one. But when I tear my LWRC down, the colt carrier group is just like spanking new. No powder residue, no residual's of any kind anywhere. We're talking 2 absolutely wonderful rifles, why not just have one of each in the safe.

[Alaskapopo]

Two words to consider

CUSTOMER SERVICE

JP will kick LWRC's ass all day long.

9x23guy has a LWRC and they have treated him very good in the customer service department. I will let him post more details on it later. What is your actual dealings with LWRC to make you think differently? Are you basing this on how good of an experience you have had with JP and don't think anyone else can match them or did you have a negative experience with LWRC? Personally I am considering a .308 rifle and I am going to go with the new Larue PredatOBR. JP is nice but they are wanting 3200 for it vs 3000 for the Larue and the JP weighs more than the Larue by a pound. Plus I have always had good luck with Larue products and their service.

Pat

Edited February 3, 2012 by Alaskapopo

[Alaskapopo]

After considerable thought and introspection, I have changed my mind and gone ahead and ordered an REPR. My primary reason was a less than satisfactory experience with JP customer service on two separate occasions and how they handled these problems with one of their rifles.

I have been using one of their early 308 match rifles for about 6 years. This rifle was purchased directly from JP and was built on one of the Bushmaster/RRA early upper and lower receivers. In 2007, the extractor on the rifle failed and I contacted JP to order a replacement. The service person told me that they didn't carry any parts for those rifles anymore since they were using another platform and I would need to contact bushmaster. No offer to assist me find the part - nothing. After a considerable amount of time calling and begging both bushmaster and RRA I was able to get RRA to send me an extractor.

Last summer while preparing for a match, the tail on the bolt carrier broke. I understand this was a common problem with the early guns and that they had to change their design as a result. I again called JP and was politely told they couldn't help me and to call bushmaster. Even though Bushmaster has not made this particular style rifle for a number of years they took the time to find a solution and were kind enough to replace the part at no charge but required me to sent the upper in so the gun could be headspaced. They were basically honoring the warranty of another manufacturer who just happened to use their parts.

I have another JP rifle that I purchased in 1995 that has worked like a champ all these years with no problem, and have never had an issue when contacting them for information on purchasing a rifle. Their products are good and they deliver on time. That being said, their after service in these two instances was terrible. I did not purchase the rifle from bushmaster or RRA, I purchased it from JP. To be told I'm on my own when the rifle fails is completely unacceptable. An offer of assistance in finding the right parts, assistance of any kind other than telling me to "call Bushmaster" would have gone a long way and saved me time and effort.

Bottom line, in both of these situations, JP did not stand behind their product even to the point of assisting me in finding a solution. So I won't be buying my new rifle from them. Not sure about any future purchases, but I will have to think long and hard before I purchase another rifle from them. If I do it will be one of their proprietary products so that they will not be able to pawn off any problems on their suppliers.

Thanks for everyones input. Based on most everyone's input I almost went ahead and bought the JP, but on reflection decided not to.

Regards

What happened to you for lack of a better word sucks and is unacceptable. If JP was content to use parts or base rifles from manufactures like Bushmaster then they should stand behind those guns and deal with contacting Bushmaster for you. Their approach in your case was unacceptable in my opinion. It would have been different if you bought a Bushmaster rifle and then added JP parts yourself or sent it to JP for customization. JP stamped their name on this rifle and they need to stand behind it. I bet JP knows better than to deal with Bushmaster now though. That company could turn gold into lead like they did with the Magpul Massad.

Pat

Edited February 3, 2012 by Alaskapopo

[Stlhead]

It does not matter how fast the 300 blk is squirting out the pills, it will still not meet the requirements for Heavy Metal at most matches. most rules state 308 win or 30- 06.