Spending more on the match fee than my Chrono

[Rob D]

I had to switch powders after having a hard time finding titegroup, so to get ready for A5 my Dad and I worked up loads seperately in two different states, on two seperate "Shooting Chrony's." We both shoot 147gr J&K Bullets and were both using Solo 1000. Both of us got readings that ranged from 870-920fps while testing our loads at the range. I didn't worry about making PF at all because the load averaged around 132PF.

The Chrono was our 4th stage friday morning. Our loads clocked from 810-845fps, averaging out to 122 power factor. In retrospect, betting the outcome of a match the we spent so much to shoot on a $79 chronograph was just plain stupid on our part. My Dad flew up from Oklahoma to shoot this match with me, so we were both pretty bummed about the results. I guess I need to invest in a more accurate chronograph, but I wanted to let people know what happened to us before they decide to save a few bucks.

[Pro2AInPA]

That SUCKS!

[Corey]

before you blame the chrono, were the weather conditions at the time of testing and the actual match the same? 10-15 degrees difference with some powders can make a big difference. either way, that really sucks

[SDM]

I would shoot that load through a third chrono just to see which one was off. Last year at the A8, I had a PF of either 127 or 129 using Blazer Brass in my G17. The other 6 or 7 times that combo has been checked it was around 137.

[Sarge]

before you blame the chrono, were the weather conditions at the time of testing and the actual match the same? 10-15 degrees difference with some powders can make a big difference. either way, that really sucks

+1 Cheap chronos work great. Solo1000 on the other hand I found to be way to temp sensitive for me to keep screwing around with.

[CocoBolo]

I would shoot that load through a third chrono just to see which one was off. Last year at the A8, I had a PF of either 127 or 129 using Blazer Brass in my G17. The other 6 or 7 times that combo has been checked it was around 137.

Interesting my loads at that match Area 8 last year on Sunday matched what my Crono said at 171pf. I loaded 9 mm for my Marine Son in law he shot the match and again the crono matched at 131pf. I'm using a CED Pro Crono. I recall everyone was whinning about the hot weather, what hot weather it was 105 when I got on the plane in Texas.

No score is a bummer, sucks dead bears, I aways worry about it. I went to Gator once and I bumped my load so I would be sure to make major, it did 189pf and I had a bad match because the gun was very violent. But then I won the match gun in the drawing so it was a good trip.

It is very nice that you and your dad had some quality time together doing something you both enjoyed, and that was worth more than the match fee and the crono price.

[Caspian_45]

The A5 chrono matched my chrono EXACTLLY. Vel average was 1025 at the match and at home. VV N320 and BBI 130's. I have the same chrono as the matches use.

Try chronoing the SAME load at different times of the day. Unless you are using infared screens the changing position of the sun will affect the reading. Also try shooting some proven (ie: factory) loads across the chrono.

Sorry to hear 'bout your troubles.

[Rob D]

before you blame the chrono, were the weather conditions at the time of testing and the actual match the same? 10-15 degrees difference with some powders can make a big difference. either way, that really sucks

before you blame the chrono, were the weather conditions at the time of testing and the actual match the same? 10-15 degrees difference with some powders can make a big difference. either way, that really sucks

+1 Cheap chronos work great. Solo1000 on the other hand I found to be way to temp sensitive for me to keep screwing around with.

Not sure exactly what conditions my dad chrono'd his rounds in, but mine were nearly identical to the match conditions. If anything, it was maybe 5-10 degrees warmer at the match, which should have caused increased pressures if anything, right? Maybe we just got unlucky and got two defective units somehow. My Dad just ordered a CED chrono, so I'll report back when he gets the chance to try some loads on that one. When using my Dad's chrono in the past, I've had some little variations due to the sun being in odd positions, but I didn't even think twice going into this match since the data I had from testing the load myself was identical to what my Dad got 900 miles away.

