USPSA Shooting Tips Video

[Steven Cline]

Ok, I posted this to some other forums where the big dogs typically don't run. Now I take the plunge.

If you recognize anything as that which someone else coined, please identify so I can give credit.

If you don't want credit or maybe I butchered your tip, please send me a PM to remove it.

If you have critique, please keep it positive. But recall many of these tips are for beginners, not for advanced shooters.

Many thanks in advance.

Edited June 14, 2010 by Steven Cline

[boz1911]

Nicely done. Should be helpful to a lot of newer shooters.

[XD Niner]

Great collection of tips for newbies. Thanks for putting this together.

[Supermoto]

Nice video,

can you explain the accuracy bias on short course and speed on long ones? I alway figured, on long courses, which usually have low HF, the bias is on points. If you have to make up a shot A for C or A for D, you can increase your HF on a field course, but rarely on a shot speed course

Edited June 15, 2010 by Supermoto

[Steven Cline]

Nice video,

can you explain the accuracy bias on short course and speed on long ones? I alway figured, on long courses, which usually have low HF, the bias is on points. If you have to make up a shot A for C or A for D, you can increase your HF on a field course, but rarely on a shot speed course

I believe it best explained like this:

On short courses of fire everyone's time shrinks. This shrinking is magnified by the nature of short courses (such as little to no movement, smaller transitions, mandatory reloads) so in the formula S/T (score divided by time)when the variable of T(ime) is not as vast in short courses as in long courses, maximize the S(core).

I believe the Classifiers tend to favor near perfect if not perfect scores, easily higher than 95%. (editted to remove bad math, and provide better insight missing from video: ) A miss costs as much as 15 pnts. On a 60 pnt course of fire that is 25% of the score. The beginner will never be able to get a time which is fast enough to make up for the miss penalty and lost pnts for no hit.

Also, consider the effect on time for a miss on steel or called/discovered miss- that's huge time loss when you have to make it up. You can always shoot a higher HF by getting your first shot to score instead of relying on a make up.

An unspoken motive may have been to slow newbies (me?) down on classifiers where we sometimes attempt to burn it down and instead simply crash and burn.

On long courses, the T(ime) can vary much more (reloads, movement, course management) if everyone is shooting the same "acceptable" range of score but significant time savings can be found, the lesser time will carry the day. While everyone is shooting into same score range, there are big gains to be garnered in saving time.

I wonder if I should have been more specific in relating that on long courses it's still shoot accurate, but find ways to shave time BUT that time is not shaved by slinging shots all over the place. It's found more in course management.

What do you think?

Edited June 17, 2010 by Steven Cline

[Dancin Dan]

Some great tips for the new shooter and good review for better shooters.

[Dan Hefta]

Well done Steve, I will put this link on my clubs website (for our new guys to watch)

[CocoBolo]

Nice video,

can you explain the accuracy bias on short course and speed on long ones? I alway figured, on long courses, which usually have low HF, the bias is on points. If you have to make up a shot A for C or A for D, you can increase your HF on a field course, but rarely on a shot speed course

I believe it best explained like this:

On short courses of fire everyone's time shrinks. This shrinking is magnified by the nature of short courses (such as little to no movement, smaller transitions, mandatory reloads) so in the formula S/T (score divided by time)when the variable of T(ime) is not as vast in short courses as in long courses, maximize the S(core).

I believe the Classifiers tend to favor near perfect if not perfect scores, easily higher than 95%. I find support for this in Practical Shooting when Brian Enos wrote about he and Rob Leatham shooting the El Pres without the turn. While Brian shot .1 faster than Rob, Rob's one point higher score was sufficient to carry the day. Rob shot a 58 in 4.3 for a 13.4884, while Brian's 57 in 4.2 was a 12.1277 which is 1.3607 less or 89.9% of Rob's HF. Rob traded one pnt for .1 second and gained 10%

An unspoken motive may have been to slow newbies (me?) down on classifiers where we sometimes attempt to burn it down and instead simply crash and burn.

On long courses, the T(ime) can vary much more (reloads, movement, course management) if everyone is shooting the same "acceptable" range of score but significant time savings can be found, the lesser time will carry the day. While everyone is shooting into same score range, there are big gains to be garnered in saving time.

I wonder if I should have been more specific in relating that on long courses it's still shoot accurate, but find ways to shave time BUT that time is not shaved by slinging shots all over the place. It's found more in course management.

What do you think?

Steve the short course versus long course is all about the math. Making it simple at a 10 HF on a 160 pt stage and a short course 60 pt stage with a 10 HF introduce a mike (15 points lost) on the long course you are at 91% but on the short course you dropped to 76.6%. Point is you should always shoot for good hits, but in the case of a long course making up a C hit is definatley going to cost more time that it is worth, on the other hand on a short course of fire it may well be worth the time it takes to make up a poor hit.

Don't tell me to shoot a long course fast, as I only got one speed as fast as I can make good hits, if I kick in the nitrious its going to be crash and burn, I might even do the try thing and that would be the kiss of death. Just one shot at a time no thinking see what I need to see break the shot. Shot 16 classifiers last month the best way to tank one is to look at it and say I'm going to burn this thing down, only burning is when you crash.

