Un-Helpful RO's

[old506]

I thought about putting this in the "Things I hate" Thread but I need some feedback here.

My wife and I have decided to shoot USPSA together, we are doing it as a together thing and it has been a lot of fun gearing up and going to the range together. She is very capable at shooting and safe gun handling, we have been shooting for quite some time together, since we were married. We have never shot at a formal range until just this spring when we decided to join as this is where the local shoots are and it is covered and a controlled setting.

The Problem.

Every time, and I mean every time, we go shoot together she has some RO come up and give her "pointers" and "suggestions" and today it was "constructive criticism". The first dumb RO said to her: "you should move the target closer, you are going to be shooting at someone within a few feet, like the end of the bed. You don't need to practice that far away." Now, she is shooting a Glock 34 with a slide as long as a bridge but I guess he didn't notice that. Just today she had 3 RO's come up at different times. The first one asked if she would be willing to take some "constructive criticism" he then went on to say that her ISO stance was wrong as she should "lock" her elbows and he proceeded to show her his ISO stance unsolicited. He then went on to tell her that she should shoot a "Weaver" as that is a more "acceptable" way to shoot and controls recoil more. I was busy shooting so I missed it when this happened.

I am working on a light load for her 9mm and she had a couple of failures and she handled them just fine, clearing them safely. The next RO asked if he could giver her a few "pointers" and said that he noticed that she was "limp wristing" the pistol (as she was going through the decreasing loads to see how low we could go to make her pistol work). He said that the failures were from her limp wristing the pistol. She said no, that we were working on some light loads. He asked Why? "you can handle 9mm easily, many women can handle a 9mm". He then decided to let me know that a .38 snub nose kicks more than my 1911 and that she can handle a 9mm.

I don't know what to do. I was pissed, she was pissed. She got back in the truck and about said that it is all over and a part of me wanted to have a come to Jesus meeting with them, but I am a Christian so I held back the reigns.

While the RO's were handing out pointers to the "girl" who doesn't know what she is doing, a guy down the line was playing with his pistol while the range was cold and didn't check in prior.

These old farts never once suggested anything to anyone else, I thought that it might be a one time thing but it is quite obvious that it is because she is a woman and they think they know more and need to teach her and in doing so act like know-it-all jerks. This has happened every time, I mean every-time we go to the range. When we say that we are practicing for USPSA one RO said "they just shoot up a bunch of ammo". Today's RO remark was "I don't need to go over there and do that"

Now she feels like everyone is watching her and making her uncomfortable about going to the range and she is right. Let me be clear here, there was nor has there ever been any safety type issue our issues, not once have they mentioned anything about safety or safety related. She is safe. This is "I am the RO and know what I am doing and girls don't" BS.

What do we do?

[Greg Bell]

Have your wife tell them in a sweet as pie voice "unless I'm breaking a posted safety rule I'd prefer not to hear a word from you, Thanks so much"

I think that will be far more effective than anything you could ever say.

[Tom Mainus]

Sounds to me that these "RO's" are just guys at the range you shoot at correct.

Most of these guys have never seen a women at the range before and just assume

that 1. She is a women and doesn't know what she is doing with a firearm.

2. That nobody could possibly know more about firearms than they do, so

it is there job to tell everybody how much they know.

95% of the people out there have no idea what IPSC/USPSA is and they have no

desire to learn. They don't understand us "ammo wasters" and if you are not

shooting their preferred discipline, why bother.

Are their any other IPSC shooters at the club you shoot at? Is this just a

public range, no organized IPSC program? Try to get some other shooters

together to have a practice night. I bet if you get 3 or 4 ipsc shooters at the

range at once, the "Old Farts" would be less likely to confront your wife. Pack

mentality type of thing.

Short of that, try to tell your wife not to let it bother her. She could

probably out shoot all of the old timers easily. Maybe try to find a time at the

range when it is less busy. At our club we don't have any Range Officers per say,

so we can go shoot in a bay by our selves and not be bothered. Good luck to you

and your wife.

Tom

[Micah]

There is nothing wrong with saying "Thanks...but we already have a plan."

[GrumpyOne]

Tell her to tell them next time that her sister, Kay Miculek, taught her how to shoot.

[lugnut]

Say "No hablo Engles". I see people offering bad advice all the time. I'd just keep on smiling and say thanks and then just do what I wanted. I have a good way of ignoring people sometimes.... "I'm sorry, I'm in deep thought right now".

[G-ManBart]

There is nothing wrong with saying "Thanks...but we already have a plan."

Yep, that's about the best you can do.

[shooterbenedetto]

You can also find a better, comfortable and friendlier squad that you and your

wife can shoot with as an alternative if you can.

Edited April 18, 2010 by shooterbenedetto

[old506]

I may need to clarify. These are volunteers that RO on the weekend so they can shoot during the week outside of "public" shooting times. This is a public range with 1k yard, shotgun, practical, plinking, cowboy, etc. etc. We have ignored it and moved on but I am concerned, as she has mentioned, she feels that what she does is being critiqued and looses her focus.

