09-09 Lightning And Thunder

[boz1911]

I noticed the stage procedure and RO note don't seem to agree. One states five seconds and the RO note states 6.31. http://www.uspsa.org...fiers/09-09.pdf

Edited September 13, 2013 by sperman
Added Stage Diagram

[Skydiver]

It says 6.31 if turners are used instead of static targets.

[spanky]

It says 6.31 if turners are used instead of static targets.

Right so shouldn't it be 5.31? Since you are allowed a shot .3 sec after time?

Edited June 1, 2010 by spankaveli

[boz1911]

I actually think it's a misprint? I bet it should say 5.3 in the RO notes

[spanky]

I guess maybe it should be 5.3 and not 5.31. I don't know how quick they turn back but I have to assume it takes longer than .01 seconds.

[boz1911]

Guys, I'm trying to determine the par time correctly. 5 or 6 seconds? Makes a huge difference. I assume it's 5 seconds per string with 5.31 being overtime, hence penalties. But by the RO notes the par time is 6 seconds if not using automatic turning type targets with 6.31(?) being overtime. I guess it won't be important until someone sets it up with a 6 second par time. Master here I come!!

Edited June 1, 2010 by boz1911

[LPatterson]

The RO Note is incorrect because with fixed time you are not going to set the timer for what would be an overtime shot. It seems NROI has goofed once again by not proof reading a classifier before publishing.

[pvhendrix]

As in another post by Cha-Lee. I suggest notifing USPSA of errors found... not just posting here.

[Skydiver]

Looks like a correction was made or Jun 4th. It now says 5.31 if not using turners.

I'm still a little confused why I should set the timer for 5.31. Does that then mean that if we use static targets, a shot fired at 5.61 or later is a late shot?

Edited June 7, 2010 by Skydiver

[LPatterson]

Set the par time for 5.00 seconds then use rule 9.4.6.2.

[Skydiver]

Set the par time for 5.00 seconds then use rule 9.4.6.2.

What explanation do I give competitors when they ask why the WSB is not being followed? Should I tell them it's a known error in the WSB?

[spanky]

Set the par time for 5.00 seconds then use rule 9.4.6.2.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but;

Isn't it talking about auto-turners? If you set the auto turners to disappear at 5 seconds instead of 5.3 seconds, you are not following the rules as the rules state shots are allowed up to .3 sec after the par time. the targets should disappear after 5.3 as that is the time in which you are disallowed from engaging as per

Edited June 7, 2010 by spankaveli

[racegun9]

Set the par time for 5.00 seconds then use rule 9.4.6.2.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but;

Isn't it talking about auto-turners? If you set the auto turners to disappear at 5 seconds instead of 5.3 seconds, you are not following the rules as the rules state shots are allowed up to .3 sec after the par time. the targets should disappear after 5.3 as that is the time in which you are disallowed from engaging as per

Most of the timer/auto-turner system's I have seen and worked with, still use a normal timer with an output jack. The output jack sends the turning signal at the start and 5 seconds but usually the electronics, activation solenoid, relays, air cyclinders all combine for a few tenths delay. If you design the system to react super fast it will just rip the targets off. But you have 5 seconds of target's shown plus the turning time (system reaction time you could say, that balance appear and dis-appear). An all visual system that you can see and not have to hear. If you shoot too many shots you get extra hits

when you go down to score.

When you go to an audio start and stop the timer should sound the start and then stop signal at 5 seconds and allow you .3 seconds to have heard the beep and overcome your personal reaction time(Hopefully .15-.25 of a second or better) to stop and not shoot another shot. Of course you lost the same time at the begining and it balances out as well. Overtime penalty shots would start with 5.31

Is it an exact science? Probably not, but its pretty darn close. And I'll take the auto-turners any day over trying to hear the stop beep.

[racegun9]

Set the par time for 5.00 seconds then use rule 9.4.6.2.

What explanation do I give competitors when they ask why the WSB is not being followed? Should I tell them it's a known error in the WSB?

Stage Description:

Set timer to five seconds for all strings.

(This is probably correct)

RO Notes: If turning targets are not used, set timer to

5.31 seconds per 9.4.6.2.