I think it would be better to say take the time you need to make the hits on the short courses it pays off.

Lately I've been dealing with this illusion of getting better and I find that when you can make a stage flow it is a good run, if that makes any sense.

I like the Video and while there are lots of them I like the free ones best. Good Work and Thanks.

[GForceLizard]

Good video. I need to watch it again in a few months to see if I retained anything. Thanks for the tips.

[Supermoto]

Steven, I agree with that huge gains in time will come from non shooting actions in field course and you have less or none of theses in a short course. But knocking off 1 sec in a speed shoot while harder to do, will pay off more than 1 sec in a field course.

Cocobolo

Long course don't have a HF of 10, they are usually a lot lower, so the points per seconds makes it worth a making up shot, or taking that little extra to get the A

but on a speed shoot with 10hf, Making up a C with a A with a .2 split is going to lower the HF.

Either way, great video. it will definitely help new shooters. great job

[CocoBolo]

Steven, I agree with that huge gains in time will come from non shooting actions in field course and you have less or none of theses in a short course. But knocking off 1 sec in a speed shoot while harder to do, will pay off more than 1 sec in a field course.

Cocobolo

Long course don't have a HF of 10, they are usually a lot lower, so the points per seconds makes it worth a making up shot, or taking that little extra to get the A

but on a speed shoot with 10hf, Making up a C with a A with a .2 split is going to lower the HF.

Either way, great video. it will definitely help new shooters. great job

SuperMoto - You got to get out more, who you shooting with? Here are a few examples from a couple recent USPSA Local Matches at ALSPPC Austin, TX. We have to shoot with the bigDawgs down here.

http://www.alsppc.org

Stage: 3 Stage 3

Place Name No. Class Division Pts Pen Time Hit Fact Stg Pts Stg %

1 Re, Dave 21 GM Open 145 0 11.47 12.6417 150.0000 100.00%

2 Riojas, Kyle 10 A Open 135 0 11.69 11.5483 137.0263 91.35%

3 Stedman, Roy 49 GM Open 146 0 12.76 11.4420 135.7650 90.51%

4 Kane, John 9 B Open 146 0 13.15 11.1027 131.7390 87.83%

Place Name No. Class Division Pts Pen Time Hit Fact Stg Pts Stg %

1 Re, Dave 9 GM Open 127 0 13.52 9.3935 130.0000 100.00%

2 STEDMAN, ROY 34 GM Open 127 0 13.62 9.3245 129.0451 99.27%

Stage: 5 Stage 5--X's on both sides

Place Name No. Class Division Pts Pen Time Hit Fact Stg Pts Stg %

1 STEDMAN, ROY 34 GM Open 153 0 14.72 10.3940 160.0000 100.00%

2 Kane, John 26 A Open 151 0 15.67 9.6362 148.3348 92.71%

Stage: 6 Stage 6

Place Name No. Class Division Pts Pen Time Hit Fact Stg Pts Stg %

1 STEDMAN, ROY 34 GM Open 155 0 15.36 10.0911 160.0000 100.00%

2 WEERS, DAVID 15 GM Limited 149 0 16.07 9.2719 147.0111 91.88%

In the example a 32 round course of fire would be shot all A's in 16 seconds, which is a little tough in reality but not impossible.

[Supermoto]

SuperMoto - You got to get out more, who you shooting with? Here are a few examples from a couple recent USPSA Local Matches at ALSPPC Austin, TX. We have to shoot with the bigDawgs down here.

Really, you're going that route? There are talented shooters all around the country.

but since we are dropping names to make our point.

1 Walsh, Mike 1 M Open 146 0 13.46 10.8470 160.0000 100.00%

2 Bragg, Manny 30 GM Limited 149 0 14.64 10.1776 150.1259 93.83%

160 point stage, still wasn't a long course.

ps, Manny is a awesome instructor and great guy to shoot with

Edited June 16, 2010 by Supermoto

[raz-0]

160 point stage, still wasn't a long course.

By the rules, long is technically anything over 90 points.  You can build a hoser stage that has over 100 points and not a lot of movement that you can burn down pretty fast. Which you probably don't consider  a long course of fire, but technically it is. 

[Supermoto]

160 point stage, still wasn't a long course.

By the rules, long is technically anything over 90 points.  You can build a hoser stage that has over 100 points and not a lot of movement that you can burn down pretty fast. Which you probably don't consider  a long course of fire, but technically it is. 

you are correct, I see stages as high, medium or low hit factor. Not how many targets there are. I apologize for the confusion.

[HICKMAN]

who shoots with who has nothing to do with the video

nice video!!

[CHA-LEE]

Nice video. Thanks for taking the time to put it together

[CocoBolo]

Yes and the point was hits are more important on short courses than long course and its the math, 1 point in a 60 point stage is worth twice as much as it is on a 120 point stage.