To tell you the honest truth I think she gets a little more attention because she is pretty. I am going to have to take a shotgun to the range to keep the old duffs away!

Anyway, this isn't the way to get ladies into the sport.

[junkie]

Please ask them to step back and allow her to train. She is safe so just splain to em that you get your best advice from master class shooters or some such stuff. That should put them on alert to leave you 2 alone.

Have your matches been this problematic. When I SO or RO for new shooters I try to keep advice to a minimum, but in my quest to be nice and helpfull I may go overboard, other people may be that way as well.

It does seem that the range officers there are a bit over the top though.

[Jeeper]

I notice this behavior pretty much anytime there is a woman at the range. The older guys have to help the poor defenseless female.

[old506]

I think the biggest thing is it is advice from people who are naive to what we are trying to accomplish and are know-it-alls. I think that they assume that when a women shows up she has a pink handled Lady Smith that her husband bought earlier in the day because someone down the street had her purse stolen at the grocery store.

As far as advice goes to a new shooter, I would keep it to a bare minimum outside of safety, of course. At first it is kind of like taking a drink out of a fire hydrant. As time goes on I think that helping is great once a new shooter can break down more information but at first I'm just trying to not do something stupid.

Please ask them to step back and allow her to train. She is safe so just splain to em that you get your best advice from master class shooters or some such stuff. That should put them on alert to leave you 2 alone.

Have your matches been this problematic. When I SO or RO for new shooters I try to keep advice to a minimum, but in my quest to be nice and helpfull I may go overboard, other people may be that way as well.

It does seem that the range officers there are a bit over the top though.

[old506]

Have you ever seen a kid have a big fish on the end of his line and his dad takes away the pole? Kind of like that.

I notice this behavior pretty much anytime there is a woman at the range. The older guys have to help the poor defenseless female.

[Merlin Orr]

Two entirely different chains of thought are possible with someone, however misguided, trying to help.

[Jadeslade]

No one should offer unsolicited advice to anyone. I have had this problem in my family and seen this problem at different ranges like this set up. Basically she needs to have you or someone else check her 6 and keep people away. After a while she will be a known competitive shooter and will be able to practice in relative peace. I understand it breaks her concentration and ability to practice.

[mpeltier]

To tell you the honest truth I think she gets a little more attention because she is pretty.

I think you nailed it on the head with that one. I see it at our range from time to time. There can be 3 women on the range and all the RO's seem to want to "help" the pretty one. My wifes favorite saying is "It hurts to be pretty" and this may be one example of what she means. I would suggest you and your wife get to know the RO's a little better, explain to them what you are there for. If and when you both become familiar faces they will leave you alone. Give it a little time and the new pretty face will wear off and they will find someone else new to bother.

[Joe4d]

I know we try not to lower ourselves to others level , but why waste time being to polite to someone that isnt to you? Gonna come down to being assertive, people like that dont take subtle hints, you are gonna have to be blunt as in "Hey buddy mind your own frikking business" or to answer the "Mind if I give you some advice?" My x would quickly answer yes I do mind.

[redmanfixit]

Please DO NOT QUIT! Don't get discouraged by well meaning fools.

[shred]

Where's Athena Lee when we need her? She's got some stories from working at the range with guys asking her if there's somebody else (a guy) there that they can talk to. "Um, you see that World Champion trophy over there?..."

The best answer I've heard is to out-shoot the geezers. They tend to walk away quietly when shown up. Until then do whatever you can to keep her away from, or at least ignoring the 'advice'.

[GrumpyOne]

How about just hiring someone prettier than her to take all the attention?

[Pat Miles]

Please DO NOT QUIT! Don't get discouraged by well meaning fools.

+1!

CYa,

Pat

[lugnut]

No one should offer unsolicited advice to anyone. I have had this problem in my family and seen this problem at different ranges like this set up. Basically she needs to have you or someone else check her 6 and keep people away. After a while she will be a known competitive shooter and will be able to practice in relative peace. I understand it breaks her concentration and ability to practice.

In general I agree with you. However I usually am open to "some" advice.... heck I wish some of the better shooters would give me more!! That being said, I like to offer help to others when I can.... it's painful to see people struggle with the same things week after week. But I will usually ask them if they would like some help before I open my trap. After being in this sport for a few years I can usually tell when someone is interested in help and when they could care less.

[GrumpyOne]

I've said it before, the only time I will interject when someone is shooting (other than when they ask for help or guidance), is when I'm about to see blood and hear screams. Like the guy or girl who wraps both thumbs around the back of an auto and is getting ready to pull the trigger.

[JThompson]

Get her a shooting shirt and on the back write, "Thanks, but I don't need any advice"

Edited April 18, 2010 by JThompson

[GrumpyOne]

Get her a shooting shirt and on the back write, "Thanks, but I don't need any advice"

+1,000 That'll work!