(This is wrong if Stage Description says to set timer to five seconds)

RO Notes: Shoud say something like:

If turning targets are not used, overtime penalty shots should start at

5.31 seconds per 9.4.6.2.

You might avoid this classifier until it's corrected or talk to Sedro and confirm, then make a note

on the WSB that it was corrected per so and so at USPSA office on 6-8-10

[juan]

The buzzer sound is 3/10 of a second long

most timers are set for post beep

so a shot on the beep is still good

[Flexmoney]

Set the par time for 5.00 seconds then use rule 9.4.6.2.

What explanation do I give competitors when they ask why the WSB is not being followed? Should I tell them it's a known error in the WSB?

The notes really are not part of the WSB.

In fact, the diagram isn't really a WSB.

Here is the official dope...

3.2 Written Stage Briefings:

3.2.1 A written stage briefing approved by the Range Master must be posted

at each course of fire prior to commencement of the match. This briefing

will take precedence over any course of fire information published

or otherwise communicated to competitors in advance of the match,

and it must provide the following minimum information:

— Scoring Method:

— Targets (type & number):

— Minimum number of rounds:

— The handgun ready condition:

— Start position:

— Time starts:

— Procedure:

The Procedure says it is a 5 second fixed time.

If you are using an audible Start and Stop (and most everybody is), then simply set the Par time on the timer to 5 seconds.

After the shooter fires a string, look at the timer. If the last shot is greater than 5.30 award them their overtime shot penalty. (per 9.4.6.2)

[Skydiver]

The notes really are not part of the WSB.

In fact, the diagram isn't really a WSB.

Here is the official dope...

Playing Devil's Advocate here:

1) If the diagram is not part of the WSB for classifiers, then can I legally set up all 6 targets on 99-08 Melody Line to be at the same level (e.g. ignore the notes)?

2) When the procedure for a particular classifier like 99-02 Night Moves says engage T1 with 2 rounds each and T2-T5 with one round each, can the shooter then decide which target he considers to be T1 as long as he is consistent through all the strings and not incur any procedurals? Without the diagram present, how will the shooter know which target is T1?

Basically with question 2) I'm asking if we need to take time to translate the procedure in the NCCB into a "walkie" that describes the stage without using a diagram? If so how do we ensure the "walkie" is consistent between clubs?

[Flexmoney]

Whatever.

Pop open your National Classifier Course Book, read the chapter on the front called "Administration of the USPSA Classification Program".

It start like this:

Every possible effort has been made to ensure that

all the stages in this book are "game proof." The courses

have been repeatedly reviewed by many people with

hundreds of years of combined practical shooting and

course design experience. These include Range Officers,

Chief Range Officers, Range Masters, Range Master

Instructors, and the Director of the National Range

Officers Institute. The nature of the project is such that

there are probably undetected errors in spite of all that

effort.

In most cases the intent of the course will be

obvious. USPSA requests that you honor that intent.

[Singlestack]

Shot this one in Open Sunday down 9 points. Looking foward to how it turns out.

[Singlestack]

Shot this one in Open Sunday down 9 points. Looking foward to how it turns out.

9 points down = 90.0000%

[jordonhurd]

Shot this one in Open Sunday down 9 points. Looking foward to how it turns out.

9 points down = 90.0000%

53 points on this last Sunday. CmCalc says 58.8883. I am still a "D" shooter so I will take that.

[jordonhurd]

Shot this one in Open Sunday down 9 points. Looking foward to how it turns out.

9 points down = 90.0000%

53 points on this last Sunday. CmCalc says 58.8883. I am still a "D" shooter so I will take that.

USPSA website shows 58.8888 points. Thats enough to get me into "C" class. Sweet.

[dagger10k]

Shot this one 16 points down today in Limited. Should be just enough to bump me into A.

Edited September 7, 2010 by dagger10k

[Nemesis Lead]

So I shot a 74 out of 90 on this fixed time (3 five second stages) course in L10. Does anyone have any idea what this would be? The classifier calculator shows a result of zero.

I assume that someone somewhere shot a 90 out of 90 and that my score would be a 82%........but I have learned never to assume. ;-)

[WDB]

This one: http://www.cmcalc.com/index.php

has it at 82.2214%