We did have a lot of fun, and a big thanks to the guys who ran A5. The match was top notch. I'll most likely be coming back next year with some better ammo.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Rob D

[Corey]

MOST powders get hotter as it warms up, but some do get slower with warm temps, Solo 1000 being one of them I believe. def try to test the same batch of ammo with the new chrono when it comes in. also maybe check your batteries in the old one? worn out batteries may give dif readings than fresh ones. also make sure lighting conditions are the same as well (ideally in a box with IR screens like at a match). lighting or a lack of can throw off readings as well.

[Sarge]

which should have caused increased pressures if anything, right? mo.

Solo1000 is reverse temp sensitive. As it gets warmer it slows down. I have a thread on here where I tested some. After laying in the sun they started dropping in pf. I think 5-10 degrees cost me maybe 3pf points.

I see that you were shooting for 132 pf. I don't like to go below 135 for these same reasons. Plus, so far my pro chrono digital has been within 1 pf of the Big match

CED's.

It can be tricky to dial in. My solution was to first go to a stable powder(N320). Then chrono it in the sun, cloudy days, cool days, warm days etc, even rainy days.

[kmitchl]

I almost got burned at an IDPA chrono stage using inverse temp sensitive powder. The way the match was organized you shot a stage, loaded a fresh mag and went to the chrono with a round in the chamber. I needed to make 694 fps with a 180 gr bullet for ESP. The first shot across the chrono was 600. The next two were OK so I passed. The hot barrel and the soak time with inverse temp powder almost put me out of the game. Something to consider.

[twodownzero]

I guess I don't feel bad about "winning" the chrono stage on my squad, then. I got 179 PF!

[Rob D]

Solo1000 is reverse temp sensitive. As it gets warmer it slows down. I have a thread on here where I tested some. After laying in the sun they started dropping in pf. I think 5-10 degrees cost me maybe 3pf points.

I see that you were shooting for 132 pf. I don't like to go below 135 for these same reasons. Plus, so far my pro chrono digital has been within 1 pf of the Big match

CED's.

It can be tricky to dial in. My solution was to first go to a stable powder(N320). Then chrono it in the sun, cloudy days, cool days, warm days etc, even rainy days.

That's interesting. I'm going to get some data from a 3rd chrono on a hot day to compare. Either way, I'm never going to a match with my load clocking below 135pf again. Lesson learned.

[Rob D]

Just an update here. My dad clocked his loads with his Shooting Chrony and his new $200 CED chrono side by side and there was no variation. I apologize to the nice people who make the shooting chrony as the problem does seem to be with the reverse temp-sensitive nature of solo. He moved the load from 3.4gr to 3.6 gr of Solo, and with the increase in temperature(closer to 90 degrees now, and the match was around 80) since the match, even the new load came out right at 124pf. I'm going to load my match rounds at 3.7gr for the Illinois Sectional, but those should be around 140pf come winter. Bummer.

[twodownzero]

I'm pretty surprised that you didn't make minor at 3.4. What kind of gun are you using and what COAL?

Mine make minor with room to spare at 3.5 grains and 1.120" out of a 5" gun.

Edited August 11, 2010 by twodownzero

[JThompson]

Just an update here. My dad clocked his loads with his Shooting Chrony and his new $200 CED chrono side by side and there was no variation. I apologize to the nice people who make the shooting chrony as the problem does seem to be with the reverse temp-sensitive nature of solo. He moved the load from 3.4gr to 3.6 gr of Solo, and with the increase in temperature(closer to 90 degrees now, and the match was around 80) since the match, even the new load came out right at 124pf. I'm going to load my match rounds at 3.7gr for the Illinois Sectional, but those should be around 140pf come winter. Bummer.

80???? I dunno which A5 you went to..... lol It was a hell of a lot hotter than that.