Those guys are not imortals and all they got to do is slip a little and an old man like me will catch them, with my 1.7 second first shot I have to shoot the rest a lot faster than they do.

Place Name No. Class Division Pts Pen Time Hit Fact Stg Pts Stg %

1 Re, Dave 9 GM Open 30 0 2.61 11.4943 30.0000 100.00%

2 STEDMAN, ROY 34 GM Open 30 0 2.66 11.2782 29.4360 98.12%

3 Lane, Antoine 58 M Production 28 0 2.77 10.1083 26.3826 87.94%

4 Kane, John 26 A Open 30 0 2.99 10.0334 26.1871 87.29%

5 Mann, Ron 41 C Open 30 0 3.48 8.6207 22.4999 75.00%

6 Marco, Aaron 50 B Limited 30 0 3.60 8.3333 21.7498 72.50%

7 WEERS, DAVID 15 GM Limited 30 0 3.68 8.1522 21.2772 70.92%

Manny is not only a great shooter instruction he is just an all around nice guy.

Ok I defended my point and Steve great video lots of help to lots of folks.

[38supPat]

Pretty good, clean and concise.

You may want to explain some of the apparent contradictions though. Like in one part you say to stay back from the ports but in another you say charge on in there. I know what you are getting at in each case but a newbie might not.

[guns_and_labs]

Nice video, thank you. I'm sure I learned a couple of things - now to the range to see if I can make them happen!

[badchad]

While Brian shot .1 faster than Rob, Rob's one point higher score was sufficient to carry the day. Rob shot a 58 in 4.3 for a 13.4884, while Brian's 57 in 4.2 was a 12.1277 which is 1.3607 less or 89.9% of Rob's HF. Rob traded one pnt for .1 second and gained 10%

Your math is wrong.

57/4.2=13.57

[Del]

Thanks I thought there were some good tips in there

[Steven Cline]

Pretty good, clean and concise.

You may want to explain some of the apparent contradictions though. Like in one part you say to stay back from the ports but in another you say charge on in there. I know what you are getting at in each case but a newbie might not.

Pat,

I attempted to correct that specific misstatement on "get into the port." But...

You are correct, some of the tips can contradict each other. It's more obvious since I was using the same props for making the video. I think I will put a disclaimer in at the beginning of the video.

Another apparent contradiction was stationary shooting targets on one side of the stage stationary (far to near) then charging the targets on the other side of the same stage. Why not charge them too someone might wonder? The answer is stage management. Time was saved that way.

Look for the addition, and thank you for confirming the need.

Steve

[Steven Cline]

While Brian shot .1 faster than Rob, Rob's one point higher score was sufficient to carry the day. Rob shot a 58 in 4.3 for a 13.4884, while Brian's 57 in 4.2 was a 12.1277 which is 1.3607 less or 89.9% of Rob's HF. Rob traded one pnt for .1 second and gained 10%

Your math is wrong.

57/4.2=13.57

doh!

Thanks, I'll correct. I must have ued 4.7 instead of 4.2 (maybe there was turbulance on the flight when I was doing the math - at least that's my story and I'm sticking to it)

And that changes everything, Brian won by shooting 1 pnt less but .1 sec faster...

Edited June 17, 2010 by Steven Cline

[Steven Cline]

Steven, I agree with that huge gains in time will come from non shooting actions in field course and you have less or none of theses in a short course. But knocking off 1 sec in a speed shoot while harder to do, will pay off more than 1 sec in a field course...

Either way, great video. it will definitely help new shooters. great job

Thank you.

Maybe the confusion/conflict is that the advise was given to me as a beginner shooter. I whole-heartedly agree that 1 second help huge in a short course, but at what expense? A beginner trying to shave a second is more likely to shoot all Cs and Ds and take misses. so that the score is destroyed...

In that context, is there real disagreement? For a beginner, get the points?

Steve

[lugnut]

I try to see things in the simplest ways. Time vs points is relatively easy to analyze after the fact. However if you are preparing a COF that has an "estimated" HF of 5 you know that each point costs you .2 secs. If you "estimate" a COF with a HF of 10 then the point is .1 secs. A stage that has a HF around 3- a point is worth .33secs. Simple stuff.

To me (at least when my brain is working) that tells me I can't afford to spend as much time trying to get As on a stage with a high HF as I can in a lower HF stage- all other things being equal. If I'm in production a C costs me 2 points- which means I could have taken .65 seconds extra to get that A and I would have done better if the HF was 3 for the stage. However if I was shooting a stage with a HF of about 10- I would have only less than .2 secs extra to get an A. Same math works for make up shots.

The only thing that matters is the estimated HF- you could have a high HF on a long or short course and well as a low HF on a short or long course. The problem is estimating your HF- that is where I try to make some calculations before I run a COF... since the only HF that really matters is MINE AFTER I SHOOT. I still try to hit As... but I try to be more deliberate on the low HF stage as the points cost more in time. On a 10+ HF stage I shoot faster (in general) and will accept a non perfect sight picture or shot... to a point. It's so damn easy on paper isn't it? LOL