[SA Friday]

Just an update here. My dad clocked his loads with his Shooting Chrony and his new $200 CED chrono side by side and there was no variation. I apologize to the nice people who make the shooting chrony as the problem does seem to be with the reverse temp-sensitive nature of solo. He moved the load from 3.4gr to 3.6 gr of Solo, and with the increase in temperature(closer to 90 degrees now, and the match was around 80) since the match, even the new load came out right at 124pf. I'm going to load my match rounds at 3.7gr for the Illinois Sectional, but those should be around 140pf come winter. Bummer.

I'm confused here. You are saying a 10 degree temp difference took you from 132pf to 122pf and then a .2gr increase in charge with another temp change only took it up 2pf. I think there is more going on then temp sensitivity here. It could be a powder lot change in there too, or about a half dozen other factors. 10pf from 10 degrees is a hell of a swing for a pistol powder with no other factors involved. I've gone through quite a bit of Solo over the last two years and have yet to see a temp sensitivity swing like this. From 20 degrees to 90 degrees, I haven't seen enough swing for me to go minor from 135pf.

[SA Friday]

Whoa, serious BE forum wierdness going on when I posted...

Edited August 11, 2010 by SA Friday

[AzShooter]

I learned from my mold manufacturer to do my chronographing on the hottest days of the year. That will give you the most reliable reading. Great here in Phoenix and it gives me about three months to develop my loads.

If I don't get to chrono in the summer I push for a 135 pf throughout the rest of the year. 175 if I'm trying for major.

[JeffWard]

I'm pretty surprised that you didn't make minor at 3.4. What kind of gun are you using and what COAL?

Mine make minor with room to spare at 3.5 grains and 1.120" out of a 5" gun.

I shoot 147gr Precision Bullets (Moly/Lead) over 3.4gr of Solo 1000 at 1.125". 5" M&P Pro.

My average velocity is around 920fps I think??? Right at 135PF. A safe margin for me, but still very controllable.

Jeff

Edited August 11, 2010 by JeffWard

[FN fan]

Ouch, I have a solo 1000 and love it, but always assume a little error.

[Rob D]

Hopefully you guys are right and something else is going on here. I've really like solo besides my little issue at A5. It's way less smokey than Titegroup behind the cast lead bullets I shoot. 3.4gr at 1.125 OAL chrono'd at 132.5pf(right around 900fps) for me when I tested before the match, and they came in at 122pf at A5. I'm shooting J&K Hardcast lead bullets out of a G34 with a lonewolf barrel. I've since bumped the load up to 3.6, and I'm going to go chrono today in the middle of the afternoon. I'll report back afterward.

[John Z Sr]

I would shoot that load through a third chrono just to see which one was off. Last year at the A8, I had a PF of either 127 or 129 using Blazer Brass in my G17. The other 6 or 7 times that combo has been checked it was around 137.

I went barely 165.1 last year at chrono at A8 and 2 days before was pushing 171 on my chrono, same load and basic weather conditions

[Rob D]

Clocked 3.6gr solo today in 70-80 degree weather(god I love this Wisconsin summer business) and got an average velocity of about 950fps coming out to 139pf. My Dad said he clocked the same load in Oklahoma last week and was coming out at 805fps. I'm guessing it was between 90 and 100 degrees there at the time, maybe even hotter. Does this sound like something else is going on or is Solo actually that temp sensitive? I'm baffled.

[jar]

Clocked 3.6gr solo today in 70-80 degree weather(god I love this Wisconsin summer business) and got an average velocity of about 950fps coming out to 139pf. My Dad said he clocked the same load in Oklahoma last week and was coming out at 805fps. I'm guessing it was between 90 and 100 degrees there at the time, maybe even hotter. Does this sound like something else is going on or is Solo actually that temp sensitive? I'm baffled.

Were his loaded from the same lot of powder? Solo 1000 has HUGE lot to lot variation in pistol applications. The lot I have takes 3.7gr to make 134PF for me with the same bullet, OAL, and gun as JeffWard; his only takes 3.4. Every time you change lots, you really need to start at the minimum and work up again.